Viper vs ITG vs Std air box

[rich[182]]

Which mag mate?

July edition of 'Track and Race Cars" pages 41-48, great article, link below is just to their website but no article online
www.trcmagazine.com

 

[len_beach]

If a air box is no better than a IK why then in most cases does a car run slightly lean when a half decent IK is fitted?? Surley this is proof that the rate of air flow has been increased thus once mapped will give better gains over the standard set up ??

You dont need to map a standard air box so surley if you need to when you have a IK bolted up a IK must be better at its intended job?

Im just wondering if in ''most'' cases the folk who think that a IK is zapping performance are the ones who have never had there car mapped thus have a negative view of them?

As said, the open filters can have a positive effect at standstill drawing more air, causing the engine to run lean which could be converted into improved power with the correct map. However as soon as any heat is generated, they draw this in as well which increases intake temp's reducing power.

I had an open filter on my old 2.0 16v Chavalier and it sounded mint and was much more repsonsive in the cold but as soon as the car warmed up, it felt like a banana had been rammed up the exhaust. This also had 2 good feeds and a heat shield.

My car has been mapped which will accentuate the improvements in the intake but when compared to a friends standard car before the map, we both found that mine had more low down punch with the standard airbox and uprated feed, elbow and panel.

if you had an open kit with a stainless steel heat sheild and good feed from the front and elbow would this not be a good set up...i find it strange that on most highly tuned cars like made japense cars they all have open induction kits and the guy who had a 200bhp cup on her with cams chip the works he had a k&n kit ??? comments on this please guys

I had a good quality heat shield on my Chavalier but the filter still managed to draw warm air through.

BenR's thoughts on the HKS style open filters used on Jap' cars are that the owners are very brand orientated. They will choose an item that costs the most and looks the best even if it doesn't provide the biggest gains.

 

[Neil G]

Seen a lot of open filters on Jap cars

The main reason for this is a a Skyline/evo running 500bhp plus needs more airflow than the OE airbox can deliver.

For a 2 litre NA engine in a reasonably std state of tune the airbox designed for it will be up to the job.

 

[clidge]

this is so silly lol no one really knows which is the definate best do they? any proof on rollers etc that can do this vipers are always slated but then people with them say they are good also!!! arggggggggggggggg lol

 

[Andyman]

^^ agree m8. The evidence so far all points to what people have experienced by ''feeling'' a difference rather than actual on paper proof.

There's like 101 different things that could be the difference between making one IK good and the same filter crap. IE Poor air feed, car not set up / needing set up etc etc

Only real way to prove it is various rolling road tests on the same car with different set ups and some timing gear for open road results

Are these 2 pictures the difference between a Viper being crap or a Viper being good ??

(cold air feed is connected to where the front fog should be)

pointed at the Viper

connected to the Viper

 

[rory182]

nah this isnt silly at all this is reality, people slate them cause they're s**t, all show and noise and no go. except in the cold.

yes those pictures show ok and better, worst of all being with no cold air feed at all. heat soak is still an issue as the heat from the engine bay radiates around the pipe and the viper, is carbon a good conductor of heat? guess not.

 

[The Hoff]

They're too maxpower for me, if it doesn't make it faster, its a waste of £300.

 

[MarkM]

^^ agree m8. The evidence so far all points to what people have experienced by ''feeling'' a difference rather than actual on paper proof.

The maxogen is better then the viper.

The proof being a remap after the viper was replaced with the maxogen. AFR was higher (leaner) therefore required more fuel. More fuel and air = more power.

I could even try the standard air box as I have an AFR meter so could compare. This has an ITG panel filter in it which has a smaller surface area then the cylindrical maxogen filter. So if they are both made of ITG spec foam you could say the maxogen has a higher potential to allow air through.

However as NeilG says it is only an NA engine and if the standard panel filter has enough surface area that it does not restrict the flow of air into the engine you can not improve the system by adding a filter with a bigger surface area.

Also worth noting how small the surface area of a viper filter is in comparison. I think its probably smaller then the panel filters.

 

[Fred@BTM]

it seems a lot of people buy the maxogen because its the most expensive, this obviously = the best

or am i on crack again?

 

[Neil G]

They're too maxpower for me, if it doesn't make it faster, its a waste of £300.

Have to agree..£300 is a lot of money to me these days

 

[MarkM]

its the most expensive, this obviously = the best

things are usually cheap for a reason.

 

[Martin_172]

if it was my car i would mod the airbox (i have on the 1.2 16v) even if the maxogen does give a slightly noticeable difference its still not worth the money.

my airbox setup has cost me £21 and is twice as good as the torque and power losing k-tec relocation kit pish that i had before, only thing i had to buy was a 200mm HKS replacement element from an HKS open super megalfow filter to make my own pannel filter, the rest of the modding was done by myself.

 

[clidge]

i there are no real gains to be had from any induction kit even the maxogen surely it is better having a kit that does not cost the earth but sound nice under the engine..look at the gen 2 k&n filter these are highly thought of in the civic world through various tests because of the sheild protection???????

 

[Fred@BTM]

what makes me smile is people buying "the best" air filter there is (alledgedly) and then putting a cheapo exhaust on

that's a bit daft in my eyes

 

[Andyman]

To me a IK or air box is only as good as the amount of cold air you can throw into it.

I like the idea of a Maxogen but the cost per performance dosent seem worth it.

 

[kully]

To me a IK or air box is only as good as the amount of cold air you can throw into it.

I like the idea of a Maxogen but the cost per performance dosent seem worth it.

ooooooooooooooh dont let the maxogen boyz hear that..........................lol

 

[Andyman]

This looks interesting but would it get enough cold air wedging it up against the slam panel ?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Carbon-Fibre-...6QQihZ009QQcategoryZ36680QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

[Martin_172]

my butchered 1.2 16v airbox

no longer restrictive

 

[The Bear]

£199 For that!! Doubt it gives 13bhp extra either

 

[Maxx]

On the 1.2 8v diet engine I have I found that panel filters are best with cold air feed.

With a s/s exhuast system, manifold, de-cat, and panel filter my car got rr'd at 70.49 bhp

I saw on a website that a German bloke done the same mods but had an induction kit instead of a panel filter and got it rr'd at 68 bhp.

 

[Andyman]

Another ram kit of which this one looks like having a side entrance cold air feed supply as well

 

[The Hoff]

I saw on a website that a German bloke done the same mods but had an induction kit instead of a panel filter and got it rr'd at 68 bhp.

Different car, different engine. But an indication none the less.

 

[rory182]

what makes me smile is people buying "the best" air filter there is (alledgedly) and then putting a cheapo exhaust on

that's a bit daft in my eyes

aimed at blueflame zorsts Im guessing lol

I aint changed my airbox and nor will I be as I don't see it as worthwhile.

Purely changing my zorst for improved quality over OEM and a lifetime warranty, not looking for gains.

 

[Maxx]

Different car, different engine. But an indication none the less.

It was the same model car with the same model engine I have in it

 

[clidge]

andyman that looks like a good kit any more details on it mate cheers any good noise and gains do you think

 

[Andyman]

andyman that looks like a good kit any more details on it mate cheers any good noise and gains do you think

Did a bit of a search on here and found a link from another topic (3rd picture down)

Dosent appear to have a side entrance for the cold air feed like what it looks on the other pic. Not sure i like where its mounted due to a lack of a direct cold air feed but thats just by looking at it in the pictures. Cant argue with the price and looks tho !!

http://www.dpmotorsport.net/parts/simota/renault.htm

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?t=150896

 

[Fred@BTM]

aimed at blueflame zorsts Im guessing lol

I aint changed my airbox and nor will I be as I don't see it as worthwhile.

Purely changing my zorst for improved quality over OEM and a lifetime warranty, not looking for gains.

aimed at 98% of the exhausts avaiable on the market, there ok, but nothing special

lol, i've been hanging around with Ben too long, he's turning me into a right perfectionist! LOL


no offense intended to anyone, you pays your money and all that, but some peoples priorities are well strange, look at Ali for example!

 

[rory182]

It was the same model car with the same model engine I have in it

aye but that means nothing, need the same temperature, same rolling road, same engine i.e. same mileage same components yeah they may be made to same spec but they're all different, manufacturing tolerances on every single component. i.e. some are better than others from new.

 

[rory182]

turning me into a right perfectionist! LOL

^ My thoughts exactly, nothing wrong with high standards but perfection takes a lot of time and therefore costs a lot of money. Value for money appeals to me.

look at Ali for example!

his priorities changed when he got a Willy.

 

[Lagerlout]

it seems a lot of people buy the maxogen because its the most expensive, this obviously = the best

or am i on crack again?

I brought it on the recommendation of BenR - He actually works with engines you know

 

[Fred@BTM]

Ben and "work" in the same sentence??? you sure on that??

 

[Fred@BTM]

his priorities changed when he got a Willy.

LMFAO!!! thats the funniest comment of the year!

 

[Giles-172]

I have ordered a obd11 cable and software that should allow me to log the plenum temp and other engine parameters(hopefully). I have a MK1 172 which has a fairly good std airbox( the cylinderal airfilter) though poorly insulated. I also have a Hillpower induction kit I plan next week and plan to do some back to back comparisons. (if the cable works Manufacturers only had to comply post 2001 The obd11 port is used for checking certain emissions values)

I have some comparisons of some different cold air boxes from a honda engine and the difference between the worse (open air filter) and the best (cold air system) was about 20 degs C (20 degs C =6% power) (this airbox was +20 bhp)

Anyway shall be an interesting test next week..

Giles

 

[MRBILLYUK]

It'll be very interesting to see the results Giles !

 

[Andyman]

Keep us posted on the results m8


Quite like the idea of this by placing the IK in the space below the battery. Not sure if the 90 degree bend on the extended inlet after the IK will cause any decrease in air flow tho. Opinions ?