Car Magazine: Focus RS vs Renault Legend

[Wobba]

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Drives...rd-Focus-RS-2010-the-David-and-Goliath-video/

Not sure if this has been posted already recently...

 

[word_easy]

You've got to love the roar of the Williams!

 

[Gally]

It just looks like an old shed.

Why are they still comparing old drivers cars with new sports cars?

Williams vs a 200! I mean of course the williams if going to be more fun! I'm not even a journo and I could tell them that!

 

[Munson]

Handling wise, you do have to be going pretty fast in the RS before you start to feel the car underneath you. At normal speeds it's just so stable and planted that I can see what the guy is saying. That said, the engine is never boring. In fact the car is only boring when you want it to be. It stands to reason that the little Clio would be a better handling car at normal speeds.

Actually, boring and FRS shouldn't be used in the same sentence. Thuggish cars TBH.

 

[ForceIndia]

That's the point though, isn't it. Modern cars have lost the plot slightly. The race to be ever faster/grippier/safer has led to cars that you can't enjoy in the way you can an older car. You could drive a Williams at 8/10, revel in the movement going into a corner, and how purely the car reacts to every input, at speeds that will barely bother anyone.
In a Meg/FRS and similar, driving at 5/10's you're in licence losing territory. Weight is the enemy of performance at the end of the day, and you'll never make a hatch that entertains like a 205/Williams etc without shedding some of the mass.
Have to admire Mazda for ensuring the MX5 doesn't have too much grip, just ruins the fun!
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights. Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."

 

[Gally]

Good point Warren, I just think with safety, power assisted steering other electrics keeping you on the road no cars will ever be raw.

The 205/williams/xr2's were still every day cars.

You're looking at elises ect... to give you that driving pleasure these days.

 

[ForceIndia]

It's all about people's expectations. I know people that do 5k miles a year, and insist on nonsense like heated seats, cup holders, tv etc etc in their "sports" cars.

 

[Waitey]

That's the point though, isn't it. Modern cars have lost the plot slightly. The race to be ever faster/grippier/safer has led to cars that you can't enjoy in the way you can an older car. You could drive a Williams at 8/10, revel in the movement going into a corner, and how purely the car reacts to every input, at speeds that will barely bother anyone.
In a Meg/FRS and similar, driving at 5/10's you're in licence losing territory. Weight is the enemy of performance at the end of the day, and you'll never make a hatch that entertains like a 205/Williams etc without shedding some of the mass.
Have to admire Mazda for ensuring the MX5 doesn't have too much grip, just ruins the fun!
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights. Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."

+1

Mazda have it spot on. Their MK3 MX-5 is a laugh to drive.

 

[nth]

That's the point though, isn't it. Modern cars have lost the plot slightly. The race to be ever faster/grippier/safer has led to cars that you can't enjoy in the way you can an older car. You could drive a Williams at 8/10, revel in the movement going into a corner, and how purely the car reacts to every input, at speeds that will barely bother anyone.
In a Meg/FRS and similar, driving at 5/10's you're in licence losing territory. Weight is the enemy of performance at the end of the day, and you'll never make a hatch that entertains like a 205/Williams etc without shedding some of the mass.
Have to admire Mazda for ensuring the MX5 doesn't have too much grip, just ruins the fun!
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights. Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."

warren4 pm.

 

[Munson]

That's the point though, isn't it. Modern cars have lost the plot slightly. The race to be ever faster/grippier/safer has led to cars that you can't enjoy in the way you can an older car. You could drive a Williams at 8/10, revel in the movement going into a corner, and how purely the car reacts to every input, at speeds that will barely bother anyone.
In a Meg/FRS and similar, driving at 5/10's you're in licence losing territory. Weight is the enemy of performance at the end of the day, and you'll never make a hatch that entertains like a 205/Williams etc without shedding some of the mass.
Have to admire Mazda for ensuring the MX5 doesn't have too much grip, just ruins the fun!
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights. Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."

100% correct, although in the case of the RS, it's fun in different ways even at low speeds. Mostly because of the engine character. The engine should not be overlooked. It's the heart of the car.

 

[ForceIndia]

100% correct, although in the case of the RS, it's fun in different ways even at low speeds. Mostly because of the engine character. The engine should not be overlooked. It's the heart of the car.

I have no doubt, I think they are awesome cars. But I could not drive a FRS, R26, etc the way I drive the heap on a daily basis. Flip side being when I have to use the Mway, I'm in a s**t car for that purpose.
But then I'm lucky, and I try and make sure I work in as many places as possible that include b-roads on the way in!

 

[Greeny.]

They both have their pros and cons, price being the big one really! I would have an RS any day off the week if I could afford one, but for the money id rather get something else.

The Williams is just epic but these days im not sure I would want one for a daily driver, as a weekend/track toy maybe but not for anything else.

 

[nth]

They both have their pros and cons, price being the big one really! I would have an RS any day off the week if I could afford one, but for the money id rather get something else.

The Williams is just epic but these days im not sure I would want one for a daily driver, as a weekend/track toy maybe but not for anything else.

...this is due to age though, a megane and focus would be a better comparison. Which has been done already.

 

[Wobba]

I'd love to see a manufacturer with the balls to make a car like the 106 Rallye again.

Doubt it will happen though.

Some valid points here. Good read.

 

[Greeny.]

I would love to own a Williams as a second car, I seriously love them in standard form, hopefully one day this will happen if there are still any around

 

[Sir_Dave]

I'd love to see a manufacturer with the balls to make a car like the 106 Rallye again.

+ 1.

Here's another point for people to argue over.

My saxo is actually far more fun than my Trophy ...

 

[KungFuSpaghetti]

It just looks like an old shed.

That's guaranteed in better condition that whatever car you own... which last I saw was a bright yellow Puma? pmsl

Saw this vid, nice to see the Williams being given kudos, shame the guy reviewing it was lacking in any charisma or personality though.

 

[Gally]

How can you guarantee it's in better condition. :S I could have a new fiesta.

The fiesta would be in better "condition" Therfore your point is invalid.

 

[coatesy]

I'd love to see a manufacturer with the balls to make a car like the 106 Rallye again.

Doubt it will happen though.

Some valid points here. Good read.

r26.r not hardcore anuth?

 

[ForceIndia]

r26.r not hardcore anuth?

It's not about that. You can drive the nuts off a rallye without doing silly speeds.

 

[Sarah]

It's not about that. You can drive the nuts off a rallye without doing silly speeds.

this is what has been 'lost' in a hot hatch tbh

 

[Sir_Dave]

this is what has been 'lost' in a hot hatch tbh

+ 1 million.

 

[MikeyK18]

Does nobody find the PH1 172 is a nice comparsion between say a R26 megane and a clio williams?

I recently test drove a FRS and i must say i loved the handling and the power but i was a bit disappointed to get the fun factor feeling i had to be going a lot harder in the focus than i would in the 172. Saying that, i have never driven a williams or a 205GTi (Which i really want too!!! lol).

I havent driven the 172 for about a month now as ive had a diesel a4 **boke** but i will have it back on the road within the next week or so and tbh i cant wait to get into a car which will make me smile the way the 172 does when i get it into the twisties! lol

 

[ForceIndia]

Everyone should drive a 205 gti, at least once. Drive it hard, it'll scare you silly, but you'll grin like a maniac.

 

[MikeyK18]

Everyone should drive a 205 gti, at least once. Drive it hard, it'll scare you silly, but you'll grin like a maniac.

My dad's mate has 2 of them and he loves them! One white and one red! Must ask him for a wee drive in one of them!

 

[Sir_Dave]

Everyone should drive a 205 gti, at least once. Drive it hard, it'll scare you silly, but you'll grin like a maniac.

Or a stripped saxo on decent Bilstein/Faulkner suspension.

Rear end + no weight = one of the most throttle adjustable FWD chassis ever invented. Ever. Utter Brilliance.

 

[Munson]

205GTi is a legendary car. Driven one a few times. Like being in a foil pie tray with a big engine.

 

[ForceIndia]

205GTi is a legendary car. Driven one a few times. Like being in a foil pie tray with a big engine.

It's the way you think about backing off, your toe twitches, and the back instantly moves!

 

[ForceIndia]

I think in summary, they're both epic in very different ways. Both do things the other can't.

 

[MazzaR26]

You could drive a Williams at 8/10, revel in the movement going into a corner, and how purely the car reacts to every input, at speeds that will barely bother anyone.
In a Meg/FRS and similar, driving at 5/10's you're in licence losing territory.

This is so true, it is why I still prefer my valver over the R26 when it comes to fun factor.

 

[Naith]

christ.... 2_live's c**k will explode when he see's this!

 

[Gally]

^ Was my first thought!

 

[KungFuSpaghetti]

christ.... 2_live's c**k will explode when he see's this!

lol, it's been posted on WC already so he's seen it mate.

Not really anything to get excited over though, the cars cannot be compared from a performance perspective, just personal preference really.

and Gally, if you do own a new fiesta then it's probably not in as good condition, the chap who's sorting the other halfs car body work has rejected his brand new FRS due to 56 imperfections in the paint

 

[Gally]

You can tell him from me he's a vagina.

A new fiesta will be in better condition that that williams, I don't care what number it is.

 

[Daz.]

Everyone should drive a 205 gti, at least once. Drive it hard, it'll scare you silly, but you'll grin like a maniac.

This is so true, the std 1.9 was scary enough I can't imagine what a tuned one would be like!

 

[Munson]

It's the way you think about backing off, your toe twitches, and the back instantly moves!

I did have one or two scary moments!

As an aside, the RS is also very throttle adjustable. It will easily wag its tail. The downside is that adjusting the balance smoothly on the throttle takes lots of practise, as the delivery is very very boost laden. You're dumping boost rather than slowly backing off like in an NA car. Albeit with the added joy of chirps, whistles and pops

 

[The Spaniard]

The Williams and Focus RS are not really in the same class. Personally I think the Audi Quatro and Delta Integrale are better comparisons to the FRS. I agree with most people on this thread, newer cars are too fast, too safe and too grippy to be fun.

There is a video on one of the car magazine sites of a drag race between an mk1 RS, a new RS and an Escort cosworth and the cosworth shows its stuff off the line. The RS doesnt get back until licence losing speeds. Of course it is all over by then in reality. This shows the inherent problems with powerful FWD cars. The manufacturers just keep adding more and more power and its ruining balance and involvement.

Personally i think the RS has advanced things one third of five eighths of nothing.