172 conversion guide and details (issue 1)

[leon-and-vicky]

ah right i see.how much will one of them set me back?and then i just leave the wiring for the electronic one there do i?

 

[MATT BLACK]

£50 - yeh just hide the connector

 

[leon-and-vicky]

ok awsome!

 

[DeanJ]

Also to add to the thread,

buying a used engine is all well and good but ensure you see it running before you fit it. Make sure the drive shafts are good and the gearbox is ok... most cars have been in a crash and the boxes dont survive.

if you get a subframe with your kit make sure it isnt bent.

if the car has an after market alarm fitted when broken ensure that is supplied or you know a good auto electrician who'll be able to fix the loom back up.

ensure that when the loom is removed from the car the upmost care is taken when handling the UCH also if your bits go into storage ensure the UCH is kept dry a new one is over £250 + programming.

as for fitting i prefere over the top but if its all mounted on a good subframe and you have a 4 post, then drop the car over the new built up front end will take you a lot less timewise.

FAO: Matt, would it be possible to see your the 172cup conversion u have for sale running?

and can you gaurantee the box/dshafts are in good order

as to the aftermarket alarm I'm not so bothered as I'm confident with wiring but it would help to know does the 172cup conversion's loom you have for sale have an aftermarket alarm fitted?

also do you know the mileage of the cup?

Regards Dean

 

[MOFO]

£2500 is a good price - the most fun part is doing the conversion yourself though - you will learn a lot from the experience and feel a sense of achievement when its complete ( and you will save £1000 )

i would love to try it myself but i dont have the tools and if i did it i would have a car either lol.

 

[DeanJ]

£2500 is a good price - the most fun part is doing the conversion yourself though - you will learn a lot from the experience and feel a sense of achievement when its complete ( and you will save £1000 )

i would love to try it myself but i dont have the tools and if i did it i would have a car either lol.

Halfrauds do a really good IIRC 150pc set for £100
I've got one and there really good quality. I have snap-on gear too and that's usually just snapping off.

http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/...ick&langId=-1&catalogId=10151&ddkey=ClickInfo

 

[16v_jon]

Also to add to the thread,

buying a used engine is all well and good but ensure you see it running before you fit it. Make sure the drive shafts are good and the gearbox is ok... most cars have been in a crash and the boxes dont survive.

if you get a subframe with your kit make sure it isnt bent.

if the car has an after market alarm fitted when broken ensure that is supplied or you know a good auto electrician who'll be able to fix the loom back up.

ensure that when the loom is removed from the car the upmost care is taken when handling the UCH also if your bits go into storage ensure the UCH is kept dry a new one is over £250 + programming.

as for fitting i prefere over the top but if its all mounted on a good subframe and you have a 4 post, then drop the car over the new built up front end will take you a lot less timewise.

FAO: Matt, would it be possible to see your the 172cup conversion u have for sale running?

and can you gaurantee the box/dshafts are in good order

as to the aftermarket alarm I'm not so bothered as I'm confident with wiring but it would help to know does the 172cup conversion's loom you have for sale have an aftermarket alarm fitted?

also do you know the mileage of the cup?

Regards Dean

If you buy stuff from matts place they'll sort you out if somthing goes wrong. Ive spent thousends there now and they always look after me.

 

[DeanJ]

Thanks for the reassurance. I Thought they would be fine etc, Matt's a nice bloke from what i've seen of him so I wouldn't think he would diddle me.

Regards Dean

 

[leon-and-vicky]

If you have a 99 car with a standard accelerator pedal its easier - simply buy a clio MK1 172 throttle body ( cable type ) and fix that onto the MK2 172 lump. The engines are identical bar the throttle body. Attach the MK1 throttle body onto the MK2 lump and run the accelerator cable from your pedal to the throttle linkage - thats it !!

i was just reading through some of thr threads on here and in this one http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?t=194694 it says you cant run the mk1 throttle body on a mk2 lump?is this true?or will it work with just unplugging the electronic throttle body like matt said?
or will i have to change the ecu and all that like this thread says?
thanks

 

[leon-and-vicky]

any more info on this conversion yet people?

 

[16v_jon]

leon-and-vicky - are you using the MK 2 loom and engine but you want to keep a cable throttle?

 

[Martin_172]

We put a 2.0 red top in a corsa a couple of weeks ago in a double garage with no engine crane.

just dropped the front end of the car right on the ground, unbolted engine then got couple of guys to lift front end of car over engine and we took 1.2 16v engine out from underneath then same way to refit 2.0. bit of hastle but possible, this will be how my clio is getting done next month too!

 

[DeanJ]

2.0 red top as in the Vauxhall Calibra 16v engine?

 

[16v_jon]

red top's the C20XE cam in calibra, astra and cav

 

[leon-and-vicky]

leon-and-vicky - are you using the MK 2 loom and engine but you want to keep a cable throttle?

no ive sorted it now mate im going to get the electronic accelerator pedel and use that.how come none of this is shown in the pics?because the clio in the pic is a phase one and the engine is out of a mk2 172 it says.and it doesnt show the fuel pump being changed.does all that need to be done too?

 

[16v_jon]

Some phase 1's come with 3 fuel pipes one sender one breather via the charcoal canister and one return. If you have the 3 arrangement you'll need to change the lines and pump or block the return you have in at the moment. The pumps are all the same in the phase 2's im not sure about the phase one cars- just look under the car and see if you have 3 black pipes running down the drivers side

 

[DeanJ]

Jon,

Can you post some more info on what models carry what fuel pumps i.e Mk2 Ph1 1998 RN 1.2 what fuel arrangment would that have and what work would neet be carried out on the fuel pump arrangments.

 

[16v_jon]

Is this the car you are converting Mk2 Ph1 1998 RN 1.2?

 

[DeanJ]

Yes to a 172 Mk2 Ph2 Cup (I believe depends on where i get engine from)

 

[16v_jon]

to put the cut engine in a phase 1 RN you'll need to chage quite a few things. my mates got an RN 1.2 8v it has 3 fuel lines there fore you may need to change the pump and the 3 lines to 2 and block the 3rd hole in the tank.

you'll have to change the whole dash to fit all the new wiring in, if you want electric windows you'll need to change the wiring into the doors or mod it to work (the connectors for the window regulators are different) obviously change the acc pedal to the electric one - they fit in the same place.

the rear loom will have to be changed or modified for use with the connectors for rear lights, fuel pump and number plate light.

The rest of it is pretty easy - are you looking to build the car as a sleeper and not bothered about some parts working correctly or will it be your everyday car and you want everything to work?

 

[leon-and-vicky]

mine is a phase 1 aswell.so the rear loom on my car wont plug into the new 172 loom will it?isit easy to wire them together?
thanks

 

[ShaunG]

leon-and-vicky - are you using the MK 2 loom and engine but you want to keep a cable throttle?

no ive sorted it now mate im going to get the electronic accelerator pedel and use that.how come none of this is shown in the pics?because the clio in the pic is a phase one and the engine is out of a mk2 172 it says.and it doesnt show the fuel pump being changed.does all that need to be done too?

you need to swap the pump. the 1.2 clio Rn clio doesn't have a fuel pressure regulater in the pump it is part of the injection rail on the 1.2 engine whilst on the 172 the fuel pump has a pressure regulator built into the pump

 

[ShaunG]

mine is a phase 1 aswell.so the rear loom on my car wont plug into the new 172 loom will it?isit easy to wire them together?
thanks

you'll need a renault wiring diagram to wire up the rear to the front or ring up a scrap yard and buy a loom. try 01254 386661.

 

[ShaunG]

pm me if need any help with your conversion. i fitted mine and got it running in about 8 hours

 

[leon-and-vicky]

oh ok thanks mate!!!much appreciated!!

 

[DeanJ]

Hey Jon

The electric windows have already been done and work completely seperate from my dash loom bypassing the timer box etc so this would not be an issue and the new loom could easily be adapted to fit my moderations. The car is HEAVILY modified so I have no choice but to use the exisiting dashboard with the custom clocks I have in but it is simply a case of one by one finding the line which does the task i.e. engine rpm wire to go to my dials RPM signal input.

The rear number plate light is non applicable as where standard number plate is this has been flushed and the number plate is at the bottom of the bumper with custom wiring for the lighting.

adapting and modifiying the wiring is no problem for me as I have a fair bit of knowledge with automotive wiring and a lot of experience with micro electronics so the principals are similar and I grasp the concepts of electronics.

Regards Dean.

 

[edde]

but it is simply a case of one by one finding the line which does the task i.e. engine rpm wire to go to my dials RPM signal input.

Yep the wiring loom pin out can be posted up there along with there associated colours.

 

[16v_jon]

Problem is the mk2 clio loom is multiplexed (to an extent) some devices such as controls for the indicators, the clocks and warning lights use a 'bus' network and the same wires for communicating with the ECU and UCH, they work on an electrical pulse to identify them to the ECU. whilst you could start messing about chopping wires finding out what they do and where they go you will run into problems with fault finding.

My honest advise to you is to use the mk1 172 loom, and front engine set up. If you are worried about the age of the engine then i would fit all looms ecu and uber ecu from the phase 1 along with the throttle body to a cup engine. you dont need an accual cup engine just do away with the air-con pump by fitting the alternator bracket arrangement from the cup.

 

[leon-and-vicky]

sorry to gatecrash your convo but heres some pics of the looms i had with my engine.i want to know if the loom for the rear of the car is here,ive identified the engine loom and the dash loom so im guuessing the other one is the loom for the rear of the car?
thanks
p.s sory theres so many pics!

 

[16v_jon]

rear loom is photo 6

 

[leon-and-vicky]

thanks for that mate!!!!well chuffed now! one more thing i wanted to ask was what do i do with the power steering on the new engine?do i plumb it in?coz i think mine is electrial power steering?can i remove the pump on the new engine?coz if i run it dry it will sieze up.
thanks

 

[16v_jon]

If you run it dry it will set on fire like mine did LOL
do you have the rack, pump and pipes from the 1x2 for hydro power steering?

 

[leon-and-vicky]

yeh ive got the pump atached to the engineand ie got the rack with a few pipes still atatched

 

[16v_jon]

Change it to hyraulic power steering then it has a much better feel and less turn to turn than the electric, have you got the column?

 

[leon-and-vicky]

yes i had the whole lot

 

[DeanJ]

Will those clocks fit in the ph1 dash at all?

 

[leon-and-vicky]

im not 2 sure. someone said on here before that they wont, i've got the new dash 2 put in with it so i wont know if they'll fit the old dash

 

[16v_jon]

they dont fit as the top dash is the wrong shape

 

[leon-and-vicky]

Change it to hyraulic power steering then it has a much better feel and less turn to turn than the electric, have you got the column?

so all i need is the rack and the column isit?i have some pipes still atatched but if i havnt got them all are they expensive?

 

[DeanJ]

leon can you please post more pics of various things you have for conversion

would you be able to post a close up of the front and back of the clocks/dials, the engine in various positions? the engine loom closer up and the top/bottom of the UCH.

Thanks
Regards Dean