Mr Underhill
ClioSport Club Member
He did a brilliant job. Car was flipping amazing on track.
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Fred and James’ Clio 182 Racecar Project
- Thread starter FrogJam Motorsport
- Start date
-
- Tags
- 182 race racecar track track build
JamesBryan
ClioSport Club Member
What was the lad getting it mapped for if you'd already had it done. Had he made changes?
Mr Underhill
ClioSport Club Member
No I think he’d forgotten 😂
He messaged me to say he was at Donny racing in Hot Hatch series and did I want to come down. Then said he’d just had it mapped at EFi. I’m like, “I told you he’d already done it“ and he’s like “s**t” so you did 🤦🏻♂️
Same power but a bit more torque.
He has plenty of money.
FrogJam Motorsport
ClioSport Trader
Post 48
And now for something completely different…
I’m not sure how many of you on here follow us on instagram, but if you do you will have a seen a few days ago we launched our very own website:
www.frogjammotorsport.co.uk
The idea for this came from wanting a good platform to try and sell our own designed items, but then also the mixed bag we have seen and experienced when ordering items for this build online, and knowing we could do better. So we decided to try our hand at retailing not only our own things, but other aftermarket products too. We have been working on the site behind the scenes for a few months now; negotiating with suppliers, sorting through stock, and generally developing/designing the site. It’s now at a place where we are happy with the way it looks and works, so we officially launched it a week or two ago, and we’ve already processed a few orders which is all quite exciting!
To try set ourselves apart we’re only listing items we’ve actually got physically in stock ready to send, we do same day dispatch. we’ve priced things as keenly as possible and, in a move that will have Mr Bezos shaking in his boots, there are free postage options too - something that seems to get completely overlooked .
Anyway, enough rambling, go and check it out and let us know what you think - any and all feedback is gratefully received! Meantime we’re working on new products to list, and also trying to get in touch with admin on here to become official ‘traders’ for the forum (If you see this please contact us).
And now for something completely different…
I’m not sure how many of you on here follow us on instagram, but if you do you will have a seen a few days ago we launched our very own website:
www.frogjammotorsport.co.uk
The idea for this came from wanting a good platform to try and sell our own designed items, but then also the mixed bag we have seen and experienced when ordering items for this build online, and knowing we could do better. So we decided to try our hand at retailing not only our own things, but other aftermarket products too. We have been working on the site behind the scenes for a few months now; negotiating with suppliers, sorting through stock, and generally developing/designing the site. It’s now at a place where we are happy with the way it looks and works, so we officially launched it a week or two ago, and we’ve already processed a few orders which is all quite exciting!
To try set ourselves apart we’re only listing items we’ve actually got physically in stock ready to send, we do same day dispatch. we’ve priced things as keenly as possible and, in a move that will have Mr Bezos shaking in his boots, there are free postage options too - something that seems to get completely overlooked .
Anyway, enough rambling, go and check it out and let us know what you think - any and all feedback is gratefully received! Meantime we’re working on new products to list, and also trying to get in touch with admin on here to become official ‘traders’ for the forum (If you see this please contact us).
FrogJam Motorsport
ClioSport Trader
always one isnt there
Yes you’re right though, should have been worded differently - you’ll notice you can’t actually buy those atm which sort of highlights what I was trying to convey. We’ve had it a few times where we’ve bought and paid for things and then been sat waiting for weeks (and in some cases months) for them to arrive which is rather annoying and something we want to avoid.
FrogJam Motorsport
ClioSport Trader
Post Number 49
Time for the winter upgrade posts! All has taken a lot longer than planned, however as of last week the car has been mapped again and the first trackday is booked for the end of July.
Will break the posts down into the following:
These are some pictures whilst taking it apart before it went off for a rebuild. This time we have rebuilt it with a new casing as the last box ended up having a crack in it.
The gearbox oil filter had done a brilliant job at catching the finer parts with the larger chunks were stuck in the drain line/oil filter feed line.
Last chance for the JC5 and gripper combo, if it goes again will have to have a rethink what goes in next.
Next post will be about the pedal box and ABS system.
Time for the winter upgrade posts! All has taken a lot longer than planned, however as of last week the car has been mapped again and the first trackday is booked for the end of July.
Will break the posts down into the following:
- Another broken gearbox (this post)
- Pedal Box / ABS
- Radiator / front bumper beam
- F2000 Dry Sump
- ITBs / Wiring looms
- Battery / Mapping
These are some pictures whilst taking it apart before it went off for a rebuild. This time we have rebuilt it with a new casing as the last box ended up having a crack in it.
The gearbox oil filter had done a brilliant job at catching the finer parts with the larger chunks were stuck in the drain line/oil filter feed line.
Last chance for the JC5 and gripper combo, if it goes again will have to have a rethink what goes in next.
Next post will be about the pedal box and ABS system.
FrogJam Motorsport
ClioSport Trader
Post number 50.
Pedal Box and ABS unit.
After running the standard pedal box for a year and a half we could not get the balance/bias we were after. We were constantly locking the rear wheels which we got use to and just about managed to convince ourselves to come off the brakes to come back on them in order to slow down but still not ideal. We tried unplugging the brake booster like many do in order to get more ‘feel’ but felt we had to push so hard we didn’t gain any benefit or extra feel. Therefore we decided to go for a proper pedal box with independent master cylinders and bias bar so we could push the bias further forward to stop the rears locking up so easily.
As I am rather lanky it was important to retain the leg room so opted for a bulkhead mounted setup. We started out with a Tilton 800 series brake and clutch pedal box with a 600 series throttle pedal as we were going to have a DBW setup regardless of whether we had the standard manifold or ITBs. The 800 series was chosen over the 600 series so that the series 79 master cylinders would work which are the fancy abs compatible ones. The main pedal box assembly is the exact same apart from an additional bracket which allows the bearing mounted master cylinder end to mount to the pedal box.
A mounting frame was needed to bridge the existing standard pedal box mounting locations and the mounting points for the Tilton box. I used the Tilton CAD models to get a rough idea of what was needed but then was just going to have to make most of it up as I went along to make sure the pedals were as high and as central as possible with out coming too close to the scuttle and steering column. So after the initial concept a lot of trial and error was needed. But in the end got a basic frame together where the brake and clutch pedals seemed in a good place.
The first issue came with how the Tilton throttle pedal mounts. The mount it comes with intends to use similar mounting locations as the pedal box itself. However, this meant the throttle pedal ended up miles away from the brake pedal, not only side ways distance but depth as well. Basically a very poor design from Tilton, whether this works better with under slung or floor mounted setups I don’t know but certainly seemed a massive after though. You would have needed a monster foot for any heel and toe action. Therefore new design needed. Made a new bearing housing which mounted to the side of the pedal box which then gave a very similar position between the brake and throttle as the standard pedal box but with some adjustability so we could fine tune the position at a later date.
Once painted in the finest Upol gloss black it looks pretty good however.
Pedal Box and ABS unit.
After running the standard pedal box for a year and a half we could not get the balance/bias we were after. We were constantly locking the rear wheels which we got use to and just about managed to convince ourselves to come off the brakes to come back on them in order to slow down but still not ideal. We tried unplugging the brake booster like many do in order to get more ‘feel’ but felt we had to push so hard we didn’t gain any benefit or extra feel. Therefore we decided to go for a proper pedal box with independent master cylinders and bias bar so we could push the bias further forward to stop the rears locking up so easily.
As I am rather lanky it was important to retain the leg room so opted for a bulkhead mounted setup. We started out with a Tilton 800 series brake and clutch pedal box with a 600 series throttle pedal as we were going to have a DBW setup regardless of whether we had the standard manifold or ITBs. The 800 series was chosen over the 600 series so that the series 79 master cylinders would work which are the fancy abs compatible ones. The main pedal box assembly is the exact same apart from an additional bracket which allows the bearing mounted master cylinder end to mount to the pedal box.
A mounting frame was needed to bridge the existing standard pedal box mounting locations and the mounting points for the Tilton box. I used the Tilton CAD models to get a rough idea of what was needed but then was just going to have to make most of it up as I went along to make sure the pedals were as high and as central as possible with out coming too close to the scuttle and steering column. So after the initial concept a lot of trial and error was needed. But in the end got a basic frame together where the brake and clutch pedals seemed in a good place.
The first issue came with how the Tilton throttle pedal mounts. The mount it comes with intends to use similar mounting locations as the pedal box itself. However, this meant the throttle pedal ended up miles away from the brake pedal, not only side ways distance but depth as well. Basically a very poor design from Tilton, whether this works better with under slung or floor mounted setups I don’t know but certainly seemed a massive after though. You would have needed a monster foot for any heel and toe action. Therefore new design needed. Made a new bearing housing which mounted to the side of the pedal box which then gave a very similar position between the brake and throttle as the standard pedal box but with some adjustability so we could fine tune the position at a later date.
Once painted in the finest Upol gloss black it looks pretty good however.
FrogJam Motorsport
ClioSport Trader
Post number 50 continued.
The second part of the brake system to change was to fit ABS back into the car. We originally took it out to simplify things and had the assumption without abs was better. However, many of the people we raced with had abs and certainly gives an advantage having it and that’s before you start talking about wet races. We were always nervous about following people too closely incase we locked up, it would cause a mess of the front of the Clio and a mess of the rear of the other car, which at the level of racing we’re doing what is the point of risking it. Ruins both of your weekends let alone significant cost for both sides. So our thinking now is why wouldn’t you have it if you could. If it saves a ruined weekend then it would be worth it. The problem being is we are not aware the clio ABS unit can run without including the originally ecu and uch which our car does not have. So we are using a similar unit from a bmw which can run on its own.
As we are fitting the abs unit, individual hoses/lines to each corner are needed meaning none of the existing hard lines are able to be used. Not only from an ease point of view but also after having the hardline crack at Donington we are trying Hel Performance braided lines for the whole car. Measured and ordered each individual line. We then have spare hose and fittings so we can always make up a line if we have an issue with one.
Was concerned having the reservoir in the scuttle was going to make it hard to access but actually both for filling and attaching the pressure bleeder it is better than the standard position.
A bit of a late change came regarding the bias proportioning valve. Team Prawn Racing who has an Audi A3 racecar (bbboooooooo!! But he seems a decent bloke and makes interesting videos so will let him off not having a Clio) was having similar problems regarding brake bias and seemingly his Tilton bias valve was doing nothing. Not only was this based on feel but he also had a pressure reading for front and back and it did not change when moving the bias fully forward and fully back on the valve. After speaking with a few people and the supplier for Tilton they all said the Tilton bias valves and crap and don’t work. So he changed to an AP Racing proportioning valve and then he was getting a big change when going fully forward and fully back. So after watching this video a new AP Racing valve was ordered.
Managed to mount it in the same location as the Tilton one so still looked nice and neat.
Still yet to test the new system on track but so far the abs unit is providing a warning light and wheel speeds to the ADU and managed to connect to the ABS unit via OBD to enable the bleed system/cycle. The proportioning valve now makes a large difference fully forward and fully rear regarding the pressure differential. Having the combination of bias bar and proportioning valve means we will be able to fine tune the bias now. However the system still needs proving out but so far so good and is looking promising. Will give an update to how we get on with it post the first trackday. Potentially sooner if we manage to sneak a test day in at Teesside.
The second part of the brake system to change was to fit ABS back into the car. We originally took it out to simplify things and had the assumption without abs was better. However, many of the people we raced with had abs and certainly gives an advantage having it and that’s before you start talking about wet races. We were always nervous about following people too closely incase we locked up, it would cause a mess of the front of the Clio and a mess of the rear of the other car, which at the level of racing we’re doing what is the point of risking it. Ruins both of your weekends let alone significant cost for both sides. So our thinking now is why wouldn’t you have it if you could. If it saves a ruined weekend then it would be worth it. The problem being is we are not aware the clio ABS unit can run without including the originally ecu and uch which our car does not have. So we are using a similar unit from a bmw which can run on its own.
As we are fitting the abs unit, individual hoses/lines to each corner are needed meaning none of the existing hard lines are able to be used. Not only from an ease point of view but also after having the hardline crack at Donington we are trying Hel Performance braided lines for the whole car. Measured and ordered each individual line. We then have spare hose and fittings so we can always make up a line if we have an issue with one.
Was concerned having the reservoir in the scuttle was going to make it hard to access but actually both for filling and attaching the pressure bleeder it is better than the standard position.
A bit of a late change came regarding the bias proportioning valve. Team Prawn Racing who has an Audi A3 racecar (bbboooooooo!! But he seems a decent bloke and makes interesting videos so will let him off not having a Clio) was having similar problems regarding brake bias and seemingly his Tilton bias valve was doing nothing. Not only was this based on feel but he also had a pressure reading for front and back and it did not change when moving the bias fully forward and fully back on the valve. After speaking with a few people and the supplier for Tilton they all said the Tilton bias valves and crap and don’t work. So he changed to an AP Racing proportioning valve and then he was getting a big change when going fully forward and fully back. So after watching this video a new AP Racing valve was ordered.
Managed to mount it in the same location as the Tilton one so still looked nice and neat.
Still yet to test the new system on track but so far the abs unit is providing a warning light and wheel speeds to the ADU and managed to connect to the ABS unit via OBD to enable the bleed system/cycle. The proportioning valve now makes a large difference fully forward and fully rear regarding the pressure differential. Having the combination of bias bar and proportioning valve means we will be able to fine tune the bias now. However the system still needs proving out but so far so good and is looking promising. Will give an update to how we get on with it post the first trackday. Potentially sooner if we manage to sneak a test day in at Teesside.
Robbie Corbett
ClioSport Club Member
Take it thats the MK60 unit as fitted to many a BMW?
There are some useful bias charts floating about which you might find handy:
thebuildjournal.com
I know many people have fitted the MK60 system as standalone into cars over the years with varying levels of success. Its might be worth adding in a couple of line sensors so you can datalog brake pressure front/rear. The MK60 has various operational modes including corner brake control and electronic brake proportioning, which applies a varying (from brake pedal) pressure to each corner so results with incorrect (according to programming) brake bias or when using an external bias control might not always be as you expect - drive you a little crazy without logs.
This is another good source of info should you need it:
I did a little work about 10 years ago with a company wanting to make their aftermarket ecu speak to the MK60 unit properly so they could use the more advanced functions like DSC and traction which didn't ever come to much for a number of reasons - would have been a cool project if it went further than initial discussion!
Looking superb btw
There are some useful bias charts floating about which you might find handy:
Brake Bias Chart for BMW E46 M3 • Buildjournal
Let us tell you why brake bias is important. Just because you have a bigger caliper, doesn't necessarily mean that you have more stopping power.
thebuildjournal.com
I know many people have fitted the MK60 system as standalone into cars over the years with varying levels of success. Its might be worth adding in a couple of line sensors so you can datalog brake pressure front/rear. The MK60 has various operational modes including corner brake control and electronic brake proportioning, which applies a varying (from brake pedal) pressure to each corner so results with incorrect (according to programming) brake bias or when using an external bias control might not always be as you expect - drive you a little crazy without logs.
This is another good source of info should you need it:
I did a little work about 10 years ago with a company wanting to make their aftermarket ecu speak to the MK60 unit properly so they could use the more advanced functions like DSC and traction which didn't ever come to much for a number of reasons - would have been a cool project if it went further than initial discussion!
Looking superb btw
scotiamr2t
ClioSport Club Member
Mazda 2, Ph1 172
@FrogJam Motorsport be interesting to see what you make of the ABS unit.
I have been researching the Renault ABS units wiring to see about putting ABS back into my ph1 with a pedalbox. From the research I’ve done so far it looks like it will work without the Renault UCH & ECU
I have been researching the Renault ABS units wiring to see about putting ABS back into my ph1 with a pedalbox. From the research I’ve done so far it looks like it will work without the Renault UCH & ECU
FrogJam Motorsport
ClioSport Trader
Very interesting! Pretty sure with a change in loom we should be able to swap to the Renault unit if it’s doable. Any idea what sensors are required to be kept?
Would like to know if it’s doable though, from what people have said we assumed it was a firm no.
Robbie Corbett
ClioSport Club Member
Worth keeping an eye out on eBay and motorsport type forums. The motorsport version of the MK60 does pop up from time to time and is fully programmable.
FrogJam Motorsport
ClioSport Trader
The trouble with the motorsport version is that most club level race series won’t allow them hence why we just want a standard production unit to keep our options open to what we can run in.
Robbie Corbett
ClioSport Club Member
No way! I didn't even think they would know to check?!
FrogJam Motorsport
ClioSport Trader
I’m sure they wouldn’t know what to check but other competitors would soon complain if we started winning so not worth it.
From our experience they don’t check anything like that until someone complains and MSA scrutineers only care about safety items. But certainly could be different for other series.
FrogJam Motorsport
ClioSport Trader
Post number 51.
Where is this year going!! Been a busy few months with the car. Will get caught up eventually.
The cooling system needed improving, during a 45 minute race the temperatures would get too high. Engine oil and gearbox oil would get up to 120 degrees, as both engine and gearbox oil coolers use the coolant to extract heat the coolant temperature needed to be reduced.
The idea was to have a custom radiator made to make it as large as possible and modify the front bumper beam to increase air flow to the radiator and allow space for a duct to connect the bumper opening to the full area of the radiator.
First step was to take the plunge and chop the bumper beam and remove the centre section.
I wanted to have the centre section removable to allow access to the front of the engine if needed and to allow the radiator to be removed without having to remove the ITBs.
I roll bent some 40mm tube to replicate the same curve as the existing bumper beam and made end plates to match the existing shape of the bumper beam to spread the load.
To make sure the bumper still fits and maintains the existing mounting method, I trimmed off the flat top part of the bumper beam and welded it to the top of the new tube. This allowed the bumper to fit using the same mounting as before.
Placed the old radiator in place to visualise and measure what size to make the new radiator. I had a rough plan of what I wanted it to look like but was still making it up as I went along.
Used a sheet of MDF as a template for the size of the new radiator before getting it made.
Once the centre section is unbolted there is then just enough space to allow the radiator to swing out.
Made a couple of bent aluminium brackets mounted on rubber to hold the top of the radiator and the bottom is on 10mm pins and rubber pads. This is then the gap which will be bridged with the duct.
Where is this year going!! Been a busy few months with the car. Will get caught up eventually.
The cooling system needed improving, during a 45 minute race the temperatures would get too high. Engine oil and gearbox oil would get up to 120 degrees, as both engine and gearbox oil coolers use the coolant to extract heat the coolant temperature needed to be reduced.
The idea was to have a custom radiator made to make it as large as possible and modify the front bumper beam to increase air flow to the radiator and allow space for a duct to connect the bumper opening to the full area of the radiator.
First step was to take the plunge and chop the bumper beam and remove the centre section.
I wanted to have the centre section removable to allow access to the front of the engine if needed and to allow the radiator to be removed without having to remove the ITBs.
I roll bent some 40mm tube to replicate the same curve as the existing bumper beam and made end plates to match the existing shape of the bumper beam to spread the load.
To make sure the bumper still fits and maintains the existing mounting method, I trimmed off the flat top part of the bumper beam and welded it to the top of the new tube. This allowed the bumper to fit using the same mounting as before.
Placed the old radiator in place to visualise and measure what size to make the new radiator. I had a rough plan of what I wanted it to look like but was still making it up as I went along.
Used a sheet of MDF as a template for the size of the new radiator before getting it made.
Once the centre section is unbolted there is then just enough space to allow the radiator to swing out.
Made a couple of bent aluminium brackets mounted on rubber to hold the top of the radiator and the bottom is on 10mm pins and rubber pads. This is then the gap which will be bridged with the duct.
FrogJam Motorsport
ClioSport Trader
Post Number 51 continued.
I have been wanting to try my hand with composites for a while so if anything needed to be made from composite then the duct was. Watched the easy composite videos many times over and took the plunge and bought the material to make a pattern.
With the radiator in place I made an MDF frame as a starting point to stick the foam too.
Then started attaching the foam to the MDF frame in the areas which needed shaping.
Then using a combination of expanding foam and car body filler I ended up with this.
Then after many coats of primer and sanding in between each coat I ended up with this.
This was the pattern for the duct complete. Not going to bore you all with the details of each step as easy composite have done brilliant videos on making patterns.
Ended up leaving this until after the car was up and running. So will complete the post in order so making the duct itself will be one for the future. But this is a little sneak peak of what the duct ended up looking like.
Dry sump kit post coming up next, will end up being a long one. Want to add as much detail as possible for this as there is hardly any information about them online.
I have been wanting to try my hand with composites for a while so if anything needed to be made from composite then the duct was. Watched the easy composite videos many times over and took the plunge and bought the material to make a pattern.
With the radiator in place I made an MDF frame as a starting point to stick the foam too.
Then started attaching the foam to the MDF frame in the areas which needed shaping.
Then using a combination of expanding foam and car body filler I ended up with this.
Then after many coats of primer and sanding in between each coat I ended up with this.
This was the pattern for the duct complete. Not going to bore you all with the details of each step as easy composite have done brilliant videos on making patterns.
Ended up leaving this until after the car was up and running. So will complete the post in order so making the duct itself will be one for the future. But this is a little sneak peak of what the duct ended up looking like.
Dry sump kit post coming up next, will end up being a long one. Want to add as much detail as possible for this as there is hardly any information about them online.
FrogJam Motorsport
ClioSport Trader
Cheers mate!
FrogJam Motorsport
ClioSport Trader
Post number 52 (Part 1/4).
F4R F3 Dry Sump System.
There were many different parts to sort for fitting the dry sump. First of all the kit purchased from Titan Motorsport did not include all the parts required for fitment as it was just what they had left in stock. So from the outset we knew we needed a crank pulley spacer, water pump inlet pipe and oil pickup pipe.
An oil tank will also be needed, we were keen to keep the tank in the engine bay, didn’t want to have to have long runs of oil lines and weren’t keen on having the tank inside the car. So fitting it in the engine bay was important.
Another unexpected change was to be able to keep the standard damped crank pulley the size of the oil pump pulley had to be increased significantly. However, by increasing the oil pump pulley diameter to keep the ratio between crank and pump pulley correct the water pump pulley does not fit. Therefore an electric water pump was needed.
The laminova oil coolers also needed to be moved, the oil pump sits exactly where the laminova coolers use to fit.
This is what we received from Titan Motorsport.
As you can see the crank pulley they use on the F3 cars is much smaller than the standard damped crank pulley. Hence the oil pump pulley and water pump pulley is also much smaller.
First thing was to start mocking up where everything needed to go. So sump on, spare gearbox casing on (whats left from the first gearbox incident) and engine into the car.
Picked a Craig David electric water pump (Davies Craig Alloy EWP115) which actually fits perfectly just in front of the gearbox and the radiator outlet goes straight into the pump. Then was working out where to place the Laminovas, best place I could think of was just underneath the oil pump which lines up very nicely with the water pump. Then would just need a pipe to connect laminova exit to the block inlet. By doing this the laminovas will be attached the engine so can all be fitted prior to putting the engine into the car.
Next was sorting out the oil tank. Went for an AH Fabrication 1.5 gallon splitable tank with sight tube and integrated catch can.
Had to have a play with the 3D scanner too, is good for working out if things will fit.
Didn’t want to have anything permanent incase things needed moving at a later date. So welded some plates to the chassis leg with nuts welded on the back of the plates so that a bracket could be bolted in place to hold the tank.
F4R F3 Dry Sump System.
There were many different parts to sort for fitting the dry sump. First of all the kit purchased from Titan Motorsport did not include all the parts required for fitment as it was just what they had left in stock. So from the outset we knew we needed a crank pulley spacer, water pump inlet pipe and oil pickup pipe.
An oil tank will also be needed, we were keen to keep the tank in the engine bay, didn’t want to have to have long runs of oil lines and weren’t keen on having the tank inside the car. So fitting it in the engine bay was important.
Another unexpected change was to be able to keep the standard damped crank pulley the size of the oil pump pulley had to be increased significantly. However, by increasing the oil pump pulley diameter to keep the ratio between crank and pump pulley correct the water pump pulley does not fit. Therefore an electric water pump was needed.
The laminova oil coolers also needed to be moved, the oil pump sits exactly where the laminova coolers use to fit.
This is what we received from Titan Motorsport.
As you can see the crank pulley they use on the F3 cars is much smaller than the standard damped crank pulley. Hence the oil pump pulley and water pump pulley is also much smaller.
First thing was to start mocking up where everything needed to go. So sump on, spare gearbox casing on (whats left from the first gearbox incident) and engine into the car.
Picked a Craig David electric water pump (Davies Craig Alloy EWP115) which actually fits perfectly just in front of the gearbox and the radiator outlet goes straight into the pump. Then was working out where to place the Laminovas, best place I could think of was just underneath the oil pump which lines up very nicely with the water pump. Then would just need a pipe to connect laminova exit to the block inlet. By doing this the laminovas will be attached the engine so can all be fitted prior to putting the engine into the car.
Next was sorting out the oil tank. Went for an AH Fabrication 1.5 gallon splitable tank with sight tube and integrated catch can.
Had to have a play with the 3D scanner too, is good for working out if things will fit.
Didn’t want to have anything permanent incase things needed moving at a later date. So welded some plates to the chassis leg with nuts welded on the back of the plates so that a bracket could be bolted in place to hold the tank.
FrogJam Motorsport
ClioSport Trader
Post number 52 continued (Part 2/4).
Next part which needed moving was the alternator. This needed moving both for the dry sump and the radiator. For the dry sump drive pulley bearing bracket to fit the lower lug on the block needs to be removed. This is where the previous alternator tensioner bolted to, hence needed to be moved up. Also wanted to move the alternator rearwards as much as possible to get space for the larger radiator but still needed to have space for the ITBs.
Got a new alternator from a scenic which has the tensioning lug a little further round than the 172 cup alternator. Meant the tensioner was in a good place and didn’t clash with the alternator or block. Made a new alternator mount which moved the alternator rearwards by 15-20mm, just gave that margin of space to the radiator and ITBs.
The next part that didn’t fit was the cam belt cover. As the dry sump kit has a different timing end cover the standard black plastic cover does not fit. Ours was also cracked. Made a stainless steel cover which turned out pretty well.
Another part that needed to be moved was the coolant tank. This was previous exactly where the oil tank ended up being. So this was moved to the LHS strut. Couple of bosses and a plate to allow the exisiting radium tank to bolt in place.
Next part which needed moving was the alternator. This needed moving both for the dry sump and the radiator. For the dry sump drive pulley bearing bracket to fit the lower lug on the block needs to be removed. This is where the previous alternator tensioner bolted to, hence needed to be moved up. Also wanted to move the alternator rearwards as much as possible to get space for the larger radiator but still needed to have space for the ITBs.
Got a new alternator from a scenic which has the tensioning lug a little further round than the 172 cup alternator. Meant the tensioner was in a good place and didn’t clash with the alternator or block. Made a new alternator mount which moved the alternator rearwards by 15-20mm, just gave that margin of space to the radiator and ITBs.
The next part that didn’t fit was the cam belt cover. As the dry sump kit has a different timing end cover the standard black plastic cover does not fit. Ours was also cracked. Made a stainless steel cover which turned out pretty well.
Another part that needed to be moved was the coolant tank. This was previous exactly where the oil tank ended up being. So this was moved to the LHS strut. Couple of bosses and a plate to allow the exisiting radium tank to bolt in place.
FrogJam Motorsport
ClioSport Trader
Post number 52 Continued (Part 3/4).
Next was to make the 3 parts which weren’t included in the kit (crank pulley spacer, water pump inlet and oil pick up pipe).
Crank pulley spacer was a pretty straight forward part, matched the existing inner diameter and length and found a new seal which fitted the larger diameter hole in the timing end cover.
For the water pump inlet pipe I tried modifying a standard metal part rather than the plastic one but wasn’t tight enough and wasn’t confident it was up to the job. So I designed an aluminium plug with the same geometry as the standard plastic part on the inlet side and then geometry on the other side to allow universal aluminium tube to be welded to. This is the plug with a standard o ring on it.
Then using some ASH aluminium tube bends I was able to get a tight enough bend which fits behind the dry sump oil pump drive shaft to connect up to the laminova outlet.
Then last but not least was the oil pickup tube. Had seen a few different design of tube but tried to keep it simple and tried to keep the joints overlapped so that it was as easy to weld as possible as I am still getting to grips with TIG welding.
How the oil pick up tube needs to be fitted into a black insert which has to be fitted after attached the sump to the block. This is because there is a sump bolt behind it (yes very helpful). So similar to the water inlet plug I designed a oil pick up tube plug which copied the oil transfer pipe design.
Incorporated a stainless steel mesh in the pickup tube, not sure if it will really be needed because if there is debris in the sump its probably already gone through the engine so might just save the scavenge pump but seemed the right thing to do. Added an additional mounting hole in the sump so the pipe could be bolted in place so that prior to fitting the sump the pipe was in the correct position.
As we got these 3 parts turned, decided to get a batch of them done in case there was anyone else in the same position as us and needed the bits to make their own kit. We are selling these kits on our website so if you need them, please have a look at our website and if you need any further details about fitment then please get in touch.
https://frogjammotorsport.co.uk/products/frogjam-motorsport-dry-sump-fitting-kit-renault-f4r
Next was to make the 3 parts which weren’t included in the kit (crank pulley spacer, water pump inlet and oil pick up pipe).
Crank pulley spacer was a pretty straight forward part, matched the existing inner diameter and length and found a new seal which fitted the larger diameter hole in the timing end cover.
For the water pump inlet pipe I tried modifying a standard metal part rather than the plastic one but wasn’t tight enough and wasn’t confident it was up to the job. So I designed an aluminium plug with the same geometry as the standard plastic part on the inlet side and then geometry on the other side to allow universal aluminium tube to be welded to. This is the plug with a standard o ring on it.
Then using some ASH aluminium tube bends I was able to get a tight enough bend which fits behind the dry sump oil pump drive shaft to connect up to the laminova outlet.
Then last but not least was the oil pickup tube. Had seen a few different design of tube but tried to keep it simple and tried to keep the joints overlapped so that it was as easy to weld as possible as I am still getting to grips with TIG welding.
How the oil pick up tube needs to be fitted into a black insert which has to be fitted after attached the sump to the block. This is because there is a sump bolt behind it (yes very helpful). So similar to the water inlet plug I designed a oil pick up tube plug which copied the oil transfer pipe design.
Incorporated a stainless steel mesh in the pickup tube, not sure if it will really be needed because if there is debris in the sump its probably already gone through the engine so might just save the scavenge pump but seemed the right thing to do. Added an additional mounting hole in the sump so the pipe could be bolted in place so that prior to fitting the sump the pipe was in the correct position.
As we got these 3 parts turned, decided to get a batch of them done in case there was anyone else in the same position as us and needed the bits to make their own kit. We are selling these kits on our website so if you need them, please have a look at our website and if you need any further details about fitment then please get in touch.
https://frogjammotorsport.co.uk/products/frogjam-motorsport-dry-sump-fitting-kit-renault-f4r
FrogJam Motorsport
ClioSport Trader
Post Number 52 Continued (Part 4/4).
The last piece of the puzzle was a gearbox/dry sump adaptor plate. As the dry sump is much slimmer than the standard sump none of the bolt holes line up between the sump and the gearbox. As far as we are aware this gap is just left which we really weren’t keen on. So decided to make a 6mm steel adaptor plate which required 6mm to be machined off the sump.
Sump put back on for the final time, liquid gasket and titanium M7 bolts, some bolts needed to be longer than the standard sump bolts and couldn’t possibly use a mixture of bolts.
Engine and gearbox assembly with all the ancillary parts before going into the car.
This is the engine and gearbox in the car prior to sorting out all the hoses. Really pleased with how everything packaged, tight but all accessible. Felt like I was getting somewhere at this point.
The last piece of the puzzle was a gearbox/dry sump adaptor plate. As the dry sump is much slimmer than the standard sump none of the bolt holes line up between the sump and the gearbox. As far as we are aware this gap is just left which we really weren’t keen on. So decided to make a 6mm steel adaptor plate which required 6mm to be machined off the sump.
Sump put back on for the final time, liquid gasket and titanium M7 bolts, some bolts needed to be longer than the standard sump bolts and couldn’t possibly use a mixture of bolts.
Engine and gearbox assembly with all the ancillary parts before going into the car.
This is the engine and gearbox in the car prior to sorting out all the hoses. Really pleased with how everything packaged, tight but all accessible. Felt like I was getting somewhere at this point.
Mr Underhill
ClioSport Club Member
Just love it 😍
FrogJam Motorsport
ClioSport Trader
Post Number 53.
ITBs and wiring looms.
James found a used set of Jenvey/PMS ITBs and couldn’t resist. We were both intrigued with what power they would add and what sound difference they would make and they look cool so no reason not to really.
Still wanted to run drive by wire to be able to play with the throttle map and who knows what will happen in the future so being able to have auto blip etc might be useful. It should also be neater than having to run a cable. So the Jenvey actuator was bought too. It is rather neat how it fits underneath.
Also ended up adding an extra sensor so there is one on the ITBs and one on the actuator. Would then be able to check that they are always matching and can always swap the ecu over to the other if one breaks.
So with the ITBs going in we decided the fuel system needed a bit of an upgrade. Wanted to change to a return line to the tank. Had already plumbed the return line through the cabin so ‘just’ needed to attach it at either end.
New fuel pump unit with a return line fitted along with some T7 push to AN fittings.
Then up front added a radium fuel pressure regulator and re used the existing fittings we had.
Kept the dry break connector post fuel rail so we can pump fuel out if needs be without having to go through the pressure regulator.
The major change the ITBs made was the wiring. There was a few options here, either cut and modify the existing loom, make extensions for each connector which had moved or start from scratch. Decided to go with the start from scratch option. Felt there was too much needing to be moved and didn’t want to do a half arsed job with the wiring.
Had a better plan for the version 2 loom too. The first loom was just one big loom with everything on it using 2 bulkhead connectors. However with some good planning I could design it to have 2 separate looms with each loom just using one bulkhead connector.
One loom would service the RHS and the other loom for the LHS. So many hours mucking about in excel and got the plan together. This is my loom design sheet, worked for the first one so stuck with it. Just now having 2 separate sheets.
Following the same process as I did first time round. Made a template for lengths and position using rope. This is the RHS loom.
Then transfer the template to the board with zip tie sticky mounts.
Then using this as the template start running each wire going through the design sheet. I also tried to twist the loom too to make it as flexible as possible. It certainly wasn’t a proper concentric twist loom as I didn’t plan how many wires were in each layer etc but it did make the loom much more flexible so was worth doing.
ITBs and wiring looms.
James found a used set of Jenvey/PMS ITBs and couldn’t resist. We were both intrigued with what power they would add and what sound difference they would make and they look cool so no reason not to really.
Still wanted to run drive by wire to be able to play with the throttle map and who knows what will happen in the future so being able to have auto blip etc might be useful. It should also be neater than having to run a cable. So the Jenvey actuator was bought too. It is rather neat how it fits underneath.
Also ended up adding an extra sensor so there is one on the ITBs and one on the actuator. Would then be able to check that they are always matching and can always swap the ecu over to the other if one breaks.
So with the ITBs going in we decided the fuel system needed a bit of an upgrade. Wanted to change to a return line to the tank. Had already plumbed the return line through the cabin so ‘just’ needed to attach it at either end.
New fuel pump unit with a return line fitted along with some T7 push to AN fittings.
Then up front added a radium fuel pressure regulator and re used the existing fittings we had.
Kept the dry break connector post fuel rail so we can pump fuel out if needs be without having to go through the pressure regulator.
The major change the ITBs made was the wiring. There was a few options here, either cut and modify the existing loom, make extensions for each connector which had moved or start from scratch. Decided to go with the start from scratch option. Felt there was too much needing to be moved and didn’t want to do a half arsed job with the wiring.
Had a better plan for the version 2 loom too. The first loom was just one big loom with everything on it using 2 bulkhead connectors. However with some good planning I could design it to have 2 separate looms with each loom just using one bulkhead connector.
One loom would service the RHS and the other loom for the LHS. So many hours mucking about in excel and got the plan together. This is my loom design sheet, worked for the first one so stuck with it. Just now having 2 separate sheets.
Following the same process as I did first time round. Made a template for lengths and position using rope. This is the RHS loom.
Then transfer the template to the board with zip tie sticky mounts.
Then using this as the template start running each wire going through the design sheet. I also tried to twist the loom too to make it as flexible as possible. It certainly wasn’t a proper concentric twist loom as I didn’t plan how many wires were in each layer etc but it did make the loom much more flexible so was worth doing.
FrogJam Motorsport
ClioSport Trader
Post number 53 continued.
With all the wires ran started to add the heat shrink.
Along with some of the connectors and the collecting cars podcast in the back ground.
Then this is one of the looms completed (minus a wheel speed sensor connector, ran out of crimps for those).
This is both of the looms completed. Think they took me about 4 days to do, so probably best part of 15 hours each.
Was really pleased with how the looms turned out, look miles better than the first version. Much more out the way and really don’t notice the loom in the engine bay. For example running the injector wires underneath the ITBs, makes it look neat.
Even just turning the ignition on for the first time in 8 months was a great feeling. Was getting close to turning the car over and getting it running again.
Same process was done for the internal ABS loom.
Car was pretty much ready to be turned on now.
With all the wires ran started to add the heat shrink.
Along with some of the connectors and the collecting cars podcast in the back ground.
Then this is one of the looms completed (minus a wheel speed sensor connector, ran out of crimps for those).
This is both of the looms completed. Think they took me about 4 days to do, so probably best part of 15 hours each.
Was really pleased with how the looms turned out, look miles better than the first version. Much more out the way and really don’t notice the loom in the engine bay. For example running the injector wires underneath the ITBs, makes it look neat.
Even just turning the ignition on for the first time in 8 months was a great feeling. Was getting close to turning the car over and getting it running again.
Same process was done for the internal ABS loom.
Car was pretty much ready to be turned on now.
FrogJam Motorsport
ClioSport Trader
Post Number 54.
Sorry for the delay! Been a tad busy with the car and website so the blog posts have taken a back seat but still aiming to get up to date. Hopefully some good posts to come shortly.
Battery and Mapping (June 2023)
Before heading to EFI for mapping decided to change the battery to a lithium one. The small odessey battery we had used the previous year did struggle. Quite often needed the booster to get the car going first thing. Didn’t want the battery to cause any problems during mapping either. Turned out it was the right decision after having alternator problems at a couple trackdays.
Went with a JWM Battery, although many similar brands use the exact same battery from china but were very helpful and sent it out next day so no complaints at all.
Padded the existing odessey battery mount out so that no new fixing points were needed. And then could always easily switch between the two batteries if needed.
Car was all ready for its trip to EFI.
Even got some hard tyres on the car as Chris asks for.
No real problems at EFI, car wasn’t particularly happy starting but I improved that a lot with the starter motor settings, reduced the rpm at which the starter motor cuts out and let the car fire up much easier.
Car ended up making 223hp and 165lb ft.
The only difference between this and the previous mapping session is the ITBs and dry sump. So virtually no gains in power and a drop in mid range torque. Not exactly ideal. But still worth it for the sound. Not 100% sure what was going on but assuming we found the sweet spot with the 421 catcams and the standard manifold so really the engine with ITBs needs a more aggressive cam. But all a very interesting learning experience.
Next up was the first trackday at Croft.
Sorry for the delay! Been a tad busy with the car and website so the blog posts have taken a back seat but still aiming to get up to date. Hopefully some good posts to come shortly.
Battery and Mapping (June 2023)
Before heading to EFI for mapping decided to change the battery to a lithium one. The small odessey battery we had used the previous year did struggle. Quite often needed the booster to get the car going first thing. Didn’t want the battery to cause any problems during mapping either. Turned out it was the right decision after having alternator problems at a couple trackdays.
Went with a JWM Battery, although many similar brands use the exact same battery from china but were very helpful and sent it out next day so no complaints at all.
Padded the existing odessey battery mount out so that no new fixing points were needed. And then could always easily switch between the two batteries if needed.
Car was all ready for its trip to EFI.
Even got some hard tyres on the car as Chris asks for.
No real problems at EFI, car wasn’t particularly happy starting but I improved that a lot with the starter motor settings, reduced the rpm at which the starter motor cuts out and let the car fire up much easier.
Car ended up making 223hp and 165lb ft.
The only difference between this and the previous mapping session is the ITBs and dry sump. So virtually no gains in power and a drop in mid range torque. Not exactly ideal. But still worth it for the sound. Not 100% sure what was going on but assuming we found the sweet spot with the 421 catcams and the standard manifold so really the engine with ITBs needs a more aggressive cam. But all a very interesting learning experience.
Next up was the first trackday at Croft.
FrogJam Motorsport
ClioSport Trader
Post Number 55.
Croft / Snetterton / Bedford Trackdays.
We had 3 trackdays coming up in fairly short succession with aim of getting some miles on the car. We had hoped these would go pretty smoothly but sure enough a few small annoying things occurred which reduced the amount of running we got.
First up was our local at Croft.
Spotted a bit of an oil leak which we thought was coming from the inner LHS drive shaft boot. Had spare shafts so swapped the LHS shaft out and went back out. Still leaking. After a bit more of an investigation however we noticed it was actually leaking from the gearbox 5th gear end cap. It was then obviously just being blown onto the CV boot, hence why we initally thought it was the driveshaft issue. Very stupid of me but I reused a seal even though it was new the previous year it still leaked. Pretty sure unless you keep the seal in the exact same spot theres a risk it will leak. So for the sake of £7.50, buy a new genuine seal. Second time we have done that. We should have really learnt our leason there.
The other very silly mistake I made was to not properly lock off the throttle stop bolt. Slowly wound itself out throughout the course of the day and by the end we were only getting 75% throttle. Did think the lap times seemed a bit off. Even though I had specifically put individual throttle and ITB position bars on the dash neither of us spotted that one until James went through the data later the next day. Atleast an easy fix for Snetterton.
We stopped early on in the afternoon as the gearbox leak was just getting worse.
Next up, Snetterton.
Airbnb the night before worked a treat! It’s a long drive for us from Newcastle so drove down in the afternoon to get there just in time to stick a curry in the oven! Much much better than camping like we did the previous year.
All was going well at snetterton until yet another covering of something underneath. This time is really was a driveshaft. Thought we had sorted this one long before, nothing had changed with the driveshafts either but somehow one of the edges got caught and nicked the boot. So another driveshaft change later and we were back running. After this we decided to give the shafts a bit of TLC, obviously replaced the split boot with a thermoplastic one and also re packed both sets of shafts with Redline CV2. Previously had just used the grease which came with new joints/boots. Since running the CV2 however we have had no more issues so going to stick with that combo in future.
Later on in the afternoon the red flags came out. Was waiting for James to come back into the pits but no sign of him. So gave the car a call to see what was going on (the benefit of having the stilo verbacom system. Sure enough the car had died on track, all electrics had gone and wouldn’t turn back on.
After a few minutes he was having the tow of shame up the pitlane. He did manage to get off the track prety quickly and no oil spilt so was back underway pretty quickly.
I got the laptop out and plugged the car in to see what was going on. First think was an under voltage error, this would have been why the power was killed to the car to protect the battery. Second thing I checked was the voltage log. Turned out James had been driving around for the previous 10-15 minutes without the alternator, oops! Even though there is a nice low voltage warning on the dash he was too focused on just smashing the laps in. another lesson learnt really, pay some attention to what is going on with the car. But also made the warning more obvious for the future too.
Decided to call it a day. By the time we would have changed the alternator there would have been very little time left in the day for any more running. We both had done quite a few laps by this point too so were both happy. New alternator on in time for Bedford and job done.
Bedford.
Same process as for Snetterton. Airbnb and a curry the night before. Makes you feel much better than getting up very early in the morning and doing it in the day.
Within a matter of the first few laps at Bedford the replacement alternator had gone. But we had yet another spare alternator to put on the car but there must have been something wrong with the wiring to keep causing them to stop working. So swapped the alternator over and made a change to the wiring. Wired the control wiring pin of the alternator to 12v. Hadn’t done this with the previous alternators and have never had a problem but perhaps the type we moved to to fit under the ITBs needed this to be connected. Was worth a go. Long story short after connecting this we haven’t had a problem since.
Got the car back up and running just before lunch, didn’t mange to get out on track but managed to give the car a run down the access road to Bedford and checked the logs and all seemed fine regarding the voltage level.
Got out on track after lunch, was surprised by the track actually was really quite a good layout. Unfortunately soon got blacked flagged, thought I had been well behaved too so was curious to see what I had done. Turns out it was noise. Must be the ITBs which just pushes it over the limit. Bit annoying but had to lift at 3 locations during the lap where they had the microphones.
So good track but wont be going back. However, think its perfect for people taking road cars. Lots of open run off and was pretty quiet.
Croft / Snetterton / Bedford Trackdays.
We had 3 trackdays coming up in fairly short succession with aim of getting some miles on the car. We had hoped these would go pretty smoothly but sure enough a few small annoying things occurred which reduced the amount of running we got.
First up was our local at Croft.
Spotted a bit of an oil leak which we thought was coming from the inner LHS drive shaft boot. Had spare shafts so swapped the LHS shaft out and went back out. Still leaking. After a bit more of an investigation however we noticed it was actually leaking from the gearbox 5th gear end cap. It was then obviously just being blown onto the CV boot, hence why we initally thought it was the driveshaft issue. Very stupid of me but I reused a seal even though it was new the previous year it still leaked. Pretty sure unless you keep the seal in the exact same spot theres a risk it will leak. So for the sake of £7.50, buy a new genuine seal. Second time we have done that. We should have really learnt our leason there.
The other very silly mistake I made was to not properly lock off the throttle stop bolt. Slowly wound itself out throughout the course of the day and by the end we were only getting 75% throttle. Did think the lap times seemed a bit off. Even though I had specifically put individual throttle and ITB position bars on the dash neither of us spotted that one until James went through the data later the next day. Atleast an easy fix for Snetterton.
We stopped early on in the afternoon as the gearbox leak was just getting worse.
Next up, Snetterton.
Airbnb the night before worked a treat! It’s a long drive for us from Newcastle so drove down in the afternoon to get there just in time to stick a curry in the oven! Much much better than camping like we did the previous year.
All was going well at snetterton until yet another covering of something underneath. This time is really was a driveshaft. Thought we had sorted this one long before, nothing had changed with the driveshafts either but somehow one of the edges got caught and nicked the boot. So another driveshaft change later and we were back running. After this we decided to give the shafts a bit of TLC, obviously replaced the split boot with a thermoplastic one and also re packed both sets of shafts with Redline CV2. Previously had just used the grease which came with new joints/boots. Since running the CV2 however we have had no more issues so going to stick with that combo in future.
Later on in the afternoon the red flags came out. Was waiting for James to come back into the pits but no sign of him. So gave the car a call to see what was going on (the benefit of having the stilo verbacom system. Sure enough the car had died on track, all electrics had gone and wouldn’t turn back on.
After a few minutes he was having the tow of shame up the pitlane. He did manage to get off the track prety quickly and no oil spilt so was back underway pretty quickly.
I got the laptop out and plugged the car in to see what was going on. First think was an under voltage error, this would have been why the power was killed to the car to protect the battery. Second thing I checked was the voltage log. Turned out James had been driving around for the previous 10-15 minutes without the alternator, oops! Even though there is a nice low voltage warning on the dash he was too focused on just smashing the laps in. another lesson learnt really, pay some attention to what is going on with the car. But also made the warning more obvious for the future too.
Decided to call it a day. By the time we would have changed the alternator there would have been very little time left in the day for any more running. We both had done quite a few laps by this point too so were both happy. New alternator on in time for Bedford and job done.
Bedford.
Same process as for Snetterton. Airbnb and a curry the night before. Makes you feel much better than getting up very early in the morning and doing it in the day.
Within a matter of the first few laps at Bedford the replacement alternator had gone. But we had yet another spare alternator to put on the car but there must have been something wrong with the wiring to keep causing them to stop working. So swapped the alternator over and made a change to the wiring. Wired the control wiring pin of the alternator to 12v. Hadn’t done this with the previous alternators and have never had a problem but perhaps the type we moved to to fit under the ITBs needed this to be connected. Was worth a go. Long story short after connecting this we haven’t had a problem since.
Got the car back up and running just before lunch, didn’t mange to get out on track but managed to give the car a run down the access road to Bedford and checked the logs and all seemed fine regarding the voltage level.
Got out on track after lunch, was surprised by the track actually was really quite a good layout. Unfortunately soon got blacked flagged, thought I had been well behaved too so was curious to see what I had done. Turns out it was noise. Must be the ITBs which just pushes it over the limit. Bit annoying but had to lift at 3 locations during the lap where they had the microphones.
So good track but wont be going back. However, think its perfect for people taking road cars. Lots of open run off and was pretty quiet.
FrogJam Motorsport
ClioSport Trader
Post Number 56
Radiator duct
Wanted to improve the cooling further. After looking at the radiator after 3 trackdays of running it was clear that only the lower half was actually seeing significant airflow.
As shown in a previous post, I had already made a duct mould/pattern so now is time to actually make the duct.
The proper way of doing this would have been to make a mould from the duct pattern and then could have made a one piece part. However to save time and money I decided just to create to half parts directly from the pattern. Its meant to be a functional part so not bothered how it looks, so imperfections aren’t going to matter. And suppose best to have the smooth side on the inside of the part.
Not going to go through the process in detail as its just exactly how easy composite do it and they have plenty of videos on how to do it.
Used a simple wet layup consisting of 2 layers of carbon fibre, with UD tape round the edges and then vacuum bagged the part.
Was delighted how the first half turned out! I know its stating the obvious but really is amazing how light carbon fibre is.
The downside of doing it in two halves was I had to repeat the process again for the bottom half. However, in hindsight it was the better way of doing it, especially for my first attempt at doing composites. To work the fabric into the geometry without completely distorting the fibres was fairly time consuming. Can see the benefit of doing the infusion method so you can take your time with the layup with just the dry fibres and vacuum bagging.
This is how the part turned out once bonded together and trimmed.
Next up was Oulton Park.
Radiator duct
Wanted to improve the cooling further. After looking at the radiator after 3 trackdays of running it was clear that only the lower half was actually seeing significant airflow.
As shown in a previous post, I had already made a duct mould/pattern so now is time to actually make the duct.
The proper way of doing this would have been to make a mould from the duct pattern and then could have made a one piece part. However to save time and money I decided just to create to half parts directly from the pattern. Its meant to be a functional part so not bothered how it looks, so imperfections aren’t going to matter. And suppose best to have the smooth side on the inside of the part.
Not going to go through the process in detail as its just exactly how easy composite do it and they have plenty of videos on how to do it.
Used a simple wet layup consisting of 2 layers of carbon fibre, with UD tape round the edges and then vacuum bagged the part.
Was delighted how the first half turned out! I know its stating the obvious but really is amazing how light carbon fibre is.
The downside of doing it in two halves was I had to repeat the process again for the bottom half. However, in hindsight it was the better way of doing it, especially for my first attempt at doing composites. To work the fabric into the geometry without completely distorting the fibres was fairly time consuming. Can see the benefit of doing the infusion method so you can take your time with the layup with just the dry fibres and vacuum bagging.
This is how the part turned out once bonded together and trimmed.
Next up was Oulton Park.
FrogJam Motorsport
ClioSport Trader
Post Number 57
Oulton Park Trackday
Oulton Park, first time we have been here in the clio. We came down a couple years back to do our ARDs test here in one of the circuit’s cars. So knew it was decent but didn’t know how good it would be in the Clio.
Did the usual again and drove down the night before, Airbnb and the customary curry the night before still hit the spot.
Had the odd rain shower during the day but soon dried and got a good few sessions each in. Was brilliant to get out in the car, nothing going wrong and just getting more confident in the car and learning the track.
Even managed to try a set of AR1 tyres (just on the front) instead of the R888R. The R888R had been used for a few laps at Bedford so were not brand new but the AR1s were significantly quicker. Below are the onboards from the fastest laps of the day on both AR1s and R888Rs.
Had to nip out after lunch and go and fill a couple of fuel cans up as we did so much running. Always a sign of a good day.
The duct made a huge difference to coolant temps. Ran with and without to be able to compare the difference. It brought coolant temps down by 10-15 degrees when running. Struggled to get it up to temperature in fact. Had to sit in the pits with it idling to warm coolant and oil temps up so we could go out and be straight up to speed. If you coasted round the temps would drop quickly.
Thinking back we just needed to tape the radiator intake up a little to reduce the cooling, it wasn’t a particularly hot day but nor was it cold so nice to know there is some margin in the cooling system for those hot days.
Oulton Park Trackday
Oulton Park, first time we have been here in the clio. We came down a couple years back to do our ARDs test here in one of the circuit’s cars. So knew it was decent but didn’t know how good it would be in the Clio.
Did the usual again and drove down the night before, Airbnb and the customary curry the night before still hit the spot.
Had the odd rain shower during the day but soon dried and got a good few sessions each in. Was brilliant to get out in the car, nothing going wrong and just getting more confident in the car and learning the track.
Even managed to try a set of AR1 tyres (just on the front) instead of the R888R. The R888R had been used for a few laps at Bedford so were not brand new but the AR1s were significantly quicker. Below are the onboards from the fastest laps of the day on both AR1s and R888Rs.
Had to nip out after lunch and go and fill a couple of fuel cans up as we did so much running. Always a sign of a good day.
The duct made a huge difference to coolant temps. Ran with and without to be able to compare the difference. It brought coolant temps down by 10-15 degrees when running. Struggled to get it up to temperature in fact. Had to sit in the pits with it idling to warm coolant and oil temps up so we could go out and be straight up to speed. If you coasted round the temps would drop quickly.
Thinking back we just needed to tape the radiator intake up a little to reduce the cooling, it wasn’t a particularly hot day but nor was it cold so nice to know there is some margin in the cooling system for those hot days.
FrogJam Motorsport
ClioSport Trader
Post Number 58
EPAS Cooling Duct / Snetterton
The Mk2 EPAS system kept over heating after 10-15 minutes of driving in the car and took a while to cool inbetween runs. So for the final trackday of the year made a fan/shroud for the motor to see if we could keep it cool, if not we would be looking at fitting a Mk3 EPAS column over the winter.
Same method as the radiator duct however started off with a 3D printed mould so was much quicker to make. A layer of biaxial fabric and job done. Used an oil filter heat shrink of all things for the centre which fits the Mk2 EPAS motor perfectly.
Snetterton is certainly up there with one of our favourite tracks. I (Fred) have struggled with putting a lap together here before with James usually being 2-3 seconds a lap faster. So was determined to up my game and get on the pace.
Again the car ran perfectly all day. Brake pads were pretty much gone by lunch time so fitted a new set, tried EBC RPX pads this time. Had been running Ferodo DS1.11 or Unos previously. Initial impressions were that they felt pretty good and similar but wear rate will soon tell if they are worth it or not.
Not sure what happened but James had been out setting a PB which I assumed I was going to be a way off as per usual. But put my big boy pants on and went for it. 3rd lap out in the session and I had smashed it. Was absolutely buzzing. Decided to do the dick move and come in a lap later, James thinking something had gone wrong when I stepped out the car after only being out for 5 laps or so. I said time for you to beat that lap time!
We were both proper chuffed. Car was bang on the pace of where we wanted to be and I had finally managed a half decent lap of snetterton.
So out James went seeing on the live data where I had gone faster and he was right on the pace too.
So a great final trackday of the year! However, what reared its ugly head? The dreaded gearbox whine and crunch! FFS! Decision needed to be made over the winter to what to do with the box.
EPAS Cooling Duct / Snetterton
The Mk2 EPAS system kept over heating after 10-15 minutes of driving in the car and took a while to cool inbetween runs. So for the final trackday of the year made a fan/shroud for the motor to see if we could keep it cool, if not we would be looking at fitting a Mk3 EPAS column over the winter.
Same method as the radiator duct however started off with a 3D printed mould so was much quicker to make. A layer of biaxial fabric and job done. Used an oil filter heat shrink of all things for the centre which fits the Mk2 EPAS motor perfectly.
Snetterton is certainly up there with one of our favourite tracks. I (Fred) have struggled with putting a lap together here before with James usually being 2-3 seconds a lap faster. So was determined to up my game and get on the pace.
Again the car ran perfectly all day. Brake pads were pretty much gone by lunch time so fitted a new set, tried EBC RPX pads this time. Had been running Ferodo DS1.11 or Unos previously. Initial impressions were that they felt pretty good and similar but wear rate will soon tell if they are worth it or not.
Not sure what happened but James had been out setting a PB which I assumed I was going to be a way off as per usual. But put my big boy pants on and went for it. 3rd lap out in the session and I had smashed it. Was absolutely buzzing. Decided to do the dick move and come in a lap later, James thinking something had gone wrong when I stepped out the car after only being out for 5 laps or so. I said time for you to beat that lap time!
We were both proper chuffed. Car was bang on the pace of where we wanted to be and I had finally managed a half decent lap of snetterton.
So out James went seeing on the live data where I had gone faster and he was right on the pace too.
So a great final trackday of the year! However, what reared its ugly head? The dreaded gearbox whine and crunch! FFS! Decision needed to be made over the winter to what to do with the box.
FrogJam Motorsport
ClioSport Trader
Post Number 59
2023/2024 Winter Upgrades (again)
Gearbox
So the big question was what to do with the gearbox. Was sick of having issues with the JC5 and gripper. So options were to go sequential, JC5 with a Quaife diff instead of gripper or K swap.
After much deliberating the trigger was pulled on a 3MO LC776 EVO sequential.
Had spoken with a fair few people about the different options, those being 3MO, Sadev and Beckert. The Beckert was soon disregarded due to lack of information and a couple people had said they didn’t have a good reputation for reliability. Sadev are more expensive and spare part availability seems a pain. Therefore 3MO was the chosen one.
The LC776 has a lower power/torque rating than the others but as the plan is to run in a limited power to weight race series then this was going to be plenty. The benefit of this is that the box and spare parts are significantly cheaper compared to the next size up gearbox. A gear pair for example is circa 1/3 of the price of a gear pair for the other boxes from Sadev and 3MO.
Was ordered through Race & Rally in Ireland who are the UK distributor for 3MO. They were very helpful and are always happy to help (and not just when you initially purchase the box).
The 6 speed option also give for some pretty close ratios which should be fun. Orange line was our previous gear box ratio with the 4.54 gripper final drive and the blue line is the LC776.
As you can imagine there is a fair amount of work to fit the gearbox. It isn’t a complete kit which has everything ready to go. Our engine bay setup makes it a little more complicated due to the additional components too.
So the list of jobs that I will cover in the next few posts are:
Engine Rebuild
As well as the gearbox swap we decided to do an engine rebuild at the same time. A few reasons for this.
Clio Mk3 Steering Column
The last change we had planned for the winter was to change the Mk2 EPAS for the Mk3 EPAS. The Mk2 EPAS is simply not up to the job, it kept over heating even with the cooler fitted. So saw ruski changed his column and said it was miles better so seems a no brainer so best we try it for ourselves.
So lots of good posts to follow!
2023/2024 Winter Upgrades (again)
Gearbox
So the big question was what to do with the gearbox. Was sick of having issues with the JC5 and gripper. So options were to go sequential, JC5 with a Quaife diff instead of gripper or K swap.
After much deliberating the trigger was pulled on a 3MO LC776 EVO sequential.
Had spoken with a fair few people about the different options, those being 3MO, Sadev and Beckert. The Beckert was soon disregarded due to lack of information and a couple people had said they didn’t have a good reputation for reliability. Sadev are more expensive and spare part availability seems a pain. Therefore 3MO was the chosen one.
The LC776 has a lower power/torque rating than the others but as the plan is to run in a limited power to weight race series then this was going to be plenty. The benefit of this is that the box and spare parts are significantly cheaper compared to the next size up gearbox. A gear pair for example is circa 1/3 of the price of a gear pair for the other boxes from Sadev and 3MO.
Was ordered through Race & Rally in Ireland who are the UK distributor for 3MO. They were very helpful and are always happy to help (and not just when you initially purchase the box).
The 6 speed option also give for some pretty close ratios which should be fun. Orange line was our previous gear box ratio with the 4.54 gripper final drive and the blue line is the LC776.
As you can imagine there is a fair amount of work to fit the gearbox. It isn’t a complete kit which has everything ready to go. Our engine bay setup makes it a little more complicated due to the additional components too.
So the list of jobs that I will cover in the next few posts are:
- Engine + gearbox mounts
- Gear shifter
- ECU upgrade for closed loop gear control
- Driveshaft and CV joints
- Water pump + oil cooler move
- Dry sump tank move
- Gearbox oil cooler pump relocation
Engine Rebuild
As well as the gearbox swap we decided to do an engine rebuild at the same time. A few reasons for this.
- Wanted to have a better cam to match the ITBs better than the 421s after losing midrange from swapping to the ITBs from the standard manifold. The idea being to produce an engine with high torque and then cap the max power for the power to weight ratio class.
- Engine had been ran for 2 years so was intrigued to see bearing wear and to inspect bearings, rings etc it all needed to be opened up so may as well do a full rebuild at the same time.
- Wanted to try some different components we had sourced for the FrogJam Motorsport website so we had first hand experience with them.
- JE Pistons – 12.8 pistons but due to decking and head skimming this was going to be higher. Future post will show measuring this.
- K1 forged rods
- 433 Catcams (non VVT)
- Catcams pulleys
- VVT Solenoid delete/plug
- Supertech valves to be re used
- Catcam valve springs
- New tappets and followers
- ACL main bearings with R3 centre tangs
- ACL rod bearings
- Remove oil squirters
- Heavier duty Clio Mk3 crank shaft
- Blast valve cover to remove paint (will go into more detail but don’t paint your valve cover)
Clio Mk3 Steering Column
The last change we had planned for the winter was to change the Mk2 EPAS for the Mk3 EPAS. The Mk2 EPAS is simply not up to the job, it kept over heating even with the cooler fitted. So saw ruski changed his column and said it was miles better so seems a no brainer so best we try it for ourselves.
So lots of good posts to follow!
FrogJam Motorsport
ClioSport Trader
Post Number 60
3MO LC776 Gearbox Fitting
Part 1 – Gearbox mounts
First job was to sort the new mounts out. Wanted to get these done as soon as possible so we could get the measurements for the driveshafts finalised and the driveshafts made.
The engine block had already come back from the machine shop so we decided to halt the engine build in order to use it for mock up and once the shafts were being made James could carry on with the engine build. This was the first fitting on the gearbox onto the engine.
The gearbox uses an adaptor plate to mount to the F4R block. The adaptor plate has dowels on both engine and gearbox side to align them. All worked pretty nicely, however, once mounted it seemed to stick out the front more than the standard gearbox so was slightly concerned about clearance to the dry sump oil pump and oil cooler. But that was one for later to sort.
The RHS engine mount was just the same mount as before so this could be used as the datum for the engine and gearbox position. So put the engine and gearbox into the car with the RHS mount and just the gearbox end on a jack.
Gearbox fits in really nicely, just gets a little close to the steering rack, but as it was going to be mounted with pretty stiff poly bushes could get away with running it pretty close.
Got the engine and gearbox into the right postion and made sure it was all level could make a start on the LHS gearbox mount.
This is one of the many videos I sent to James as part of the ongoing back and forth discussion about what is the best way to go. Always good to chat things over to make sure you haven’t forgotten anything or if there’s a simple solution which you have overlooked.
So got a route to go down for the gearbox mount. So next step was to scan the gearbox and body so generate some CAD concepts. I know this seems over the top but I enjoy this side of things (probably already have noticed this) but gives us the option to copy the mounts easily if needed for the future.
3MO LC776 Gearbox Fitting
Part 1 – Gearbox mounts
First job was to sort the new mounts out. Wanted to get these done as soon as possible so we could get the measurements for the driveshafts finalised and the driveshafts made.
The engine block had already come back from the machine shop so we decided to halt the engine build in order to use it for mock up and once the shafts were being made James could carry on with the engine build. This was the first fitting on the gearbox onto the engine.
The gearbox uses an adaptor plate to mount to the F4R block. The adaptor plate has dowels on both engine and gearbox side to align them. All worked pretty nicely, however, once mounted it seemed to stick out the front more than the standard gearbox so was slightly concerned about clearance to the dry sump oil pump and oil cooler. But that was one for later to sort.
The RHS engine mount was just the same mount as before so this could be used as the datum for the engine and gearbox position. So put the engine and gearbox into the car with the RHS mount and just the gearbox end on a jack.
Gearbox fits in really nicely, just gets a little close to the steering rack, but as it was going to be mounted with pretty stiff poly bushes could get away with running it pretty close.
Got the engine and gearbox into the right postion and made sure it was all level could make a start on the LHS gearbox mount.
This is one of the many videos I sent to James as part of the ongoing back and forth discussion about what is the best way to go. Always good to chat things over to make sure you haven’t forgotten anything or if there’s a simple solution which you have overlooked.
So got a route to go down for the gearbox mount. So next step was to scan the gearbox and body so generate some CAD concepts. I know this seems over the top but I enjoy this side of things (probably already have noticed this) but gives us the option to copy the mounts easily if needed for the future.
FrogJam Motorsport
ClioSport Trader
Post Number 60 continued
CAD concept done and now to make the mount. No laser cutter but makes it nice and easy by printing the outline out, cutting out in paper and then tracing the outline to the sheet metal.
Next was the same process for the lower anti rotation gearbox mount. Scan, CAD, trace to sheet metal and weld up.
CAD concept done and now to make the mount. No laser cutter but makes it nice and easy by printing the outline out, cutting out in paper and then tracing the outline to the sheet metal.
Next was the same process for the lower anti rotation gearbox mount. Scan, CAD, trace to sheet metal and weld up.
