ClioSport.net

Register a free account today to become a member!
Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

172 and 182 engine difference



  Clio 172 cup
Hello im new to the site and have just brought an 03 172 cup:D , and was just wondering what makes the 182 have 10bhp more. Is it just a remap?

Cheers
Rich
 
  RenaultSport clio 172 mk2
Is anyone going to start making a replacement 4-2-1 for 172's. Rather than having to get a oem one as the price for those is going up all the time..?
 
  RenaultSport clio 172 mk2
The ktec one is just an off the shelf renault 1. And if you go to your local dealer you can buy the cheaper than them.( well the price i got was) Just thought there was a market for them. And you could no doubt improve it a bit.
 
  Lionel Richie
we can get a 4-2-1 alternative manifold, but its out of the "sensible" price bracket, plus i have doubts on the quality (not our product)

the bog standard renault 182 one can be had for £200 second hand (its the labour that bumps the price up)
 
  RenaultSport clio 172 mk2
You got any for £200.....? And a do you a link pipe. Or do i buy one of your super systems to go with..?
 
We have 2 designs already for stock type and higher rpm engines.

They are 2 peice and will mean that the subframe does not have to be dropped, significantly reducing labour costs. Which pretty much makes up for the additional cost of the significantly better designed 4-2-1 manifold from us.

However there has not been enough interest to push the items into batch production.
 
BenR said:
We have 2 designs already for stock type and higher rpm engines.

They are 2 peice and will mean that the subframe does not have to be dropped, significantly reducing labour costs. Which pretty much makes up for the additional cost of the significantly better designed 4-2-1 manifold from us.

However there has not been enough interest to push the items into batch production.
How much interest do you need and what sort of price are we talking about I'd take it it would fit all RS's eith a supitable cat or cat pipe?
 
we'd need orders in the region of 10 and price would be circa £600-680 depending on what the group concensus was regarding material and the amount of detail put into it. There is good, and then there is AWT anally good.......price reflects quality obviously.
 
BenR said:
we'd need orders in the region of 10 and price would be circa £600-680 depending on what the group concensus was regarding material and the amount of detail put into it. There is good, and then there is AWT anally good.......price reflects quality obviously.
Would this be a manifold which would work for road engine at low rpm more or more for higher rpm work ? What about the use of cams etc or is this a one solution fits most application quite well but not optimised?
 
chris_p said:
what will the performance be like with the extra 10bhp? Dont say like the 182 lol, as it's heavier!
182 is lighter. Its got longer gearing which counts against it.
10hp is nothing realy.
 
edde said:
Would this be a manifold which would work for road engine at low rpm more or more for higher rpm work ? What about the use of cams etc or is this a one solution fits most application quite well but not optimised?

The manifold will be configured for the most appropriate and common applications, namely stock rpm region use. Anybody who is wishing for a manifold configured for higher rpm band use will be far a few between therefore cost isnt such an issue for someone seeking each percetage gain.

The only way you will get a 100% optimised manifold is if you design it specifically to obtain a signal peak at the rpm range you will be using most, since all manifolds have peak's and troughs in the signal range and affect the whole rpm powerband.
 
W

WrongJohn

Excuse me saying so but....

Surely once a design is in place, it shouldnt cost this much to produce manifolds.

I used to run Civics and although I agree there are far more aftermarket parts for them surely the difference in price for a Clio 4 pot shouldnt run to £500 - assuming a workable design is known.

Civic Manifolds are about £200 for 4-1 and £300 for 4-2-1 unbranded but with proven gains. Stick another £100.00 on those prices for a brand like Skunk2 or similar.

Thats still a good £350 - £400 less than the prices being quoted here for Clio manifolds.

What makes them so pricey?

John
 
  throttle bodied mk2 172
WrongJohn said:
Excuse me saying so but....

Surely once a design is in place, it shouldnt cost this much to produce manifolds.

I used to run Civics and although I agree there are far more aftermarket parts for them surely the difference in price for a Clio 4 pot shouldnt run to £500 - assuming a workable design is known.

Civic Manifolds are about £200 for 4-1 and £300 for 4-2-1 unbranded but with proven gains. Stick another £100.00 on those prices for a brand like Skunk2 or similar.

Thats still a good £350 - £400 less than the prices being quoted here for Clio manifolds.

What makes them so pricey?

John
no competition like honda parts,the most tuning parts for a car in the world is honda civic.
 
W

WrongJohn

Surely creating a healthy market is up to... ummm. Clio owners clubs :)

I reckon someone in the UK will custom build one to spec for £500 ish - like they would a Civic one. Get 10 orders and it will drop a bit.

People are offering Manifolds built in that way now, just like any old clown can make you a custom stainless steel exhaust now.... Cant vouch for quality but to be fair the custom manis I saw on Civics where all very high standard because they were largely made by small time guys who actually cared for their products and their pride.

John.
 
WrongJohn said:
Excuse me saying so but....

Surely once a design is in place, it shouldnt cost this much to produce manifolds.

I used to run Civics and although I agree there are far more aftermarket parts for them surely the difference in price for a Clio 4 pot shouldnt run to £500 - assuming a workable design is known.

Civic Manifolds are about £200 for 4-1 and £300 for 4-2-1 unbranded but with proven gains. Stick another £100.00 on those prices for a brand like Skunk2 or similar.

Thats still a good £350 - £400 less than the prices being quoted here for Clio manifolds.

What makes them so pricey?

John

The designs your quoting such as DC sports, skunk 2, mugen, spoon yadda yadda yadda, are not small exhaust operations, but large companies that own and run whole exhuast manufacturing factories for every japanese sports and non sports model under the sun. Natural economies of scale means a world wide operation where they build manifolds in batch by the thousands to meet world demand, is going to be far cheaper than a single guy in enland making 10.

Saying that, if you go for a PROPER honda manifold from SMSP, RMF, DTR, Hytec or Burns then you'll be getting a hand fabricated to order and engine specification applicable (rather than an off the shelf rubbish DC/Skunk2) and it'll take a good 2 months to get to you and cost the same £600-800 depending on design.

And quite simply, the designs you mentioned which cost £200-£400 arent of the most impressive design and execution.

that is why it costs more.

p.s i do alot of honda work so know the ins and outs of the industry ;)
 
  VaVa
portal172 said:
Source?

What would be the difference in weight? The spare wheel?

Sources are Evo and Renault handbook.

Difference most likely lack of spare wheel and lack of wheel well. A 172 Alloy and tyre weighs in the region of 15kg!!
 
  Ph1
Havent seen a 182 manifold for sale on ebay for months!!

Thank god i got mine when i did

The cost and fitting it is one thing, finding one is even harder !!
 
  Z4
The phase 1 172 is only 1035kg :), now we agree on that...would there be much/ if any performance gain with the new mainfold?
 
W

WrongJohn

BenR said:
The designs your quoting such as DC sports, skunk 2, mugen, spoon yadda yadda yadda, are not small exhaust operations, but large companies that own and run whole exhuast manufacturing factories for every japanese sports and non sports model under the sun. Natural economies of scale means a world wide operation where they build manifolds in batch by the thousands to meet world demand, is going to be far cheaper than a single guy in enland making 10.

Saying that, if you go for a PROPER honda manifold from SMSP, RMF, DTR, Hytec or Burns then you'll be getting a hand fabricated to order and engine specification applicable (rather than an off the shelf rubbish DC/Skunk2) and it'll take a good 2 months to get to you and cost the same £600-800 depending on design.

And quite simply, the designs you mentioned which cost £200-£400 arent of the most impressive design and execution.

that is why it costs more.

p.s i do alot of honda work so know the ins and outs of the industry ;)

Interesting that you assume I'm just another donut that doesn't understand simple economics.

I don't disagree about the fact that larger operations can produce things cheaper - this is a simple fact and can't be denied. My argument is that Clio manifolds COULD be cheaper. The design is in place so there is no R&D cost - all thats needed is the raw material, the tools required for machining and some skilled labour.

Granted - someone would have to be willing to say 'Yep I will have a crack and make one for £500' I reckon said person would turn a reasonable profit from that no doubt - then the rest of us can put a deposit down and get 10 for £450 each potentially.

We all know what a manifold is made of, we know the quality of the bends and welds is what counts - if someone can machine one of the standard in the 182 then I would be game, branded or not.

I think its a waste of time for 10bhp anyway. I doubt you would see 10 without remap, better breathing etc anyway but I would love to spend £500 and be wrong!

I reckon forced induction is the only way to see power from these cars - not that its the way forward for everyone though.

Regards
John.
 
W

WrongJohn

chris_p said:
WrongJohn said:
I reckon forced induction is the only way to see power from these cars - not that its the way forward for everyone though.

How do you get forced induction?

Turbo or supercharger mate!

John
 
WrongJohn said:
Interesting that you assume I'm just another donut that doesn't understand simple economics.

I don't disagree about the fact that larger operations can produce things cheaper - this is a simple fact and can't be denied. My argument is that Clio manifolds COULD be cheaper. The design is in place so there is no R&D cost - all thats needed is the raw material, the tools required for machining and some skilled labour.

Granted - someone would have to be willing to say 'Yep I will have a crack and make one for £500' I reckon said person would turn a reasonable profit from that no doubt - then the rest of us can put a deposit down and get 10 for £450 each potentially.

We all know what a manifold is made of, we know the quality of the bends and welds is what counts - if someone can machine one of the standard in the 182 then I would be game, branded or not.

I think its a waste of time for 10bhp anyway. I doubt you would see 10 without remap, better breathing etc anyway but I would love to spend £500 and be wrong!

I reckon forced induction is the only way to see power from these cars - not that its the way forward for everyone though.

Regards
John.

I'm not doubting you understand basic economics, i'm doubting just how much you understand in terms of the way I and my company deals with its own design products. I do not do gash, half arsed, bodged or even 'good' jobs. I only use the best, and the best costs. Sure i could flog out a manifold that used formed or pressed collectors, easy going heavy mig welds and none of the fancy implementations i have in the manifold design....belt one out for £400. But i dont want to, other people can do that, i'm not here to make large sums of money by pushing cheaper products, I like making the best because its what i'm interested in.

For example, people will almost always use 305SS where i would only use 321SS, investment cast flanges, true merge collectors, transitions and anti reversal dual bore primaries, V band clamps not slip fit etc etc.

Its a small market, and because of that i'm not interested in 'cheap'.

As for gains, yes 10bhp might not be had without a remap, or it might, but i dont know why anybody would put on a totally different design manifold and not account for the change in pulse tuning. Either way, it will benefit more than the 182 manifold does, and it'll be even more beneficial to those who are pushing the boundaries further than playing with a stock engine.

As for FI, thats a preference, you'll always make more power no doubt, but i dont half find them boring.
 
  RenaultSport clio 172 mk1
Ben,

I agree £400 is out of the question in this country, but in China, I would suggestion that you could get one made for that sort of money..

Its amazing the quality of finish and the machinery available there 3rdish world countries.

Have you ever considered this?

Giles
 
no, i come from china and there is no way that i will trust them to build quality.......only quantity.
 
  Black 172 MK2
benr - would your design of mani fit straight to the 172 if it had a sports cat or decat etc?
 
  Lionel Richie
WrongJohn said:
I reckon forced induction is the only way to see power from these cars - not that its the way forward for everyone though.

Regards
John.

thats SO SO SO SO SO SO WRONG!!!

turbo! :dead:
 


Top