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Just had my test drive in a 197

warren4 said:
Always difficult comparing a car on tired dampers with a brand new one. I don't think the 182 would be ranked as one of the best ever hot hatches if the handling was that bad?
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The 182 were ranked one of the best hot hatches at the time they current and before the 197 was around, its easy to dig out old references to how great they are.

The 197 in my opinion has advanced in all areas other than the fact it lacks the torque lower down that a 182 has, but thats why it has a 6 speed box, it just needs thrashing more.

The only decent and realistic review i have ever read about a 197 is this one - http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/road_tests/index.htm?id=312&section=main , ok its a cup but essentially the message is right.

Note the bit in the article about the steering and handling :D
 
alant1000 said:
The 182 were ranked one of the best hot hatches at the time they current and before the 197 was around, its easy to dig out old references to how great they are.

The 197 in my opinion has advanced in all areas other than the fact it lacks the torque lower down that a 182 has, but thats why it has a 6 speed box, it just needs thrashing more.

The only decent and realistic review i have ever read about a 197 is this one - http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/road_tests/index.htm?id=312&section=main , ok its a cup but essentially the message is right.

Note the bit in the article about the steering and handling :D
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So you dis-regard every article that doesn't agree with you? How about the performance car article? Direct Trophy Vs 197 on the same day? Or the Evo lap times, again, same driver, same day? Not saying it's a bad car, but everytime you post you make out the 197 is the best thing since sliced bread. It's a really good car, if it had more feel and 10% more power/torque it would be a great car.
 
Yeah good point warren, EVO and Performace Car have said this all along 197 is very good but as special as the 5 star 182. But again it is persnal preference. The 182 is the best car for me that I could buy for 5k. If I had 14k to spend it would be a different story all together. All cars can be fast, very fast, very very fast if you have one key ingredient the driver. My pal who has an ignis sport would leave me in my 182 on some roads just simply becuase he is an awesome driver.
 
Helps that I'm the new Narain Karthikeyan, I could do sub 8 mins at the ring in the wife's Rover 25, whilst throwing gang signs at all the Clio's I go past.
 
russbelluk said:
All i gotta say to this is 'WOW OMFG', they are awesome to drive, i was out for 30 mins and i was knackered. The grip is phenomenal. My dad took it out after and he said he felt it gripped better than a scooby that he had a test drive in a bit back. This has just made my 2 week wait even more painful now,

Every aspect about it is awesome, the pick up, grip, steering feedback, the whole lot is well as you can see it exceeded all my expectations. When your just cruising along, its just saying to you 'go on, you know you wana floor it'. i see why they put a speed limiter on them now!!!

Watch out for an Albi Blue cupped 197 on an 09 plate around the wolverhampton area....
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i love mine!!

cup racer exhaust
induction
remap

SDC10204.jpg
 
I agree with warren, it could definitely do with a slight swell in the torque department. I don't think anyone can honestly deny that the 182 does definitely feel a bit more willing to get up and go. Side by side in a drag, I expect there'd be nothing in it, but how a car feels is more important. The one I drove definitely felt less urgent, but once moving it was sensational on a winding road. Really really good.

I can't wait to see what the facelift looks like. Shouldn't be long now as long as people keep buying the current car :approve:
 
f**k me that red one looks nice rolling on black. More pics? I also think the dark headlamp units really improve the look of the 197 :approve:
 
For me steering feel is number one priority. I was so let down when I bought the CTR, it was the car I d always wanted and loved everything about it aprt from the steering. It had to go!
 
Roy Munson said:
I agree with warren, it could definitely do with a slight swell in the torque department. I don't think anyone can honestly deny that the 182 does definitely feel a bit more willing to get up and go. Side by side in a drag, I expect there'd be nothing in it, but how a car feels is more important. The one I drove definitely felt less urgent, but once moving it was sensational on a winding road. Really really good.

I can't wait to see what the facelift looks like. Shouldn't be long now as long as people keep buying the current car :approve:
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s1033612.jpg
 
this is true. That front bumper just looks like a step back in the styling department, like a bumper off of a none renaultsport model made wider, if that makes sense?
 
Roy Munson said:
Perhaps, I just don't think they feel stable. Handling is subjective. Mine is extremely capable. I don't doubt it's ability to corner. It's just that for me, too many faults conspire to hamper the fun. I'd feel a lot more confident taking a 90mph corner in a 197 than I would in a 182. For me, that means it handles better. On my 197 test drive, I had the rear end swinging about. The salesman s**t himself. I can do this in the 182 of course, but it doesn't feel as happy about it. The fact that I was that confident about the car on a first test drive, says a lot about it's abilities TBH. Difficult to describe really, the 197 just felt sharper and more focused. More planted. More comfortable, better engine.

Faults (IMO) are low speed steering, relative lack of torque/ton, and too rev happy at cruising speeds.
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I think that is a very informative post.

I'm not sure what people say about the engine in the 1*2's, the ones i've been in all seem to be nice and smooth to me. However maybe if i drove one I would feel differently.
 
Brett said:
I think that is a very informative post.

I'm not sure what people say about the engine in the 1*2's, the ones i've been in all seem to be nice and smooth to me. However maybe if i drove one I would feel differently.
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The engines are ok, just nothing special. Quite gruff. Lots of vibration through the control surfaces once you're above 6,500rpm. It's probably something you wouldn't notice unless you have experience of a 2.0l Honda ivtec. The last thing I want when pushing hard near the red line, is to feel like I have to change up mid corner because the engine feels like it's about to throw a rod. The 197 engine is much better. It spins and spins and doesn't feel laboured. Still not as good as a Honda but much better than the 182.
 
The Honda's are more solid which give you that perception. Jump into a B18 and you'll change your mind! Scary car...

197 - i've driven a few. I do like them. Very capable, very stable, look and feel like a qulaity item. Still the premier hot hatch so to speak.

I also like that new facelift.
 
warren4 said:
So you dis-regard every article that doesn't agree with you? How about the performance car article? Direct Trophy Vs 197 on the same day? Or the Evo lap times, again, same driver, same day? Not saying it's a bad car, but everytime you post you make out the 197 is the best thing since sliced bread. It's a really good car, if it had more feel and 10% more power/torque it would be a great car.
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But you do this everytime, you only ever assume there were 182 trophys and not normal or cupped 182s. To win the 197/182 argument you completely disregard the standard range and only ever focus on the limited edition much better spec'd model.

That would be like me comparing the R27 or 197 cup with a normal 182 without cup packs.

You are aware that not all 182s are Trophy's arent you? Because they are the only ones I ever hear you talk about to win an argument.

Incidentally, I know for sure a Trophy would wee all over my standard non-cupped 197, but thats not a decent comparison and never has been.
 
Evo timed the 182cup slightly quicker than the Trophy around Bedford (old track configuration). Seeing as whenever the point is made (1*2 v 197) the first thing mentioned is "it wasn't a cupped 197" etc, only fair to use the mostup to date version of the 182, no?
 
warren4 said:
Evo timed the 182cup slightly quicker than the Trophy around Bedford (old track configuration). Seeing as whenever the point is made (1*2 v 197) the first thing mentioned is "it wasn't a cupped 197" etc, only fair to use the mostup to date version of the 182, no?
Click to expand...

Maybe, but it would be nice to see a 197 cup vs 182 cup vs 172 cup (there may has been a group test somewhere, not sure), normal 182 vs normal 197 etc as a fairer comparison, the cup packs are specifically designed to improve tracktimes, so I would completely expect a cupped version to outrun a standard version. The trophy is a standalone model in comparison terms, there hasnt been an equivalent 197 yet, but if there was i'd expect it to give the 182 a run for its money.

I think the 182 cup is 5kg lighter than the Trophy? 1070kg vs 1075kg?
 
Last edited:
chris_p said:
I'm not debating that, only facts speak for themselvs.
If the cars are both putting out the manufacturers power output the cup will be the faster car! I know the 197 is a better package all round, I was just throwing the 172 in for comparisons sake.



I'm not listening to 'my mate' stories, too many factors to consider. Pug 206 gtis aren't very quick, the cup must have been half dead or the pug was seriously modified. Standard vs standard its no contest, I know, a friend of mine owns a 180 206.



how the feck is that a fail? grow up little boy!
I cannot rectify or explain why a manufacturer is so piss poor at making cars that the power outputs massively vary, all I know is that if a clio cup is running full power (which is a bit of a lottery) it will be one of the fastest RS clios!

I didn't want to turn this into a 1*2 vs 197 argument and still dont, but when people are taking pops at me I will stand my ground.
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because you are relying on power to weight as your argument in a previous post then harp on about how they don't make book power anyway so the power to weight argument is pointles! thats why !!

no need for the little boy comment. you seem to be getting your knickers in a twist. just calm down a bit. i'll accept your apology later on for your insult.
 
seb said:
because you are relying on power to weight as your argument in a previous post then harp on about how they don't make book power anyway so the power to weight argument is pointles! thats why !!

no need for the little boy comment. you seem to be getting your knickers in a twist. just calm down a bit. i'll accept your apology later on for your insult.
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+1 his first post was you should have got a 172 cup....

Stupid post tbh, followed by further crap.
 
warren4 said:
So you dis-regard every article that doesn't agree with you? How about the performance car article? Direct Trophy Vs 197 on the same day? Or the Evo lap times, again, same driver, same day? Not saying it's a bad car, but everytime you post you make out the 197 is the best thing since sliced bread. It's a really good car, if it had more feel and 10% more power/torque it would be a great car.
Click to expand...

just to play devil advocate, chris harris when at Autocar in his official road test of the 197 stated it was a better car than the 182 period. He stated it is the hot hatch porsche would make if they did. I wish i still had my copy of the article as it was great.

So it just shows there are a variety of differnet reviews of the 197, some people think it is awesome and better than the older models or anything else in its bracket, and then there are other publicatinos who think a MCS is better.

all horses for courses and again, ultimately, personal opinion. :)
 
197 is bigger, therefore better no?

Drove up to my 197 before in the works van. I fitted some new satin Black speedlines over the weekend, damn it looked well, all squat and perposeful. Has presence the MK2 can only dream of tbh







;)
 
Ha more argueing I see. I don't think there is any doubt the 197 is a better all round car, yes I have driven them. But I do agree the 172 cup is the quickest of the rs and a rawer experience.
 
you lot have ben busy while i've been at work. anyway another day, another dollar AND another day less to wait until i get my hands on it.

I will give periodic reviews on thoughts on my ownership of it (kinda like a blog).

172s, 182s, 197s are all from different generations. You can talk about this sort of thing everyday for the rest of your life. Compare then to ALL of the Porsche 911s there have been in 30 odd years, each time they improved it in such way. As time went on, people wanted more refinement.

Comparison of refinement could be the older diesel engines. One of the reasons why they started putting turbos on them is it did make them quieter and therefore more refined and give them a much needed boost in speed.

You can side with what Kev says about the original 172 being the most raw, the same can be said about the an old skool porsche (one from the 80s) it would have been rawer than the one made today.

People want comfort and speed as 1. Car manufacturers want their cars to attract all kinds of people. For example the new scooby (yeah its ugly compared the other scoobies made) was made into a hatchback to attract the female buyer IIRC. So now subaru would have your boy racers, blokes going thru mid life crisis's, older people trying to find their youth again and women as their catchment buyers.

What i'm trying to say is that is evolution (last example), look at the Evo 1 compared to the Evo 10 or whatever number they're on now. 10-15 years down the line this is what the renaultsport clio's ever made would be like, gradual evolution.

Okay, fingers hurt now!!!
 
This has been a very informative post (ableit the petty arguing lol).

I may need that flash ECU upgrade as my 2007 R27 has all the symptoms of the original ecu probs....
jumpy and lacks instant power when engine is cold. May get it booked in soon.

I was told by the dealer that all 197's do this and it is not a fault. Got told that it is because the oil is "like water" thus only performs properly when engine is warm????

Not a major problem tho, only lasts for first 5 mins of start up but id rather not have it.

Loving the car tho atm was awesome revving the nuts of the engine trying to keep up with my cousins evo ;) (was never going to happen lol).
 
Dave_R27 said:
I was told by the dealer that all 197's do this and it is not a fault. Got told that it is because the oil is "like water" thus only performs properly when engine is warm????
Click to expand...

Jesus Christ. Did someone really tell you that? I didn't realise it was the fuckwit world championships again already. Some of the things dealers come out with should be framed and put in the CS mansion gallery.
 
Good points russ. I do like the 197 don't get me wrong it drives like a fast renna should, but just imagine how good it would be 200 kilos lighter. Surley they could achieve it sum how.
 
200kg would be a massive diet. Think R26.R with some stuff stripped out. I can't see it happeneing. Perhaps 100kg if they ever do an .R

200kg would probably mean no carpets or passenger seat.
 
i think even 50kgs would be difference tbh, dunno where they would lose that kind of weight from.

Quick Q, as seen as there are few induction kits out there for the 197, what angle and length of pipe would i need to make it fit
 
Well there's a bar in the back seat that weighs 20kg so there's a start. Smaller rear seats like the 172 cup, thinner windows, take out some sound deadening. Bin the jack and tools while ya on, Would be a good start. I may have to make it my project.
 
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