who do you trust? ;-)

[clidge]

hi everyone just a quick question i have been mulling over which induction to get for my 172 mk2 or if just to get an itg panel filter!!!

gdi , ktec bb and hillpower all seem to have different views on which is the best and to be honest they own a business and would not recommend a panel filter that costs 40 when they want you to buy the kits that cost so must more!!! nick at hillpower is a very genuine bloke and he rates his induction kit as one of the best as he designed it but as always i really dont know who and what to do alot of people say viper is good viper is crap, k&n are good k&n are crap (yet a 212bhp cup has a k&n on his!!!!) itg the best but not the best gains and to pricy---all in all have a panel filter and the gaines are the same...but i am wanting a zorst system and eventually chip it is a panel up to that so will a induction be better!!!


arrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhh

please help....ps bmc seems good or not....bloody hell man!!!

 

[Justin182]

Not too sure mate.... kinda in your shoes. Did go for a ITG panel filter in the end as i wasnt really after noise which the viper provides and more so, big bucks for the viper !!

Just got to figure out what type of remap to go with next.

I'm sure there will be plenty views...

 

[howie p]

get a panel filter, cant go wrong

 

[Jones]

I'd save your cash keep it stock and get a proper gain from a ported inlet manifold

 

[thedoc]

I'd save your cash keep it stock and get a proper gain from a ported inlet manifold

what he said ^^

 

[Lunner]

BBPT or Hillpower or AWT

 

[BexKTR]

we quite regulary sell itg/jr/pipercross panel filters as they are a popular inexpensive upgrade with resonable improvements!

 

[Neil G]

hi everyone just a quick question i have been mulling over which induction to get for my 172 mk2 or if just to get an itg panel filter!!!

gdi , ktec bb and hillpower all seem to have different views on which is the best and to be honest they own a business and would not recommend a panel filter that costs 40 when they want you to buy the kits that cost so must more!!! nick at hillpower is a very genuine bloke and he rates his induction kit as one of the best as he designed it but as always i really dont know who and what to do alot of people say viper is good viper is crap, k&n are good k&n are crap (yet a 212bhp cup has a k&n on his!!!!) itg the best but not the best gains and to pricy---all in all have a panel filter and the gaines are the same...but i am wanting a zorst system and eventually chip it is a panel up to that so will a induction be better!!!


arrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhh

please help....ps bmc seems good or not....bloody hell man!!!

I can undertand your dilemma....there is just so much to choose from and a lot of claims out there as to what's best. I have also seen very, very high powered cars running K&N open cones (Norris evo for instance) so they can't be complete c**p.

I think it does depend on the car and modifications...a lot of high powered cars need IKs because they are just flowing so much air beyond what the OE airbox is capable of and are properly mapped so can get the most from an IK.

I opted for a panel as I know the original airbox is up to the job of supplying my car with the air that it needs as it's very lightly modified. At the end of the day if does depend on where you want to end up tuning wise.

 

[Fred@BTM]

vipers

 

[Neil G]

Nah...OE airbox with panel....you know it makes sense

 

[Andy GDI]

the only time i have really seen a need for a larger filter is with an audi turbo engine we built.... the CDA box on it restricted the engine and would not flow more than 330bhp ish... be changed the filter to a larger one and the derestriction allowed 20bhp more from JUST that....

but on the clio I have seen good hp from pretty much all the filters.

the main difference which everyone seems to forget is not the peak bhp but the mid range power and response.... larger gains are often had in the middle of the power band.....

to complement this adding more fuel in the mid rev band also helps as the cars power as most oe fueling is set to 14.7 afr almost all the way to the full throttle.. so adding more to get it closer to 12.9 makes a very worthwhile difference but might not give you massive peak bhp figures.....

 

[rmccardal]

Soft lad

vipers

 

[Guy]

vipers are crap.

 

[rmccardal]

amen.

(well they are fine but I dont like them for some reason)

vipers are crap.

 

[BRUN]

if you do want a panel filter, pm me

£45 delivered

Trueblue on here was my most recent customer

 

[Andy GDI]

http://www.greydevilindustries.com/products/product.asp?id=20639

the itg and the pipercross are our most popular ones.

Vipers still get the seal of aproval,

the ITG Maxogen kit always get good reviews but are a little more expensive than the viper.

 

[Neil G]

I'm not keen on the look of vipers....kinda tacky with all that anodizing going on.

Matter of preference though....I t seems plenty of people run them and are happy with the results.

 

[clidge]

cheers everyone for your responses i had a viper on my cup and to be honest i really really did not feel any difference or sound improvement what so ever i even thought the car felt a little less responsive afterwards!! andi gdi thank you also for posting on here i am glad i was not the only one that gets confused about which ones to buy....anyway i am wanting full zorst system the inlet manifold worked on with a group n ecu at the end bearing this in mind which overall filter would be a good buy i just them to work correctly together so what are everyones opinion i have been thinking about the following:

1) bmc cda
2) k&n gen 2 git or normal 57i kit
3) hillpower kit

cheer and thanks again

 

[Trueblue]

Hi mate,

well i was in the same boat, i also had a Viper on my 172cup.. increase in noise yes, but the car still felt restricted.

Now i have the 182.. all i was looking for was a panel filter, ITG came out tops and it is slighlty crisper in the mid-range..
if you want to go forced induction, shell out and buy the ITG Maxogen..

just my thoughts mate, hope this helps

 

[MarkM]

Here is a response from an email I sent to a Belgium tuner who can get hold of the bits off the cup race cars. I was asking him about the inlet and filter arrangement on them

"I can tell you that it won't give you more performance than an ITG filter and that ITG is much better quality. You have to keep in mind that everything they use in Cup is as standard it can be, because they don't care if it's broken the first or second time, they just put another one in it. That means quality is not allways as good as an aftermarket product. I know many tuners love the Viper besides the ITG, but we measured powerlosses in some rpm ranges with the Viper. The ITG is absolutely the best filter you can get

If you want my honest opinion, I wouldn't do this mod because you won't notice the difference with the changes you already did. You've spent lots of money on your mods and if I were you, I would spent my money on an ITG"

Needless to say I swapped my viper for a maxogen filter.
Also note that when I had my car remapped after swapping from the viper the car was running leaner (not much but every little helps).

I also think the viper looks a bit tacky especially when it costs £250. If you can pick up a secondhand one for 120ish they are probably worth it.

IMO dont bother. get an itg panel filter if you really have to but it wont make much difference.
Save up for an exhaust, filter, manifold match and a remap, that is worth while.

 

[clidge]

cheers guys many thanks for those detailed reponses i just wish i could afford the maxogen sounds probably the best set up now i think i am getting the right signals if a just want to improve basic breathing get and itg panel filter but with the mods i want a need really a forced one....but what about that 212bhp cup with the k&n arrrrrrrrgggggggggggg it just does not make sense!!! anymore ideas!!!

 

[MarkM]

....but what about that 212bhp cup with the k&n arrrrrrrrgggggggggggg it just does not make sense!!! anymore ideas!!!

whose is the 212bhp cup??

An open filter will breathe hot air thats the problem.

My viper was open at the back of the rad (1st pic). When mapping the car on the road on a cold day (approx 10deg) inlet temps (measured at the inlet manifold) were between 20 and 35deg depending on how hard the car was being driven, the harder you drove it the hotter the rad got and the hotter the intake.

The second pic is the maxogen, an open one. Doing the same as above on a similar temp day the inlet temp sat at a constant 17deg it did not move around at all.

I think in the summer the test would have gone even more in favour of the second setup with under bonnet temps being even higher.

I can not comment on a setup with a CAF as I never tried one but I imagine throttle response would not be as good and all the restrictions in the pipe wont help.

You could try an open maxogen like mine they are only about £50 and see how you got on with it would probably be OK in the winter.

Not sure how much temperature effects bhp there is probably some figures for it somewhere.

PS I like the look of the hillpower one looks like a good compromise between open and closed filter (you get the noise without the heat soak)

 

[Fred@BTM]

nev's old cup, then Ant had it

212bhp i think is a bit OTT, more like 205ish

it did have our Schrick cams in it

 

[Ad]

Ant's still got the cup.. came so close to buying it. if it had had ac... would have had it.

 

[Fred@BTM]

ac in the uk?? why?

 

[BenR]

because summer makes your balls sweat.

 

[Fred@BTM]

talck them up in the morning??

 

[clidge]

cheers mark thanks for that reply and those picks where did you get that filter from and is a hillpower bend looks well....i still cant understand why a cup with heavy mods would choose a k&n open if they are crap and no good???? sorry to keep saying this but i dont really want to be wasting money on soemthing costing 300 when i could get one for around 60-70 ish?? and they would near enough do the same thing?????? cheers again does the owner of the 212bhp cup come on here much has he mentioned why he chose that set up? does the k&n give a great sound when booted??????? cheers

 

[Bagus]

Till this moment we're speaking,I have a K&N filter in my 182 cup...Didn't notice anything special though..The power is pretty much the same(and at the end who can feel 1-2 hp more?) and the car produces little more sound than the industrial filter...

I'll definetely get an ITG Maxogen,after reading all the induction topics in here...
~The car is already reprogramed,but I'll have to check its programm again when I install the Maxogen..Hope by the end of March that I'll be able to post the results of the dyno...

 

[Andy GDI]

nevs old car made almost bang on 200 bhp... it was never 212.

i have the graph somewhere..

it was a really nice one though

 

[Fred@BTM]

it did 212 on another rolling road + 10Kmiles (it had only 7K on the clock when cams went in)

as i said its probably around 205ish now the engine has loosened up