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Well Duck…



Clio_fool

ClioSport Club Member
He sounds like a really safe rider! Hopefully a really big wake up for him and will prevent his untimely death mashed into someone's vehicle.
 

SharpyClio

ClioSport Club Member
He sounds like a really safe rider! Hopefully a really big wake up for him and will prevent his untimely death mashed into someone's vehicle.

People where all saying “don’t take his helmet off” and I said “it’s come off on its own” as I was first over to check on him. It was up on his forehead, he took it off the rest of the way.
 

NTG999

ClioSport Club Member
  Clio 172 Cup
I was a witness (in the queue of traffic) when a similar situation occured; speeding overtaking motorcycle, I was interviewed by the police and I asked who would be at fault. The policeman, at the time, said that the guide is the Highway Code which is mirror, signal, maneuver, not mirror, signal, mirror, maneuver; so if he wasn't in your mirror when you checked....
PS, I have a brand new set of wheel arch liners 😁
 

Smoothie Claymore

ClioSport Club Member
i wasn’t moving changing lanes, had that been the case I would have been liable and accept that.
Leaving your lane doesn’t just mean changing lanes like on a motorway. You chose to deviate from the ‘normal’ route of continuing along the road, and entered a different one (the oncoming lane you are crossing). When doing so, you have to check the lane you are moving into is clear. That’s what Cookson’s on about.

Unfortunately what is morally correct and what is correct in the eyes of the insurance is not always the same.
 

SharpyClio

ClioSport Club Member
Leaving your lane doesn’t just mean changing lanes like on a motorway. You chose to deviate from the ‘normal’ route of continuing along the road, and entered a different one (the oncoming lane you are crossing). When doing so, you have to check the lane you are moving into is clear. That’s what Cookson’s on about.

Unfortunately what is morally correct and what is correct in the eyes of the insurance is not always the same.
Which I did and when I did he wasn’t there… 6 seconds it would have taken him to cover the ground from being out of sight to being in my door.
 

Tory-ing_Rob

ClioSport Club Member
Being an advanced rider (albeit no longer a member), that's exactly what they teach you when both overtaking and filtering, when approaching a junction with queuing cars anticipate / assume a car with make a turn, slow down and once the risk has passed proceed.
Yes that is what they teach you, but the advanced rider course doesn't teach the law, they teach you imo common sense.

It would have helped you a lot if the police had done him for dangerous driving, or if you had him on record admitting liability.

Morally you are in the right, unfortunately I side with @Cookson. Lets say the rider was filtering at legal speeds, you indicate but don't check properly and he hits you as you make your turn. Who is to blame then? Now I know you did look, and I know he was speeding... but how can you prove that?

When I ride, the number of people who change lanes, do a U-turn, pull out in front of me without looking is mental... generally they all think its my fault because they were indicating like that gives them right of way, it doesn't.

Your actions did cause another road user to change their speed or direction (rapidly as it turns out :ROFLMAO:). It is not against the law for the rider to be on the wrong side of the road, or to filter.

I really hope that the witness statements and cctv are enough for your insurers to side with you, that the rider was dangerously driving and that the accident for you was unavoidable.
 

Tory-ing_Rob

ClioSport Club Member
To muddy the water further, since the new road laws were introduced they seem to have effectively placed blame on the larger vehicle in most cases :cry:

Some years ago I was speeding, and an indicating stationary car turned across the front of my car. He was found at fault because there was no evidence that I was speeding.... I think it also helped that he was an uninsured taxi driver...

Good luck mate and glad you bought the car back!
 

Smoothie Claymore

ClioSport Club Member
Which I did and when I did he wasn’t there… 6 seconds it would have taken him to cover the ground from being out of sight to being in my door.
But unfortunately in the case of checking your mirror it doesn’t matter.

When my first car got written off, I was trying to cross two standstill lanes of traffic and a bus lane. I stopped in the middle of the road after the traffic let me out and looked as far up the bus lane as possible - Nothing. Pulled across and was hit in the rear by a taxi flying along the bus lane in excess of the limit. I had the police and several witnesses in my favour, I could not have done anything more than I did, and in fact after that the junction was closed because it was deemed too dangerous. Still went down as my fault, I entered the bus lane.

You don’t have any proof that the bike was speeding, you just turned across an overtaking vehicle and generally in the terms of insurance, that’s it. Having CCTV gives you a glimmer of hope but I wouldn’t expect the biker to get lumped with it sadly.
 

Oxyuris

ClioSport Club Member
  Clio 172
id add that similar but also very different. Not a 60, a marked junction, built up area, lots of people about / walking etc, double whites would have been crossed, speed likely involved based on witness reports I indicated as the CCTV will show. So while I may have to accept some liability the weight must be against the rider given the scenario and the risks he was taking, I’m wondering if the cctv will show that the rider was not likely in my field of view when I would have done my checks given his speed.

As with most collisions it will need to be viewed on its own merits, what has been before does not necessarily set a precedent.
Hmm, sorry. I've just re-read what I wrote, I did it quite quickly as I was doing something else and I probably should have made it clear that I don't blame you for the collision. Bikers in general have to take care of themselves as you don't win anything by being in the right about a collision while learning to walk again. From your description the overtake was unnecessary and put him into a dangerous situation. Also a right turn is a normal action but an overtake in a built up area is unusual.

But the facts of the matter are that you made a right turn into the path of another vehicle, nothing more nothing less. That's surely the view the insurance companies will take and if this then ends up in court, and it's a big if because generally they don't, then your legal person is going need to show that the biker's actions were so reckless that he wasn't owed any duty of care.
I think the comparison with a car in the same situation is disingenuous because we don't own other car drivers as bigger duty of care because they are not vulnerable road users. So as I said I think it'll end up 50/50 unless the biker takes responsibility and you will have a hard time arguing otherwise but I do understand why you feel the way you do.
 

SharpyClio

ClioSport Club Member
What I want to make clear to everyone is that I appreciate the input, a week on and my responses are less emotional and this has really helped me understand it and my position / involvement and the possibly outcomes.

im conscious I haven’t always come across well so I apologise for that. Like I said I will update as it plays out and at least if it is found to be me at fault I’m more prepared for that than I would have been.
Cheers
 

Tory-ing_Rob

ClioSport Club Member
What I want to make clear to everyone is that I appreciate the input, a week on and my responses are less emotional and this has really helped me understand it and my position / involvement and the possibly outcomes.

im conscious I haven’t always come across well so I apologise for that. Like I said I will update as it plays out and at least if it is found to be me at fault I’m more prepared for that than I would have been.
Cheers
I think you have come across well through out mate.
 

thecrim22

ClioSport Club Member
  various
What I want to make clear to everyone is that I appreciate the input, a week on and my responses are less emotional and this has really helped me understand it and my position / involvement and the possibly outcomes.

im conscious I haven’t always come across well so I apologise for that. Like I said I will update as it plays out and at least if it is found to be me at fault I’m more prepared for that than I would have been.
Cheers

I think you have come across well through out mate.
b****cks i think he has come across as a complete c**t as he has yet to inform us if friend/neighbour has big tits or not🤣🤣🤣🤣
 

R3k1355

Absolute wetter.
ClioSport Club Member
What I want to make clear to everyone is that I appreciate the input, a week on and my responses are less emotional and this has really helped me understand it and my position / involvement and the possibly outcomes.

im conscious I haven’t always come across well so I apologise for that. Like I said I will update as it plays out and at least if it is found to be me at fault I’m more prepared for that than I would have been.
Cheers

Anyone else would have been exactly the same.

I guess you never realise till it happens that it's (now) rarely 100% the bikers fault, even when they were being a prick and putting themselves in danger.
 


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