1.2 to 2.0 16v

[cliohybrid]

hi,
iam going to convert my 1.2 mark1 phase 1 clio to a 16v 2 litter.i also want to use the wider track williams suspension wishbones etc on the front and back.
on the back its ok but on the front end is the wishbones wider or is it the sub frame which is wider?
if wishbones are longer i can keep the standard subframe or do i need the wider subframe for the engine.

 

[edde]

Rear suspension arm etc is the same as the 1.8 16V (100% certain)
Different dampers i think.

Wishbones are wider parts numbers etc are below this post

You can use stock subframe the WIlliams is double skinned for strenght though so for the full effect you need it.

Springs:

You can use williams springs, 172 springs or clio 1.8 16v springs - I won't list OE part numbers for these as they are dependant on a coloured spot on the original items. Aftermarket wise you can fit any lowering springs designed for a williams or clio 1.8 16v or, alternatively, you can fit coilovers (see below). Stock springs are 125lb and from a 172 full fat.

Front Shock Absorbers:

77 00 838 095 - Williams front shock absorber (40.67 each)
77 00 838 095 - Williams front shock absorber (40.67 each)
You could obviously also fit aftermarket shocks or coilovers - however, these must be designed for a williams. SInce hubs are the same on valver and Williams only the shocks give the different track.

Wishbones:

60 01 025 842 - Williams wishbone - right hand side (48.30)
60 01 025 841 - Williams wishbone - left hand side (48.30)
Renault 19 16v wishbones will also fit.

Anti Roll Bar:

60 01 025 814 - Williams ARB (72.11)
Renault 19 16v ARB will also fit, as will some megane 1 ARB's (IIRC its the non-16v and non-coupe one you'll be after)

Anti Roll Bar Fixing (At Middle):

77 00 785 788 - ARB Bush (5.49)
77 00 785 788 - ARB Bush (5.49)
82 00 078 548 - ARB Clip (2.75)
82 00 078 548 - ARB Clip (2.75)
77 03 035 027 - Nut (0.73)
77 03 035 027 - Nut (0.73)
77 03 002 116 - Screw M8-2 (0.69)
77 03 002 116 - Screw M8-2 (0.69)
These items are not really necessary as you will be able to use the 1.8 items but IMO it's worth doing as your original bushes could be quite worn dependant on age/milage of your car.

Anti Roll Bar Fixing (At Wishbones):

77 00 784 170 - ARB Bush (5.49)
77 00 784 170 - ARB Bush (5.49)
77 00 784 169 - ARB Clip (3.61)
77 00 784 169 - ARB Clip (3.61)
77 03 002 116 - Screw M8-2 (0.69)
77 03 002 116 - Screw M8-2 (0.69)
77 03 034 017 - Nut (0.36)
77 03 034 017 - Nut (0.36)
These items are necessary to mate the ARB to the wishbones - the 1.8 setup mounts differently so you cannot use your existing components here.

Driveshafts:

77 01 367 623 - Williams driveshaft - right hand side (156.19)
77 01 367 627 - Williams driveshaft - left hand side (156.19)
Depending on if you car has ABS you may also need an ABS toothed ring for each shaft. It may be possible to salvage these from your 1.8 setup but if not then the part number is 77 00 867 344 (14.23) - you would need two of these if applicable. It is also possible to substitle the passenger side driveshaft with a R19 16v item.

Also try ringing round comapnys who make driveshafts I got mine from a motor garage for a lot less than Renault and it a new not refurb part just took a few days to get to made up. However be careful they they don't sell you the valver shafts Halfords etc order Williams ones in but they turn out to bee the same part from a Valver and won't fit.

General Notes:

If you get asked for an oval plate number (i.e when ordering driveshafts etc) you can use 'C57M' which is for a Williams. If going for alternative parts (i.e. R19 16V) then you would need the corresponding oval plate.

Also, going for all new parts will cost quite a lot so i'd try and source some of the parts secondhand.

 

[cliohybrid]

is the 1.2 8v subframe same as 1.8 16v.
my cars got the horrible energy engine in lol.
your list was great though and thanks for your help will come in handy.
cheers.

 

[Dan@SJM]

yes, same all the way through the clio range.

 

[cliohybrid]

yes, same all the way through the clio range.

so changing the engine over is gona be quite easy as engine mounts in the same place and can use the same engine mounts or different mounts but the mounting holes in same place.
is a 1.8 16v gearbox better for acceleration over williams box?
also iam looking at trying to get about 280 from a williams.possible?

 

[Dan@SJM]

lol, not N/A no.

 

[cliohybrid]

lol, not N/A no.

what that mean lol.

 

[edde]

so changing the engine over is gona be quite easy as engine mounts in the same place and can use the same engine mounts or different mounts but the mounting holes in same place.
is a 1.8 16v gearbox better for acceleration over williams box?
also iam looking at trying to get about 280 from a williams.possible?

Use the 1.8 engine mounts.
Holes for the mounts are in the same place.

1.8 box isn't as strong ratios arn't much different.

280HP? Err thats a lot turbothe easiest way but your looking at a lot of money £6k for fitted.

 

[cliohybrid]

so changing the engine over is gona be quite easy as engine mounts in the same place and can use the same engine mounts or different mounts but the mounting holes in same place.
is a 1.8 16v gearbox better for acceleration over williams box?
also iam looking at trying to get about 280 from a williams.possible?

Use the 1.8 engine mounts.
Holes for the mounts are in the same place.

1.8 box isn't as strong ratios arn't much different.

280HP? Err thats a lot turbothe easiest way but your looking at a lot of money £6k for fitted.

yeap i already planned for a turbo all fitted meself and dad as both mechanics.
list of things for williams engine.
lsd for gearbox and electronic traction control
race clutch
lightened flywheel
lightened and balanced crank shaft
forged con-rods and pistons and bolts and pins
re angled and enlarged valves
gas flowed head and plenum.
high flow manifold
turbo conversion [15psi boost?]
fse fuel reg.
stand alone fuel tank with twin upgraded fuel pumps.
omex stand olne ecu.
nipon denso spark plugs
magnicor ht leads 9mm.
uprated ignition coil packs [were from though?]
thats about it on the engine side.
suspension/brakes.
big brembo disc and caliper conversion.
full williams suspension
koni coil overs.
oz ultraleggra wheels 17 ich 225 wide.
thats probs about it,if i missed anything please say,.
alot of money and man years are gonna be put in this.
this is just gonna be a track day car.

 

[dutty_112]

should make this thread a sticky really..loads of people ask the saaaame questions

 

[edde]

lsd for gearbox and electronic traction control
race clutch
lightened flywheel
lightened and balanced crank shaft
forged con-rods and pistons and bolts and pins
re angled and enlarged valves
gas flowed head and plenum.
high flow manifold
turbo conversion [15psi boost?]
fse fuel reg.
stand alone fuel tank with twin upgraded fuel pumps.
omex stand olne ecu.
nipon denso spark plugs
magnicor ht leads 9mm.
uprated ignition coil packs [were from though?]
thats about it on the engine side.
suspension/brakes.
big brembo disc and caliper conversion.
full williams suspension
koni coil overs.
oz ultraleggra wheels 17 ich 225 wide.
thats probs about it,if i missed anything please say,.
alot of money and man years are gonna be put in this.
this is just gonna be a track day car.

You know what your on about then best of luck.
IMO no point with the LSD most are badly made anyway. I'd dump the WIlliams/1.8 box and use a newer JC5 from a 172/182 the only problem would be that you loose the speedo unplut but that can be fixed.

Or better stll make a stronger box to fit.

Race clucth well I had one and there rubush build quality was terribale it fell to pieces in a few K stock as stronger but you'll be pushing more torque so if your using stronger box either use a stonger clutch from that or spend money on a very decinet quality one.

The mitsubihsi Evo uprated fuel pumps are a chepaer option they bolt straight on into hole for the normal tank one so there soem money saved.

Ask BenR about ECu his mate sells one which from the sounds is cheaper and better than the Omex.

Coil pack the 172 one is fine loads of uprated cars use them. Leads are the same use 172 stuff.

Forget the Koni's get some Avo's. Koni's have had a tendance to leak plus there looking at a group buy at the moment on williamsclio.co.uk where they recon there down to £350 or so if they get enough orders.

Big disk conversions are rubish only for looks i had one and it was usless.

Either spend big on better calipers (Yozzasport sells Willwood 4 pot ones along with other companaies or buy the calipers and make the brackets up yourself. or go get some DS2500 pads stock disk new lines(braided might as well for the small extra cost) and some decinet fluid and remove the fog lights and use as brake cooling.

The Willaims has a different master cylinder £80 or so on discount from Renault so that an idea or just uprate the whole thing. Change the lines etc anway regardless if engine out. You should have ABS I'm sure all valvers did if so IMO dump it its usless either change for a stand along stuff or see how many teeth the rings have and use a Mk2 CLio ABS setup for three reason.
1) Its better responsivness and it can work stand alone.
2) It can tak to modern computers ODB.
3) It can be used to power a speedo as it has speedo out onputs.

I've got the wiring drawings outputs if you do decide to do with this you'll need possible to check the hubs work they should do the sensors can be resused etc I think.

Forget the 17's there all for loks 15 or best 16's IMO.

 

[cliohybrid]

lsd for gearbox and electronic traction control
race clutch
lightened flywheel
lightened and balanced crank shaft
forged con-rods and pistons and bolts and pins
re angled and enlarged valves
gas flowed head and plenum.
high flow manifold
turbo conversion [15psi boost?]
fse fuel reg.
stand alone fuel tank with twin upgraded fuel pumps.
omex stand olne ecu.
nipon denso spark plugs
magnicor ht leads 9mm.
uprated ignition coil packs [were from though?]
thats about it on the engine side.
suspension/brakes.
big brembo disc and caliper conversion.
full williams suspension
koni coil overs.
oz ultraleggra wheels 17 ich 225 wide.
thats probs about it,if i missed anything please say,.
alot of money and man years are gonna be put in this.
this is just gonna be a track day car.

You know what your on about then best of luck.
IMO no point with the LSD most are badly made anyway. I'd dump the WIlliams/1.8 box and use a newer JC5 from a 172/182 the only problem would be that you loose the speedo unplut but that can be fixed.

Or better stll make a stronger box to fit.

Race clucth well I had one and there rubush build quality was terribale it fell to pieces in a few K stock as stronger but you'll be pushing more torque so if your using stronger box either use a stonger clutch from that or spend money on a very decinet quality one.

The mitsubihsi Evo uprated fuel pumps are a chepaer option they bolt straight on into hole for the normal tank one so there soem money saved.

Ask BenR about ECu his mate sells one which from the sounds is cheaper and better than the Omex.

Coil pack the 172 one is fine loads of uprated cars use them. Leads are the same use 172 stuff.

Forget the Koni's get some Avo's. Koni's have had a tendance to leak plus there looking at a group buy at the moment on williamsclio.co.uk where they recon there down to £350 or so if they get enough orders.

Big disk conversions are rubish only for looks i had one and it was usless.

Either spend big on better calipers (Yozzasport sells Willwood 4 pot ones along with other companaies or buy the calipers and make the brackets up yourself. or go get some DS2500 pads stock disk new lines(braided might as well for the small extra cost) and some decinet fluid and remove the fog lights and use as brake cooling.

The Willaims has a different master cylinder £80 or so on discount from Renault so that an idea or just uprate the whole thing. Change the lines etc anway regardless if engine out. You should have ABS I'm sure all valvers did if so IMO dump it its usless either change for a stand along stuff or see how many teeth the rings have and use a Mk2 CLio ABS setup for three reason.
1) Its better responsivness and it can work stand alone.
2) It can tak to modern computers ODB.
3) It can be used to power a speedo as it has speedo out onputs.

I've got the wiring drawings outputs if you do decide to do with this you'll need possible to check the hubs work they should do the sensors can be resused etc I think.

Forget the 17's there all for loks 15 or best 16's IMO.

that is great.
this is me first project/conversion and i just wanna make sure what iam going to do is write.
but you been a great help.
if i need anymore help il just pm you.
cheers again

 

[edde]

that is great.
this is me first project/conversion and i just wanna make sure what iam going to do is write.
but you been a great help.
if i need anymore help il just pm you.
cheers again

No problem.
Why not do a twin engined 2.0 transplant it would be cheaper (300hp stock) and IMO way more interesting possibly easier as well. Its been done before so it does work.

Ok twin engined on the road arn't legal I don't think but its more reliable. and with a few mods 340hp should be easy.

 

[cliohybrid]

that is great.
this is me first project/conversion and i just wanna make sure what iam going to do is write.
but you been a great help.
if i need anymore help il just pm you.
cheers again

No problem.
Why not do a twin engined 2.0 transplant it would be cheaper (300hp stock) and IMO way more interesting possibly easier as well. Its been done before so it does work.

Ok twin engined on the road arn't legal I don't think but its more reliable. and with a few mods 340hp should be easy.

you shouldnt encourage me lol.
i think that will be a bit too heavey for me lol.
this isnt gonna be for the road its a track day only car hehe.
iam going to pick up some 16v wings tomoz,already got the bonnet heheh.
remember iam only starting off with a mark1 phase 1 1.2 8v so everything has to be upgraded.
iam gonna do some of the mods that you said and some that i said.do a bit more research on using other model parts.
once its all complete id prob be happy with whatever its gonna push bhp wise.i reckon with these mods 250 shouldnt be hard.but i want the torque as well.
well see how it goes lol.

 

[edde]

you shouldnt encourage me lol.
i think that will be a bit too heavey for me lol.
this isnt gonna be for the road its a track day only car hehe.
iam going to pick up some 16v wings tomoz,already got the bonnet heheh.
remember iam only starting off with a mark1 phase 1 1.2 8v so everything has to be upgraded.
iam gonna do some of the mods that you said and some that i said.do a bit more research on using other model parts.
once its all complete id prob be happy with whatever its gonna push bhp wise.i reckon with these mods 250 shouldnt be hard.but i want the torque as well.
well see how it goes lol.

It would be easier than turbo I'd think plus more fun.

Forget turboing if its for track day IMO though its not going to be reliable enough rebuild the 2.0 bottom end then depends what you want cash wise if you want cams throttle bodies etc. Regardless just strip it like mad every last gram and get a proper weld in cage. Thats would be quicker spend the money on stickly tyres and ligtening it more and more and learing to drive on track.

 

[cliohybrid]

you shouldnt encourage me lol.
i think that will be a bit too heavey for me lol.
this isnt gonna be for the road its a track day only car hehe.
iam going to pick up some 16v wings tomoz,already got the bonnet heheh.
remember iam only starting off with a mark1 phase 1 1.2 8v so everything has to be upgraded.
iam gonna do some of the mods that you said and some that i said.do a bit more research on using other model parts.
once its all complete id prob be happy with whatever its gonna push bhp wise.i reckon with these mods 250 shouldnt be hard.but i want the torque as well.
well see how it goes lol.

It would be easier than turbo I'd think plus more fun.

Forget turboing if its for track day IMO though its not going to be reliable enough rebuild the 2.0 bottom end then depends what you want cash wise if you want cams throttle bodies etc. Regardless just strip it like mad every last gram and get a proper weld in cage. Thats would be quicker spend the money on stickly tyres and ligtening it more and more and learing to drive on track.

you havent seen my car lol.
it is stripped out entirely.
it hasnt even got a dash you can see wiring loom.all i got is one seat mine,steering wheel and the steering wheel and gauges.
i have no carpets no seats no door cards no nothing.
everything has come off even the spare wheel cradle under the car.
i done that a while back and made a MASSIVE improvemnt.
sounds nice inside too.
its got a stock 1.2 8v except exhaust and it keeps up with 1.6 16v all ready.
i can just keep hold of me m8s vauxhall astra 2 0l 8v which has superchips induction kit and exhaust,start to lose him at 80mph,off the line pis all over him,he just wheelspins.
upto 50 hes behind me,my car tops out at 110mph hes goes to 125mph.

 

[Dan@SJM]

tbh, i'd just stick a standard willy lump in to start. that'll be more than enough power for you mate. coming from a 1.2.