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We have 2 designs already for stock type and higher rpm engines.
They are 2 peice and will mean that the subframe does not have to be dropped, significantly reducing labour costs. Which pretty much makes up for the additional cost of the significantly better designed 4-2-1 manifold from us.
However there has not been enough interest to push the items into batch production.
They are 2 peice and will mean that the subframe does not have to be dropped, significantly reducing labour costs. Which pretty much makes up for the additional cost of the significantly better designed 4-2-1 manifold from us.
However there has not been enough interest to push the items into batch production.
edde said:
The manifold will be configured for the most appropriate and common applications, namely stock rpm region use. Anybody who is wishing for a manifold configured for higher rpm band use will be far a few between therefore cost isnt such an issue for someone seeking each percetage gain.
The only way you will get a 100% optimised manifold is if you design it specifically to obtain a signal peak at the rpm range you will be using most, since all manifolds have peak's and troughs in the signal range and affect the whole rpm powerband.
W
WrongJohn
Excuse me saying so but....
Surely once a design is in place, it shouldnt cost this much to produce manifolds.
I used to run Civics and although I agree there are far more aftermarket parts for them surely the difference in price for a Clio 4 pot shouldnt run to £500 - assuming a workable design is known.
Civic Manifolds are about £200 for 4-1 and £300 for 4-2-1 unbranded but with proven gains. Stick another £100.00 on those prices for a brand like Skunk2 or similar.
Thats still a good £350 - £400 less than the prices being quoted here for Clio manifolds.
What makes them so pricey?
John
Surely once a design is in place, it shouldnt cost this much to produce manifolds.
I used to run Civics and although I agree there are far more aftermarket parts for them surely the difference in price for a Clio 4 pot shouldnt run to £500 - assuming a workable design is known.
Civic Manifolds are about £200 for 4-1 and £300 for 4-2-1 unbranded but with proven gains. Stick another £100.00 on those prices for a brand like Skunk2 or similar.
Thats still a good £350 - £400 less than the prices being quoted here for Clio manifolds.
What makes them so pricey?
John
MarkCup
ClioSport Club Member
Lack of demand I'd have thought?
W
WrongJohn
Surely creating a healthy market is up to... ummm. Clio owners clubs 
I reckon someone in the UK will custom build one to spec for £500 ish - like they would a Civic one. Get 10 orders and it will drop a bit.
People are offering Manifolds built in that way now, just like any old clown can make you a custom stainless steel exhaust now.... Cant vouch for quality but to be fair the custom manis I saw on Civics where all very high standard because they were largely made by small time guys who actually cared for their products and their pride.
John.
I reckon someone in the UK will custom build one to spec for £500 ish - like they would a Civic one. Get 10 orders and it will drop a bit.
People are offering Manifolds built in that way now, just like any old clown can make you a custom stainless steel exhaust now.... Cant vouch for quality but to be fair the custom manis I saw on Civics where all very high standard because they were largely made by small time guys who actually cared for their products and their pride.
John.
BMW 330d :)
The 172 cup is the lightest of all of them so there...
WrongJohn said:
The designs your quoting such as DC sports, skunk 2, mugen, spoon yadda yadda yadda, are not small exhaust operations, but large companies that own and run whole exhuast manufacturing factories for every japanese sports and non sports model under the sun. Natural economies of scale means a world wide operation where they build manifolds in batch by the thousands to meet world demand, is going to be far cheaper than a single guy in enland making 10.
Saying that, if you go for a PROPER honda manifold from SMSP, RMF, DTR, Hytec or Burns then you'll be getting a hand fabricated to order and engine specification applicable (rather than an off the shelf rubbish DC/Skunk2) and it'll take a good 2 months to get to you and cost the same £600-800 depending on design.
And quite simply, the designs you mentioned which cost £200-£400 arent of the most impressive design and execution.
that is why it costs more.
p.s i do alot of honda work so know the ins and outs of the industry
W
WrongJohn
BenR said:The designs your quoting such as DC sports, skunk 2, mugen, spoon yadda yadda yadda, are not small exhaust operations, but large companies that own and run whole exhuast manufacturing factories for every japanese sports and non sports model under the sun. Natural economies of scale means a world wide operation where they build manifolds in batch by the thousands to meet world demand, is going to be far cheaper than a single guy in enland making 10.
Saying that, if you go for a PROPER honda manifold from SMSP, RMF, DTR, Hytec or Burns then you'll be getting a hand fabricated to order and engine specification applicable (rather than an off the shelf rubbish DC/Skunk2) and it'll take a good 2 months to get to you and cost the same £600-800 depending on design.
And quite simply, the designs you mentioned which cost £200-£400 arent of the most impressive design and execution.
that is why it costs more.
p.s i do alot of honda work so know the ins and outs of the industry
Interesting that you assume I'm just another donut that doesn't understand simple economics.
I don't disagree about the fact that larger operations can produce things cheaper - this is a simple fact and can't be denied. My argument is that Clio manifolds COULD be cheaper. The design is in place so there is no R&D cost - all thats needed is the raw material, the tools required for machining and some skilled labour.
Granted - someone would have to be willing to say 'Yep I will have a crack and make one for £500' I reckon said person would turn a reasonable profit from that no doubt - then the rest of us can put a deposit down and get 10 for £450 each potentially.
We all know what a manifold is made of, we know the quality of the bends and welds is what counts - if someone can machine one of the standard in the 182 then I would be game, branded or not.
I think its a waste of time for 10bhp anyway. I doubt you would see 10 without remap, better breathing etc anyway but I would love to spend £500 and be wrong!
I reckon forced induction is the only way to see power from these cars - not that its the way forward for everyone though.
Regards
John.
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WrongJohn
chris_p said:
WrongJohn said:
I'm not doubting you understand basic economics, i'm doubting just how much you understand in terms of the way I and my company deals with its own design products. I do not do gash, half arsed, bodged or even 'good' jobs. I only use the best, and the best costs. Sure i could flog out a manifold that used formed or pressed collectors, easy going heavy mig welds and none of the fancy implementations i have in the manifold design....belt one out for £400. But i dont want to, other people can do that, i'm not here to make large sums of money by pushing cheaper products, I like making the best because its what i'm interested in.
For example, people will almost always use 305SS where i would only use 321SS, investment cast flanges, true merge collectors, transitions and anti reversal dual bore primaries, V band clamps not slip fit etc etc.
Its a small market, and because of that i'm not interested in 'cheap'.
As for gains, yes 10bhp might not be had without a remap, or it might, but i dont know why anybody would put on a totally different design manifold and not account for the change in pulse tuning. Either way, it will benefit more than the 182 manifold does, and it'll be even more beneficial to those who are pushing the boundaries further than playing with a stock engine.
As for FI, thats a preference, you'll always make more power no doubt, but i dont half find them boring.
Ben,
I agree £400 is out of the question in this country, but in China, I would suggestion that you could get one made for that sort of money..
Its amazing the quality of finish and the machinery available there 3rdish world countries.
Have you ever considered this?
Giles
I agree £400 is out of the question in this country, but in China, I would suggestion that you could get one made for that sort of money..
Its amazing the quality of finish and the machinery available there 3rdish world countries.
Have you ever considered this?
Giles
biojo said:
£700 odd for 10bhp :dead:
