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Where does the extra power come from on 197



  Tangoed Works
As per post title. The obvious changes I can see are the inlet manifold is very smooth, by looking at the cutaway from the British Motorshow,
F4R.jpg

F4R1.gif


and they have probably altered the map on the ecu against the 182. Is the 197 producing 158 lb/ft of torque now?
 
  Clio 182 Trophy 047/500
The main increase in power is down the the Remaped ECU and VVT.

I am sure that the change in the Inlet has helped a little, as will the Exhaust manifold, but most of it has been done through the ECU.

Just think all the money to purchase the 197 you could save the money, get a set of cams, matched inlet, decat, and a remap and be pushing around the same figure, if not a little more.
 
  Lionel Richie
remember thats a "show" engine the inside of the inlet manifold is nothing like that on th production unit lol!!!

i want chromed crank and rods!
 
  Lionel Richie
it'll be a rough texture inside

the amount of work that goes into tarting up those show engines is ridiculous
 
  Tangoed Works
Yeah I remember speaking to some other tuners and they say that a mirror finish is never the best way forward. Its ideal to have a bit of texture inside to create turbulence or like a swirl flow into the inlet. Does this just apply for the combustion chamber or will it make a big difference to the actual inlet manifold as well.

Another point, how come they dont manufacture the inlet manifold in one part?
 
  Skoda Octavia TDi vRS
SteveC047 said:
Just think all the money to purchase the 197 you could save the money, get a set of cams, matched inlet, decat, and a remap and be pushing around the same figure, if not a little more.

But the 197 engine must comply with emissions and noise regulations.

Steve
 
  Clio 182 Trophy 047/500
Steve vRS said:
But the 197 engine must comply with emissions and noise regulations.

Steve

I am aware of that.

But at the end of the day, fitting a set of cams, and having the car Remapped wont effect the emissions or noise regs, by a huge amount, it would only b e the case by fitting a decat, and cat back system.
 
  Tangoed Works
^^^ must give it the extra bhp, lol.

The main reason im asking is that, people on here say it is very hard to get a real 200 bhp without using cams, standalone etc. So has the 197 had cam profile changes etc to get this extra power? Or is it just items that some of us 1*2 owners are having done, ie inlet match and remaps etc.
 
  Lionel Richie
of course we do

higher comp ratio
better inlet
higher revlimit
different cams and constant VVT

chrome pistons ;)
 
  Tangoed Works
Constant vvt? How does this compare to the 182 then? Is it right that the vvt starts working from 1650 rpm?

Will the 197 cams be a direct replacement for 1*2 engines being that they are all F4R's?
 
I would imagine the cams would be a direct replacement, but why bother when there are better cams out there eg BenR's current and new designs and Shrick
 
  Lionel Richie
i have a funny felling that they'll have done something gay with the oilways in the cams which means they can't be swapped between the 700 and 800 series units, just a guess though
 
theduckeatspork said:
I would imagine the cams would be a direct replacement, but why bother when there are better cams out there eg BenR's current and new designs and Shrick
Thats an easy way to more power. However a bigish redesign like this whilst costing more is handy as if Vauhall etc launch a 210hp hot hatch to compete Renault can easily stick some cams in the 197 and be equal in the HP stakes in reasonably quick time. Trying to get a camed 182 engine to make 210hp would take a bit more money.

Also Renault have used there new 6 speed gearbox which necessitated a different block so the old engine bottom end counldn't be used. The cost of a new top end as such isn't that much relitivly plus people think of the car as a whole new car not just a Mk3 shell with a last generation cammed engine
 
edde said:
Thats an easy way to more power. However a bigish redesign like this whilst costing more is handy as if Vauhall etc launch a 210hp hot hatch to compete Renault can easily stick some cams in the 197 and be equal in the HP stakes in reasonably quick time. Trying to get a camed 182 engine to make 210hp would take a bit more money.

Also Renault have used there new 6 speed gearbox which necessitated a different block so the old engine bottom end counldn't be used. The cost of a new top end as such isn't that much relitivly plus people think of the car as a whole new car not just a Mk3 shell with a last generation cammed engine

sorry i was refering to why bother putting 197 cams into a 182 etc when there are better aftermarket kits available.
 
theduckeatspork said:
sorry i was refering to why bother putting 197 cams into a 182 etc when there are better aftermarket kits available.
Ooops sorry I'd guess people will hopefully be able to get them cheap when they start getting crashed and if Renault built them they should be suitable.
 
FredYozzasport said:
its a renault F4R, no such thing as "relatively easy" lol!!!



I was of course referring to it being 'relatively easy' for you hallowed tuner types!

Any comment on what is likely to be in the market place for hp upgrades? Similar to the 182 stuff with similar gains?
 
  Renault 5 1.8 16V
I am new to renaults but all rover did to turn the vvc engine from 143bhp to 160bhp was skim the head to up compression used tricut valves and remapped ecu and a 3mm larger throttle body.

Remapping makes a hugh differnce, cheap after market kits should be about soon, £500 spent with superchips just gave my work mates gof gti a extra 50 bhp from the original 200.
 
from what i've learnt of the stock ecu, it has its limitations in terms of resolution, leading to an ignition insensitive engine and high amounts of interpolation. It has alot of 'controls' but the actual map isnt as sophisticated as i would of likes. However the newer ecu might be better, and is probably the reason why cup racers run a much stronger torque curve with the magneti marelli system.
 


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