172 cup hub

[Mordente10]

Hi guys,

had a mare earlier when removing my alloy, I managed I snap one of the bolts wich now means I need to purchase a diff hub. I have a cup so this means I do not need an abs sensor on the hub. all the ones so far seem to have an abs sensor attached, would it make a diff if I use one that has an abs sensor or not?

thanks.

 

[dunc_sx]

Yes the cup one's are different, you specifically need a cup one. You could try removing the stud first though.

Dunc.

 

[mark123]

The 172 cup front hub is the same as all other 172s and non cup packed 182s as well. Only 182 cup/cup pack have different front hubs. Won't make any difference if it has the sensors or not.

 

[dunc_sx]

The 172 cup front hub is the same as all other 172s and non cup packed 182s as well. Only 182 cup/cup pack have different front hubs. Won't make any difference if it has the sensors or not.

That's strange, I got a 172 hub fitted to my 172cup when I got the car (came with the car) and although it fits fine it gives vastly different offset and camber. I'm going to be getting the original helicoiled and refitted.

Dunc.

 

[Chip-mk1]

That's strange, I got a 172 hub fitted to my 172cup when I got the car (came with the car) and although it fits fine it gives a different offset and camber. I'm going to be getting the original helicoiled and refitted.

Dunc.

Ive compared cup and non cup and there were no camber or offset differences at all :S

 

[dunc_sx]

Ive compared cup and non cup and there were no camber or offset differences at all :S

They looked identical (except the ABS) when off the car but when fitted it gave approx 1° camber difference (less -ve with the non-cup) and not sure about the offset but looks different visually.

That's checking the geometry before and after with 4 wheel laser alignment. I know because immediately after fitting the tracking was miles out so I had to head straight back to the alignment place.

If they were identical then I doubt Renault would have produced a new casting specifically (at great cost) for the cup models when they could use a 172 one and just leave the ABS part redundant.

I'm no expert of Clio's, just stating my experience to help the OP

If someone could post the std geo details for cup and non-cup perhaps this would help, I don't know this info though.

Dunc.

 

[NorthloopCup]

So if the hubs on a 172 cup are the same as a normal 172 and non cup packed 182, why does the 172 have slightly longer steering arms compared to a normal 172? Also, how does the different track width come about on a 172 cup then? The offset on the turinis does part of it, but not all of it.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[mark123]

The holes in the subframe that the wishbones bolts to on the 172 cup are further out.

So different subframe, hence the longer driveshafts and and track rods.

 

[NorthloopCup]

The holes in the subframe that the wishbones bolts to on the 172 cup are further out.

So different subframe, hence the longer driveshafts and and track rods.

Ah! Nice work!

 

[Chip-mk1]

They looked identical (except the ABS) when off the car but when fitted it gave approx 1° camber difference (less -ve with the non-cup) and not sure about the offset but looks different visually.

That's checking the geometry before and after with 4 wheel laser alignment. I know because immediately after fitting the tracking was miles out so I had to head straight back to the alignment place.

If they were identical then I doubt Renault would have produced a new casting specifically (at great cost) for the cup models when they could use a 172 one and just leave the ABS part redundant.

I'm no expert of Clio's, just stating my experience to help the OP

If someone could post the std geo details for cup and non-cup perhaps this would help, I don't know this info though.

Dunc.

Possible the holes were drilled very slightly differently I guess to give different camber, even in the same casting as they would be machined after casting..

There was definately no width difference, we measured the balljoint hole to the mounting face of the drive flange and it was exactly the same.




Some of that 1 degree difference might have been down to a reading difference? or even down to how you lined it up when fitting, the bolts arent an interference fit through the shock and as such Ive found if you slacken the bolts off you can get about half that sort of difference but by pulling and pushing on it.

Do you have any pictures of the cup hub you measured, as the ones that I checked from (was from 2 different cars) were exactly the same casting number on them as the non cup ones.

So maybe renault only fitted the "special" cup ones to a small number of the cups?

 

[Chip-mk1]

The holes in the subframe that the wishbones bolts to on the 172 cup are further out.

So different subframe, hence the longer driveshafts and and track rods.

Is that definately true about the subframe?

As it doesnt make much sense to me given that the cups have 20mm wider track book figures IIRC than the non cups and the wheels are 10mm wider offset, so that implies the hubs are in the same place in terms of width.

I thought the longer arms were possibly due to the wishbone having more caster meaning that the track rods are pointing forwards more on a cup?

 

[dunc_sx]

That's interesting, I'll get a pic of the cup one that came off - it's sitting out ready to get a helicoil.

Some of that 1 degree difference might have been down to a reading difference? or even down to how you lined it up when fitting, the bolts arent an interference fit through the shock and as such Ive found if you slacken the bolts off you can get about half that sort of difference but by pulling and pushing on it.

It deffo wasn't down to the play in the bolts as we slackened them all and put them hard up in our favour to equalise with the other side as much as possible. Still confused as to why Renault wouldn't just use the exact same part as the 172 non-cup?

I'll have a look tonight, need to get it sorted out soon anyway.

Cheers,

Dunc.

 

[Dan@SJM]

Is that definately true about the subframe?

As it doesnt make much sense to me given that the cups have 20mm wider track book figures IIRC than the non cups and the wheels are 10mm wider offset, so that implies the hubs are in the same place in terms of width.

I thought the longer arms were possibly due to the wishbone having more caster meaning that the track rods are pointing forwards more on a cup?

I've got mine and Emma's in this weekend at some point so ill get them both on the ramp and have a measure

 

[mark123]

My 172 cup versus a ph1 172 subframe. I guess they could be like that on all ph2s?

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/show...ack-rod-ends&p=9121769&viewfull=1#post9121769

 

[Chip-mk1]

My 172 cup versus a ph1 172 subframe. I guess they could be like that on all ph2s?

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/show...ack-rod-ends&p=9121769&viewfull=1#post9121769

I've got mine and Emma's in this weekend at some point so ill get them both on the ramp and have a measure

Sounds like we will know soon if its all phase 2 or just the cup.

Personally I think it will be all, just because the cup quoted track is only different on the front by the amount of offset in the wheels, but that could be renault not publishing accurate data I guess!

 

[mark123]

Not definitive but I had a quick look through Hoofy's thread as I remembered he had a non cup ph2 and had done some subframe mods.

I found a pic that shows the subframe wishbone mounting holes and they look more like the ph1 holes in my pics. Difficult to be sure though.

Scroll down to the 3rd pic in the post and you can see the original mounting holes.

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/show...nTops-Entry)&p=8943167&viewfull=1#post8943167

 

[Chip-mk1]

If you have the subframe off anyway, widening the track on those holes is certainly easily done.

Or just move the back one outward if you want caster increased.

Shame they are a bit of a pain to alter while its on the car, but if you just elongate them and then weld a plate with a drilled hole in at the point you want it would be quite easily done.

 

[Mordente10]

Cheers for the info lads, I eventually just played it safe and bought a 172 cup hub, anyway carry on with the debate this info could be useful to others too

cheers,

Marc.