182cup & 172 racecar
As I said,ring me when you have less time.
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Burpspeed Version 2: Race Car Build
- Thread starter Jay Payne
- Start date
Sheilas’ Wheels
ClioSport Moderator
Whichever has fuel
More time?
Looking forward to Anglesey!!!!
Nice and shiny, I do love that carbon plenum
182cup & 172 racecar
It seem's such a long time now, and May also seem's to be light years away.
182cup & 172 racecar
One bit of good news.
The Van passed it's MOT today!! Cost me a bag of chips and a Saveloy mind.
The Van passed it's MOT today!! Cost me a bag of chips and a Saveloy mind.
172 Race Car
UPDATE:
Engine build:
During the 2011 season myself and Tony decided to look into doing something with the engine. The one in the car was very tired and was down on compression from day one. Although it was still getting us good results we felt that the rest of the car had progressed to the point where the motor was becoming the weak link. We had bought a spare engine just in case and it sat quietly in the corner of the workshop for over a year. We handed the task over to Dan at 519 Automotive and over the next few months, and many late nights on messenger, we trashed out a rough spec for the engine based on budget, performance and reliability requirements. We sent the spare engine up to Dan after the Anglesey weekend, there was no rush for the build as we always intended it to be for 2012.
First job was for him to strip the engine down. It was eventful. Two headbolts sheared off, leaving a challenge to remove the head, then once it was off, detonation damage was discovered.
We had been sold this engine as a perfectly working and well serviced unit, but
on stripping the bottom end it became clear there had been an oil supply issue to the crank. All the journals and bearing shells were scored heavily. When the pistons were removed, the biggest surprise of all appeared. The circlip had come out of one piston, allowing the gudgeon pin to come into contact with the bore leaving a deep groove which was beyond even reboring. The circlip eventually turned up, jammed in the oil pump.
At this point we decided the head was just about salvageable, and worth using as it was a phase 1 version with the larger exhaust ports to start with, but the entire bottom end was scrap.
Another bottom end was sourced that had come from a low mileage 182. Having sat around for a while it was a bit dusty, but there didn’t seem anything to worry about with condition, and a full strip down confirmed it to be in absolutely perfect condition. Probably the best used block you could wish to come across. Luck was on our side for once.
Balancing: Dan told us that experience has shown that the F4R responds well to dynamic balancing. As our engine was for racing it definitely deserved the best treatment, so a race tolerance balance was opted for. This engine proved itself to be a great base again, and the crank required no modification at all, impressive for a mass production engine!! The conrods, with new ARP bolts fitted needed a little work. They were all weight matched and end to end balanced.
From this point it was a job of assembly and clearance checking. We decided to stick with the stock pistons for cost and reliability reasons so these were acid cleaned and came up like new. Piston ring end gaps all checked and adjusted where necessary in freshly honed bores. Main and big bearing clearances plastigauged, and crank thrust float measured.The bottom end was now fresh and solid.
The cylinder head was an area we had spoken at some length about improving. The head was in poor condition but was able to be saved. The ph1 172 head as already mentioned is generally regarded as the best standard head for performance, so as we had this for a starting point we were very happy. Still room for improvement though, and a few hours of fettling later, a reworked head which should improve the breathing of the engine all round.
The stock valves on a Renault F4R are a two 2 piece valve with the head friction welded to the stem. This has been known to lead to failure in extreme cases. As our main brief to Dan was reliability we opted for a set of one piece Supertech valves. Inconel exhaust and nitrided inlets.
Cams: Another subject of lengthy conversation. We came to the decision that due to retaining the stock pistons, and thus limiting cam choice, we would use Catcams 421 profile. Dan reported seeing very good results from them with Throttle bodies. As luck would have it a low mileage set became available at just the right time. We have also retained the VVT/De-Phaser
Engine build:
During the 2011 season myself and Tony decided to look into doing something with the engine. The one in the car was very tired and was down on compression from day one. Although it was still getting us good results we felt that the rest of the car had progressed to the point where the motor was becoming the weak link. We had bought a spare engine just in case and it sat quietly in the corner of the workshop for over a year. We handed the task over to Dan at 519 Automotive and over the next few months, and many late nights on messenger, we trashed out a rough spec for the engine based on budget, performance and reliability requirements. We sent the spare engine up to Dan after the Anglesey weekend, there was no rush for the build as we always intended it to be for 2012.
First job was for him to strip the engine down. It was eventful. Two headbolts sheared off, leaving a challenge to remove the head, then once it was off, detonation damage was discovered.
We had been sold this engine as a perfectly working and well serviced unit, but
on stripping the bottom end it became clear there had been an oil supply issue to the crank. All the journals and bearing shells were scored heavily. When the pistons were removed, the biggest surprise of all appeared. The circlip had come out of one piston, allowing the gudgeon pin to come into contact with the bore leaving a deep groove which was beyond even reboring. The circlip eventually turned up, jammed in the oil pump.
At this point we decided the head was just about salvageable, and worth using as it was a phase 1 version with the larger exhaust ports to start with, but the entire bottom end was scrap.
Another bottom end was sourced that had come from a low mileage 182. Having sat around for a while it was a bit dusty, but there didn’t seem anything to worry about with condition, and a full strip down confirmed it to be in absolutely perfect condition. Probably the best used block you could wish to come across. Luck was on our side for once.
Balancing: Dan told us that experience has shown that the F4R responds well to dynamic balancing. As our engine was for racing it definitely deserved the best treatment, so a race tolerance balance was opted for. This engine proved itself to be a great base again, and the crank required no modification at all, impressive for a mass production engine!! The conrods, with new ARP bolts fitted needed a little work. They were all weight matched and end to end balanced.
From this point it was a job of assembly and clearance checking. We decided to stick with the stock pistons for cost and reliability reasons so these were acid cleaned and came up like new. Piston ring end gaps all checked and adjusted where necessary in freshly honed bores. Main and big bearing clearances plastigauged, and crank thrust float measured.The bottom end was now fresh and solid.
The cylinder head was an area we had spoken at some length about improving. The head was in poor condition but was able to be saved. The ph1 172 head as already mentioned is generally regarded as the best standard head for performance, so as we had this for a starting point we were very happy. Still room for improvement though, and a few hours of fettling later, a reworked head which should improve the breathing of the engine all round.
The stock valves on a Renault F4R are a two 2 piece valve with the head friction welded to the stem. This has been known to lead to failure in extreme cases. As our main brief to Dan was reliability we opted for a set of one piece Supertech valves. Inconel exhaust and nitrided inlets.
Cams: Another subject of lengthy conversation. We came to the decision that due to retaining the stock pistons, and thus limiting cam choice, we would use Catcams 421 profile. Dan reported seeing very good results from them with Throttle bodies. As luck would have it a low mileage set became available at just the right time. We have also retained the VVT/De-Phaser
So it was just a case of building it all up with new seals, gaskets, water pump etc and it was ready for fitting.
Having all the parts to hand, checked and ready made fitting the engine a straight forward job. It fired up nicely and after a sorting a few fuel and coolant leaks all was well. The fuel rail we have been using was the stock Renault item. Now the car is up and running again we are going to swap to an AT power rail for reliability and also run the fuel pressure a little higher. Lots of small jobs to do before it goes for calibration, once again at Tour De Force.
172 Race Car
Fuel rail and oil cooler:
Were booked in at Tour-De-Force next week to get the new engine calibrated, in the meantime there is a few things we needed to finish off. For the last 2 seasons the car has run the standard plastic road car fuel rail, we have never been happy with the way the fuel lines joined together, it was a possible weak point.
We decided to swap to a solid AT Power fuel rail, also increasing the fuel pressure with a new regulator at the same time. It was a fairly straight forward job.
We are quite pleased how neat the fuel lines came out, the 180′ bend was quite expensive but makes a very tidy job of it. Another little job that we finished off was to fit an oil cooler/heat exchanger.
So that’s the engine bay complete and we’re all ready for our trip to TDF to see how many Gee Gee’s we have to play with this season………
Excitement building.
Were booked in at Tour-De-Force next week to get the new engine calibrated, in the meantime there is a few things we needed to finish off. For the last 2 seasons the car has run the standard plastic road car fuel rail, we have never been happy with the way the fuel lines joined together, it was a possible weak point.
We decided to swap to a solid AT Power fuel rail, also increasing the fuel pressure with a new regulator at the same time. It was a fairly straight forward job.
We are quite pleased how neat the fuel lines came out, the 180′ bend was quite expensive but makes a very tidy job of it. Another little job that we finished off was to fit an oil cooler/heat exchanger.
So that’s the engine bay complete and we’re all ready for our trip to TDF to see how many Gee Gee’s we have to play with this season………
Excitement building.
I read it and I don't understand it! I'm trying to convince the Mrs that we should come to a race this year. We'll see how much decorating I can get done.
Just want to see you spin again Jay, considering its putting out about 30bhp more than the Vee did!
P.S Tony, I've been on a B&Q hammer training course.
Just want to see you spin again Jay, considering its putting out about 30bhp more than the Vee did!
P.S Tony, I've been on a B&Q hammer training course.
182cup & 172 racecar
Hammer or Horror.
172 cup, Impreza P1
Very good power, but why 95ron?
Love the build guys. Any more pics of your fuel setup?
182cup & 172 racecar
Psycho... That famous scene in the shower with the knife..... I got to put a new shower up tomorrow. Might be recreated with a hammer.
172 Race Car
Posted in your thread all the stuff/info/pics we have
172 Race Car
Provisonal Calendar of Events 2012
7th May – Brands Hatch Indy
26th May – Silverstone National
30th June – Anglesey Coastal
21/22 July – Castle Combe
26/27 August – Mallory Park
15/16 September – Donington Park
6th October – Oulton Park International
:approve:
26th May – Silverstone National
30th June – Anglesey Coastal
21/22 July – Castle Combe
26/27 August – Mallory Park
15/16 September – Donington Park
6th October – Oulton Park International
:approve:
She can drive! :drunk:
172 cup, Impreza P1
What cheaper fuel? Surely the performance gain for the price difference is worth it?
It's only about 5p a litre dearer for tesco 99.
172 cup, Impreza P1
Yeah, got it and thanks again. Just what I need!
182cup & 172 racecar
I'm not explaining why, but no.
Great result guys! Really nice engine spec and it should be super reliable with the modifications you have gone for Look forward to seeing the car at some point in the near future!
Look forward to seeing the car at some point in the near future!
Clio.
De-shroud the valves for a bit better flow....
Andrew cooke published some interesting results on RTIOC when he experimented with the head and inlets on the F4R.
Andrew cooke published some interesting results on RTIOC when he experimented with the head and inlets on the F4R.
Yes Jay I think its the best way really and then you know you have an engine that you push but will also last a long time
Yes it definitely will if its getting 213 on 95! Sounds interesting and I hope everything goes well and I will keep an eye out for updates!
Evo 5 RS
Great result! Why not keep the injectors though lads? I know thats within limitations but surely better to be running at a lower duty on the meggys?
EDIT: Missed an entire update there somehow, top work
EDIT: Missed an entire update there somehow, top work
Last edited:
Nafoff
ClioSport Club Member
212BHP, its not cammed either is it?
if not, its the same figure that mine is making (cammed), good work
will deffo be attending at least 1 event this season
if not, its the same figure that mine is making (cammed), good work
will deffo be attending at least 1 event this season
172 Race Car
182cup & 172 racecar
Come on Neil keep up.
We were meant to video it, but got carried away having a tidy up and missed it.
We were meant to video it, but got carried away having a tidy up and missed it.
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