172 Cup Lower Ball Joint Knowledge?

[Jimbo_924]

Hi Guys,

Hope everyone's had a good Christmas and enjoyed the wet weather antics available in their Clio's! The bold question is all I'm really asking the rest is just a rant so feel free to skip down.

I recently found a bit of play in the drivers side ball joint, so talked to renault, who wanted £70 + VAT for the whole front arm. Thought that was a bit much so got a ball joint from UniPart and fitted it with no problems (apart from them giving me std course thread M12's when Renault fitted fine threads, altho the existing one's were ok).

Anyway, just drove the car for the first time since and its heading left slightly with the wheel straight. I had the car geo'd a couple of months ago and having no disturbed any rubber components whilst fitting the ball joint was both surprised and annoyed! The part looked spot on so stupidly I didn't measure it, which I will do when its light again tomorrow. But as a quick question for tonight......

Just wanted to ask if anyone knew if the Cup had a slightly different ball joint (longer) version, which UniPart's system doesn't know about?

(With the wider track, moving the lower joint out makes sense to correct the scrub radius (albeit increase the KPI), so I can see why Renault might have done it, but clearly if I've just fitted a sorter one then I'd be running more toe in, hence pulling left)

Cheers, James

 

[Gman]

The 'cups' use the same wishbone/ball joints as all other 172/182 so the issue must be else where. It's the front hubs that give the different track and also more castor.

 

[Jimbo_924]

Thanks buddy, I'll have a look tomorrow then and double check UniPart are right and then double check that I've done my bit right!

 

[Jimbo_924]

Bit of an Update for you all....

I've measured and lined up the new part I got from Unipart (Part No: GSJ4682) with the old joint which was original Renault and the Unipart component is around 3.5mm shorter from the outboard fixing centre to the ball joint centre!

I rang Renault West London and confirmed the 172 and the 172 Cup have the exact same part number for the arm & wishbone assembly on their system (thanks Gman, you were spot on!) as they don't supply the joint on its own. I then rang UniPart to confirm I have been given the correct part (GSJ4682). Clearly this shows that this component is quite simply not made to the original specification!

Do Not Buy the 12mm fixing UniPart lower ball joint (Part No: GSJ4682) as their supplier has quite simply got it wrong, and 3.5mm is far too much to be a poor tolerance, its just wrong.

I've rang Eurocarparts and they have 2 options in stock at £14 & £18 and they've got no problem with me taking in the original part and a set of calipers to confirm if either of their options are okay. So I'll let you guys know what I find.
In the mean time, if anyone has fitted the UniPart component on any of their 1*2's then I suspect you've got the same issue. You may not notice if you've done both sides, but will be running excessive toe in, along with the excessive tyre wear to go with it! (and very slightly narrower track, lower KPI/greater scrub radius)

 

[Dave Hester]

I had the same problem last year.

Turns out a laguna ball joint fits but come with 10mm holes as apposed to the 12mm holes u need.

Drilled them out to 12 mm and they fit perfect

Do a search on here for more info mate

 

[mr.pink87]

10mm holed balljoints are the non-sport items.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Wow, 3.5mm on that sort of component is a hell of a large tolerance to be wrong by, even by cheap motor factor standards that really is shocking if what you see is correct!

 

[Cup_Phil]

12mm Renault 19 ball joint - it's an identical copy and perfect fit

It's been stated about a million times on here before

 

[lemonnobby]

you can buy 10mm or 12mm hole ones i use first line ones no probs

 

[mr.pink87]

Again: 10mm for non sports, 12mm for 1*2s. If you use the incorrect ones, you'll misalign the front axle geometry.

 

[b2-stingray]

I need a ball Joint for my 182... This is what GFS have listed, anyone know 100% the correct one?


Clio

Renault 19

 

[Fred@BTM]

pm maynard, he works for GSF

 

[b2-stingray]

the codes are R19 424RE016, R19 424RE001 (M10), Clio 424RE0230 (M12), 424RE016 btw

 

[Cup_Phil]

I've probably got the invoice from GSF for mine at home - if no-ones answered you by tonight I'll hunt it out and let you know mate

 

[b2-stingray]

Cheers Phil, take it you didnt have any issues with the GSF part?

 

[Cup_Phil]

Nope - it was a mirror image of the old part - fitted easily - done 5 track days on it and no problems at all
It's seen some serious abuse

 

[Braveheart]

Was someone able to confirm the GSF part number? I also need to order one for my 172 Cup and it's confusing why GSF's website offers two options with part numbers:
424RE0230 (£12.00)
424RE0160 (£11.52)

 

[rich-6]

Im needing one for a 182 cup, i fitted a qh one a while ago and since did the same it pulled left, I think it was also the wrong length. I'm not totally convinced the bottom arms are all the same either as much as people say they are, Ive just fitted some arms from a 172 cup, and my car suddenly got quite a bit of camber which i've had to dial out, Thankfully the arms are only going to be on a week

 

[b2-stingray]

Well guys, fitted the m12 one today 424RE0230 and all seems fine, the two looked exactly same and the car doesnt pull to one side or have the wrong camber. So all good.

 

[b2-stingray]

One thing I did notice, the outer most bolt that holds the ball joint to the lower ARM was captive on both arms, is this what other people have found, why do they give you bolts in that case?

 

[Cup_Phil]

I had same issue

One of the bolts on the arm came out and I swapped it for a brand new one - but the outer most bolt seems pressed in and wouldn't budge so I just left it there

Been fine all year

 

[Jimbo_924]

I had same issue

One of the bolts on the arm came out and I swapped it for a brand new one - but the outer most bolt seems pressed in and wouldn't budge so I just left it there

Been fine all year

Heya Phil and Stingray, the outer bolt is splined to the arm and would require a lot of force to get it out. It just means that you can undo it without having to get to the top, since there isn't really any access. I've not replaced it on mine either since it was in good nick. So I've only replaced the 2nd fixing and the pinch bolt.

As for my story it did all end well. I went to Eurocarparts who had two in stock and they let me take them out and have a look at both. The Lemforder part (http://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/c/R...3766563e168d605e33c633301b636a1cefd3fe&000019) is streaks ahead in quality and since they are made by ZF (the company who supply Renault with most their chassis components) it is probably made from the same tooling that produced the original. It includes two 10.9 fine thread M12's (not the coarse rubbish included with the others) and a replacement pinch bolt + nut too. I measured it all up and fitted it and the car is back to its best!

They also had this part http://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/c/R...3766563e168d605e33c633301b636a1cefd3fe&000019 which measured up fine. But its not got the same quality and is supplied with coarse thread fixings and no pinch bolt.

As for the GSF part it is going back when I get a chance and they've agreed a refund. But I'm going to contact their head office and ask it to be pulled from sale because its WRONG!!

Jimbo

 

[b2-stingray]

Jimbo are you saying the gsf part is wrong? Seemed ok on mine, it also had the fine theads on the bolts and was stamped up on the bottom with a brand?

 

[Jimbo_924]

Jimbo are you saying the gsf part is wrong? Seemed ok on mine, it also had the fine theads on the bolts and was stamped up on the bottom with a brand?

Woops! Sorry no I'm not! I just read GSF and accidentally wrote it. I meant to say Unipart there! As in my 2nd post on the first page, sorry!

 

[b2-stingray]

Yer did read back through the post and thought that maybe the case lol phew, anyway the GSF part i bought was made by Viaco, cant find much about them on google tbh but if a company is willing to stamp there logo/name on a a part then maybe its a good sign ha

 

[Gee Man]

Heya Phil and Stingray, the outer bolt is splined to the arm and would require a lot of force to get it out. It just means that you can undo it without having to get to the top, since there isn't really any access. I've not replaced it on mine either since it was in good nick. So I've only replaced the 2nd fixing and the pinch bolt.

As for my story it did all end well. I went to Eurocarparts who had two in stock and they let me take them out and have a look at both. The Lemforder part (http://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/c/R...3766563e168d605e33c633301b636a1cefd3fe&000019) is streaks ahead in quality and since they are made by ZF (the company who supply Renault with most their chassis components) it is probably made from the same tooling that produced the original. It includes two 10.9 fine thread M12's (not the coarse rubbish included with the others) and a replacement pinch bolt + nut too. I measured it all up and fitted it and the car is back to its best!

They also had this part http://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/c/R...3766563e168d605e33c633301b636a1cefd3fe&000019 which measured up fine. But its not got the same quality and is supplied with coarse thread fixings and no pinch bolt.

As for the GSF part it is going back when I get a chance and they've agreed a refund. But I'm going to contact their head office and ask it to be pulled from sale because its WRONG!!

Jimbo

Perfect I need one of these!! I'll pick one up tomorrow the knocking is driving me CRAZY. Cheers

 

[HairbearTE]

Perfect I need one of these!! I'll pick one up tomorrow the knocking is driving me CRAZY. Cheers

The Lemforder stuff is top notch and for any suspension parts you can't go wrong with it. They make a lot of the parts fitted by the oems at the factory. Often you may see grind marks on Lemforder parts purchased in the aftermarket, this is where the part is actually basically a genuine part but Lemforder have to grind off the VW/Bmw logo etc in order to sell it in the aftermarket.