172 Cup or 182 Cup?

[Ex-User (19928)]

I have actually been considering a 182cup as a play car recently. I doubt I'll ever get one though.

I would choose the 182 cup, simply because it's the mid point between a 172cup and a 182. ABS, Air con, sports cat, no xenons (that's a good thing in my book), cruise control (although the Clio CC is pretty dodgy...).

The wheels give bad cooling for the brakes and are comparitively heavy. Sell them and get some 172cup wheels or just some average Rota Slipstreams.

You say ABS isn't important, if you're hammering it round country lanes one day, and you turn a corner with a van parked on your side of the road, if it takes you by suprise, you're going to mash the pedal. Now sure, you might regain braking control. But will it be too late ?? I sure as hell wouldn't like to chance it, and I consider myself a competent driver, lack of ABS wouldn't bother me on a motorway or a track. But round town, country lanes. You can stick your 80kg weight saving. Which I would guess you could bring down to a difference of 60kg with lighter wheels and no spare tyre.

 

[daviebroon]

I have actually been considering a 182cup as a play car recently. I doubt I'll ever get one though.

I would choose the 182 cup, simply because it's the mid point between a 172cup and a 182. ABS, Air con, sports cat, no xenons (that's a good thing in my book), cruise control (although the Clio CC is pretty dodgy...).

The wheels give bad cooling for the brakes and are comparitively heavy. Sell them and get some 172cup wheels or just some average Rota Slipstreams.

You say ABS isn't important, if you're hammering it round country lanes one day, and you turn a corner with a van parked on your side of the road, if it takes you by suprise, you're going to mash the pedal. Now sure, you might regain braking control. But will it be too late ?? I sure as hell wouldn't like to chance it, and I consider myself a competent driver, lack of ABS wouldn't bother me on a motorway or a track. But round town, country lanes. You can stick your 80kg weight saving. Which I would guess you could bring down to a difference of 60kg with lighter wheels and no spare tyre.

oh dear...

 

[jiminy]

buy a 172 cup or the ff182

 

[MarkCup]

I have actually been considering a 182cup as a play car recently. I doubt I'll ever get one though.

I would choose the 182 cup, simply because it's the mid point between a 172cup and a 182. ABS, Air con, sports cat, no xenons (that's a good thing in my book), cruise control (although the Clio CC is pretty dodgy...).

The wheels give bad cooling for the brakes and are comparitively heavy. Sell them and get some 172cup wheels or just some average Rota Slipstreams.

You say ABS isn't important, if you're hammering it round country lanes one day, and you turn a corner with a van parked on your side of the road, if it takes you by suprise, you're going to mash the pedal. Now sure, you might regain braking control. But will it be too late ?? I sure as hell wouldn't like to chance it, and I consider myself a competent driver, lack of ABS wouldn't bother me on a motorway or a track. But round town, country lanes. You can stick your 80kg weight saving. Which I would guess you could bring down to a difference of 60kg with lighter wheels and no spare tyre.

If that were true, you would never drive at a speed at which you cannot comfortably stop within the distance you can see to be clear on your side of the carriageway.

Common sense really.

 

[Dave H]

Both great cars.I feel safer in the 182 Cup and prefer the colour with the stripe.

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

I have actually been considering a 182cup as a play car recently. I doubt I'll ever get one though.

I would choose the 182 cup, simply because it's the mid point between a 172cup and a 182. ABS, Air con, sports cat, no xenons (that's a good thing in my book), cruise control (although the Clio CC is pretty dodgy...).

The wheels give bad cooling for the brakes and are comparitively heavy. Sell them and get some 172cup wheels or just some average Rota Slipstreams.

You say ABS isn't important, if you're hammering it round country lanes one day, and you turn a corner with a van parked on your side of the road, if it takes you by suprise, you're going to mash the pedal. Now sure, you might regain braking control. But will it be too late ?? I sure as hell wouldn't like to chance it, and I consider myself a competent driver, lack of ABS wouldn't bother me on a motorway or a track. But round town, country lanes. You can stick your 80kg weight saving. Which I would guess you could bring down to a difference of 60kg with lighter wheels and no spare tyre.

If that were true, you would never drive at a speed at which you cannot comfortably stop within the distance you can see to be clear on your side of the carriageway.

Common sense really.

Where did I say I do ??

Point is, I do a lot of miles, I come across a lot of stuff, I drive busy roads. You can't plan for other people's actions, and ABS is a car saver. End of. If you don't agree, fair enough, if you never have to learn the hard way, I am glad.

 

[Brasseye]

172 cup

unless you need the abs

 

[MarkCup]

If that were true, you would never drive at a speed at which you cannot comfortably stop within the distance you can see to be clear on your side of the carriageway.

Common sense really.

Where did I say I do ??

Point is, I do a lot of miles, I come across a lot of stuff, I drive busy roads. You can't plan for other people's actions, and ABS is a car saver. End of. If you don't agree, fair enough, if you never have to learn the hard way, I am glad.

I don't disagree about it being a lifesaver, and no, I've never learnt the hard way.

I also agree that you can't plan for other people's actions, but what you described, your justification above for needing ABS, involved no-one other than yourself and a stationery vehicle.

You can take steps to minimize the likelihood of shunt though quite easily. Too many people assume that accidents are not preventable, are inevitible even...but they are preventable a huge amount of the time, and accident figures for drivers that have undergone advanced training in planning and observation support that.

Back to the original posters question, for track work, 172 Cup all day long

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

Where did I say I do ??

Point is, I do a lot of miles, I come across a lot of stuff, I drive busy roads. You can't plan for other people's actions, and ABS is a car saver. End of. If you don't agree, fair enough, if you never have to learn the hard way, I am glad.

I don't disagree about it being a lifesaver, and no, I've never learnt the hard way.

I also agree that you can't plan for other people's actions, but what you described, your justification above for needing ABS, involved no-one other than yourself and a stationery vehicle.

You can take steps to minimize the likelihood of shunt though quite easily. Too many people assume that accidents are not preventable, are inevitible even...but they are preventable a huge amount of the time, and accident figures for drivers that have undergone advanced training in planning and observation support that.

Back to the original posters question, for track work, 172 Cup all day long

Valid points. My example with the stationary vehicle was the first one that popped into my mind as I encounter it the most.

Sharp bends in the middle of nowhere, yet some guy decides it's a good place to have lunch with his gang in the van....

Perhaps a better one would be a kid running out into the road... Something everyone has seen, sure ABS will only save those few choice occasions, but for a 20kg weight saving... I'd rather keep it and take a diet just for that second that the wheels could be locked up.

Anyway, not trying to scare or critisize anyone. But I would definately take a 182 cup over a 172 cup, a second or so on track makes no difference anywhere.

 

[Brazo]

Is there such a thing as a 182cup? I know they did the 182 with cup packs etc but never knew a specific182 cup was made - bar that joke of a marketing dream

Joking aside the 'cup' in the 182 range is more of a 'trophy'

 

[Darren S]

Out of the two, I'd pick the 172 Cup. I so very nearly bought a 2nd hand one from the Reno stealers. It was 2 years old and had 10k on the clock. The reason I didn't was that for an extra £1,800 - I got a brand new 182.

I really do like the 172 Cups. Far more focused car than say a 182FF....

D.

 

[jon_r]

Would still choose the 172 Cup over all of them.

 

[stokedRich]

there is only one real Cup and that's the 172

 

[CHRIS172CUP]

172 cup anyday, the rest are average.

 

[Floodie]

and mine is the BEST of them all... BWAAA HAAA HAA HAAAAAAAA

 

[Tom]

TBR182 with 15's and SMDecat.

 

[chiefsilverback]

I thought the 172 Cup has air condition, but not climate control just like the Trophy?

At the end of the day the 172 Cup was developed for track driving, hence the removal to ESP, ABS etc...

Regarding ABS it is not designed to stop you any faster it is designed to allow you to retain control of the car under emergency braking. ABS allows you to steer round an obstacle even whilst performing an emergency stop. Some people argue not having ABS enables you to stop faster as you can hold the brakes at their optimum. ABS rapidly switches you between locked and spinning wheels!

On the car front you could get a nice diesel for day to day driving and have a Fisher Fury for track work and weekend fun....

 

[CHRIS172CUP]

TBR182 with 15's and SMDecat.

Don't forget Jon_r racing brakes!

 

[Tim]

get the 172 cup you wont be dissapointed .

 

[Tom]

Regarding ABS it is not designed to stop you any faster it is designed to allow you to retain control of the car under emergency braking. ABS allows you to steer round an obstacle even whilst performing an emergency stop. Some people argue not having ABS enables you to stop faster as you can hold the brakes at their optimum. ABS rapidly switches you between locked and spinning wheels!

Except in snow and extremely heavy rain.

ABS is ok, but its for lazy people.

 

[Steve]

On a dry road under good conditions i can understand not having ABS.

But we live in the UK, 2/3 of the year it's damp or wet & your local council spends 2p a year on road up keep.

Under damp greasy conditions i would only ever buy a car with ABS, as it's not just my life i value but my passengers.

All the talk on here as usual is B#####ks cause you all drive better than Alonso so who can teach you anything anyway, i await your threads ala i just stuck it in a ditch, i arse ended someone how do i stand etc etc.

 

[jon_r]

TBR182 with 15's and SMDecat.

Don't forget Jon_r racing brakes!

Hey! I didn't ruin them, they were already to hot! lol. Assume they are still rumbling then?

 

[one_eight_two]

defo the 182 cup, i seem to read a new thread about this 172 or 182 almost every day tis gettin boring!!!

 

[John D]

I knew this would turn into the bloody ABS debate........

 

[Tom]

Im better than alonso! GIMP!

Doesnt he play football?

 

[ASW86]

Damn I'm confused as hell now what Cliosport to buy, i was considering the 182cup now everyone is saying its a pile of crap inside, I thought the 182cup was meant to be an improvement on its predecessor the 172cup? anyone know where i cud find a list of the differences between all the different versions?

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

Regarding ABS it is not designed to stop you any faster it is designed to allow you to retain control of the car under emergency braking. ABS allows you to steer round an obstacle even whilst performing an emergency stop. Some people argue not having ABS enables you to stop faster as you can hold the brakes at their optimum. ABS rapidly switches you between locked and spinning wheels!

Not having ABS doesn't allow you to stop any quicker. There might be times on a undulating surface when braking hard that ABS might intervene for no need, but it will soon cut out giving you full braking force again.

The main reason it is taken off cars for racing purposes, is the weight.

The debate simply comes back to, considerably more Cups are written off than normal 172s, not because the drivers are idiots. There are a fair few in that catergory that own each car.

It's simply because in Winter, the roads are cold and wet. You're more likely to lose traction, and those "everyday near misses" that happen in the summer, are now more serious.

Anyway, 172Cups are fine as long as you know how to drive slowly when you need to.

 

[Tom]

The 182 has several improvements over the 172 and the cup vairant.

However it is heavier.

The 182 cup is a bit of a weird model, its not really any better than the FF182 infact its just a ff182 in dynamique trim.

Its a smige lighter, but youd never know.

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

Damn I'm confused as hell now what Cliosport to buy, i was considering the 182cup now everyone is saying its a pile of crap inside, I thought the 182cup was meant to be an improvement on its predecessor the 172cup? anyone know where i cud find a list of the differences between all the different versions?

I think the main difference is the fact it has a few more goodies. Cruise control (although I'm under the impression you can't de-activate it by applying throttle...anyone??), air conditioning, ABS, 10bhp more.

It's got the Dynamique interior to my knowledge, I wouldn't call it a pile of crap compared to the RenaultSport interior, they're both equally lame.

Oh and it doesn't have Xenon headlamps... Which I think is a good thing considering I drive with my lights on all the time, xenon bulbs aren't exactly cheap.

 

[Lagerlout]

I have actually been considering a 182cup as a play car recently. I doubt I'll ever get one though.

I would choose the 182 cup, simply because it's the mid point between a 172cup and a 182. ABS, Air con, sports cat, no xenons (that's a good thing in my book), cruise control (although the Clio CC is pretty dodgy...).

The wheels give bad cooling for the brakes and are comparitively heavy. Sell them and get some 172cup wheels or just some average Rota Slipstreams.

You say ABS isn't important, if you're hammering it round country lanes one day, and you turn a corner with a van parked on your side of the road, if it takes you by suprise, you're going to mash the pedal. Now sure, you might regain braking control. But will it be too late ?? I sure as hell wouldn't like to chance it, and I consider myself a competent driver, lack of ABS wouldn't bother me on a motorway or a track. But round town, country lanes. You can stick your 80kg weight saving. Which I would guess you could bring down to a difference of 60kg with lighter wheels and no spare tyre.

If that were true, you would never drive at a speed at which you cannot comfortably stop within the distance you can see to be clear on your side of the carriageway.

Common sense really.

I've said it so many times. It's the other people you simply cannot account for. You can drive to the conditions - I do. But I can't stop a 75 year old man pulling out of a blind junction on me can I? Or do Cup owners have ESP of a different kind?

 

[Steve]

Have any of you Cup owners been in a car that has used ABS to it's full???

Cause until you have, i would hold your breath.

Personally, doing 50mph down damp b road, old lady pulls out on me from the left, car approaching fast head on, nowhere to go.
Stamped on the brakes & just steered round her..........try that in your cup:butt:
It's not about stopping faster it's about being able to control car in unexpected circumstances.

 

[tomdbomb61_djtj]

Im a GIMP!

Doesnt he play football?

Id tend to agree with the above ^^^

 

[alexbleubolt]

yeah, but with the abs your fruckerd on snow, when i had a ff, it took me about 5 bus lengths to stop, i ended up not using the brake pedal and settling for the handbrake. slid all the way down the road past the turnnign for my road. luckily i found out how crap it was before i attemped to go down a snow hill. so proceeded to do down the hill in 1st gear with no gas or brakes, mucho safo. prefer my cup with non abs anyday

 

[Lagerlout]

Yeah cause I bet you get tons of snow in berkshire. LOL

 

[alexbleubolt]

yeah man, its like scotland down here, i'm talking about the snow in 2002

 

[MarkCup]

Have any of you Cup owners been in a car that has used ABS to it's full???

Cause until you have, i would hold your breath.

Personally, doing 50mph down damp b road, old lady pulls out on me from the left, car approaching fast head on, nowhere to go.
Stamped on the brakes & just steered round her..........try that in your cup:butt:
It's not about stopping faster it's about being able to control car in unexpected circumstances.

Any being a good driver is about minimising risk by not putting yourself in those "unexpected circumstances".

Everyone alsways bangs on about "suddenly this happens" and you've got no chance as you'll mash the brake pedal.

Nothing happens suddenly. An 85 year old duffer in an old Metro cannot pull out of a junction "suddenly".

A junction on a blind bend will 99.9% of the time have a warning sign well in advance of it letting you know it's there. Having spotted that, if you drive round that corner at a speed whereby you cannot react, quite frankly, you deserve to have a crash (joke).

This information is available to everyone you know, not just us 172 Cup drivers

If only more people accepted that they could improve their observation, planning, and driving skills and took some kind of advanced training, there would be far less accidents on the road than the current solution of making sure everyone has ABS/ESP. That's fact.

 

[John D]

Damn I'm confused as hell now what Cliosport to buy, i was considering the 182cup now everyone is saying its a pile of crap inside, I thought the 182cup was meant to be an improvement on its predecessor the 172cup? anyone know where i cud find a list of the differences between all the different versions?

Theres a list of all the different specs on here IIRC.

As others have said: the 182 cup is a bit of a waste of time seeing as you could spec the cup packs (suspension, wheels, spoilers) on a standard 182; thereby getting the improved handling of the cup with the nicer interior/equipment of the 182FF (albeit it would be slightly heavier than a full blown 182 cup)

 

[John D]

If only more people accepted that they could improve their observation, planning, and driving skills and took some kind of advanced training, there would be far less accidents on the road than the current solution of making sure everyone has ABS/ESP. That's fact.

Agree

 

[oska]

I've had a 172 Cup and currently have a 182 FF and prefer it. If I was to take it to the track I'd probably get some coilovers fitted though.
As to the whole ABS *yawn* debate, it pretty much saved me yesterday when a nasty accident happened a few cars in front of me on the motorway.

 

[Shaunbrass]

PMLS at this thread! how many times do we have to go over the same thing over and over and over again.

Jesus its boring now. Its always the same Cup owners will stick up for there car just the same as 182 cup owners will stick up for theres.

The fact is however.......

mine is the bestest and fastest and bestest and i can live without climate and the leather cus its heavy and the bestest of them alllllll!!

there you go ive added my info to this thread same you could of just searched for it and there would be plenty of threads like this.

As for the ABS debate, ive had ABS in previous cars. Must admit it got me out of a few scrapes once or twice but it also put me in the s**t a few times too.

Just drive careful in the wet and you will be ok. ABS doesnt stop accidents from happening however and things suddenly happen if you have ABS or not so why keep arguing about it?

rant over...