172 Cup or 182

[Sir_Dave]

Just out of interest, how did all you lot survive before abs?! tbqfh im amazed you're not all dead having locked up and slid into the nearest hedge at the merest hit of damp ...

Pussies the lot of you :quiet:

 

[Munson]

tbh, ABS is useful everywhere. If you're on a track and you lock your wheels, sure you won't crash but you'll have a nice flat spot on one or both front tyres... Now you need new tyres and you're fun for the day is over. I'd have ABS on any car of mine unless I could extract 95% of the cars potential every lap, every time.

True, but people often wrongly asume that ABS only works when the wheel would otherwise lock. Not the case. Maximum braking force is when the tyre is slipping but still rotating. ABS on the Clio does not allow any slip. Not ideal on track at all IMO. On road, yes ABS is worth having.

 

[Tom@JMS]

tbh, ABS is useful everywhere. If you're on a track and you lock your wheels, sure you won't crash but you'll have a nice flat spot on one or both front tyres... Now you need new tyres and you're fun for the day is over. I'd have ABS on any car of mine unless I could extract 95% of the cars potential every lap, every time.

This is so true; rather have a safety margin for those times when my skill tank runs dry, and to also stop my tyres from being 50 pence pieces after a track day.

 

[ForceIndia]

True, but people often wrongly asume that ABS only works when the wheel would otherwise lock. Not the case. Maximum braking force is when the tyre is slipping but still rotating. ABS on the Clio does not allow any slip. Not ideal on track at all IMO. On road, yes ABS is worth having.

I've seen Fred outbrake a Gallardo running carbon ceramics in my 172 (uprated pads/discs), never found the ABS to be an issue. Remeber, at launch on standard set-up the 172 could outbrake the F360!

 

[Tom@JMS]

I've seen Fred outbrake a Gallardo running carbon ceramics in my 172 (uprated pads/discs), never found the ABS to be an issue. Remeber, at launch on standard set-up the 172 could outbrake the F360!

From the same speed? Just making sure I understand your claim fully

 

[Goodj]

full fat 182 with cup pack, job done.

Although as many have said before, unless you drive on the door handles every mile of the road, will you really notice the difference? aside from the quicker-forming rattles and squeaks?

 

[Munson]

I've seen Fred outbrake a Gallardo running carbon ceramics in my 172 (uprated pads/discs), never found the ABS to be an issue. Remeber, at launch on standard set-up the 172 could outbrake the F360!

Not really bothered about an argument of experiences or figures. I know for a cast iron fact that threshold braking is more effective than ABS at retarding speed. I mean being able to hold the pressure so that the tyre is slipping but rotating. This offers more grip than an ABS system which doesn't allow any slip. I don't pretend I'm an expert driver, far from it. I'm just stating that a non-ABS system potentially offers better dry weather stopping power. I wouldn't not want ABS on the road though, as already stated

 

[ForceIndia]

From the same speed? Just making sure I understand your claim fully

Ask Naith/Christopher etc. IIRC, the general consensus was that somethings broken in Fred's head.

 

[Sir_Dave]

full fat 182 with cup pack, job done.

Although as many have said before, unless you drive on the door handles every mile of the road, will you really notice the difference? aside from the quicker-forming rattles and squeaks?

Yes, ive had both, done big miles (inc. track) & preferred the drive of the cup. Its not difficult to notice the differences, if you cant theres not only something wrong with your driving ability, but your ass, the rides worse for starters lol

 

[ForceIndia]

Not really bothered about an argument of experiences or figures. I know for a cast iron fact that threshold braking is more effective than ABS at retarding speed. I mean being able to hold the pressure so that the tyre is slipping but rotating. This offers more grip than an ABS system which doesn't allow any slip. I don't pretend I'm an expert driver, far from it. I'm just stating that a non-ABS system potentially offers better dry weather stopping power. I wouldn't not want ABS on the road though, as already stated

No doubt, but how many people are capable of that? Suppose my point is that for 99% of people, would it make a difference. If you're getting that much ABS action I'd want the brakes checking over.
IIRC you can deactivate the ABS, not sure if it's something you could do just for track?

 

[Munson]

No doubt, but how many people are capable of that? Suppose my point is that for 99% of people, would it make a difference. If you're getting that much ABS action I'd want the brakes checking over.
IIRC you can deactivate the ABS, not sure if it's something you could do just for track?

Totally agree. ABS is good. On the road. I'm on track this weekend with uprated brakes. If I find that the ABS is taking that last 3% away from me, I may consider deactivating it for the next sesh. Never say never

 

[ForceIndia]

Totally agree. ABS is good. On the road. I'm on track this weekend with uprated brakes. If I find that the ABS is taking that last 3% away from me, I may consider deactivating it for the next sesh. Never say never

i think it was tom that posted a guide for the ABS. where are you at the weekend?

 

[Munson]

Ja. I remember that guide. I'm doing Rockingham International Long. Oh hai, bring along some brakes, this track will f'uck them up

 

[Goodj]

Thanks Sir Dave

I've not driven a cup, but judging by typical French build quality I'm happy to have the more compliant model.

So many people worry about 0-60 shavings and marginal g-loading improvements but, seriously, going to work and back, how often do you notice the extra performance? Conversely, how more easily noticeable is the back pain?

As far as the ABS question goes. I'll take driver aids by the bucket-load. This probably ties in with my comment above......maybe I should just chop the 172 in for a diesel mondeo!

 

[ForceIndia]

Ja. I remember that guide. I'm doing Rockingham International Long. Oh hai, bring along some brakes, this track will f'uck them up

Have fun! Need to get back to Oulton, seriously got the bug for that place!

 

[Munson]

I think all I ever meant to say, was that IMO a 172Cup would be my choice if its intended purpose was to be used on track. Otherwise I'd go for a 182

 

[Munson]

Have fun!

Cheers, dude. I'm hoping so. Brembo Max, Carbone Lorraine, braided lines & Castrol SRF. I'm hoping to lay the smack down on Rockingham this time around, lap after lap until the wheels glow red

 

[Goodj]

I think all I ever meant to say, was that IMO a 172Cup would be my choice if its intended purpose was to be used on track. Otherwise I'd go for a 182

172C with just a drivers' seat!

use the freed-up room to carry a set of slicks!

 

[Tom@JMS]

Cheers, dude. I'm hoping so. Brembo Max, Carbone Lorraine, braided lines & Castrol SRF. I'm hoping to lay the smack down on Rockingham this time around, lap after lap until the wheels glow red

Come down further south fella, that is a sight I would like too see :rasp:

 

[Munson]

LoL, there are sure to be some pics. I'll see if I can get the discs glowing

 

[JayR]

I was in the same situation three and abit years back but it all depends on whether you can deal with the very basic inside, lack of extras like xenons and climate and also whether its a daily driver or not might play a part in a decision!

To be honest because of my situation (hardly ever need use of a car until weekends) i was going for the cheaper offering of a Cup until i found what i had now!

 

[gex23]

I have a 172 Cup as my daily drive, commuting around 150 miles a week in it. I don't miss the lack of options and the seats are still nice and supportive.

You need to take both on a test drive and decide for yourself though.

 

[JayR]

150 miles commute in a week is nothing to be honest mate - try 120 a day, especially in the swealtering summer months and you may be of a different opinion where the likes of climates concerned!

As said i would have gone for the cheaper option of the Cup prior to finding a 182 in Liquid anyway but thats not for everyone as the extras are essential to some i know - you do need a drive of both!

 

[Blarno]

I'm a veteran of old-skool hot hatches: I've owned 2 Astra GTE 8vs, a 205 1.9 GTi and a 309 GTi, so the logical choice for me was the 172 Cup. I've not driven any other type of 172/182 and I'm no master wheelman, so I'd unlikely be able to tell any difference. But, I like less equipment and no driving aids, not because I'm a big-balled b**ch-spanker, but because that's what I'm used to.

Less equipment = less weight, less to go wrong. A lighter car will always feel more nimble, it's simple physics.

Hot hatches should be bog basic, equipment wise. If I want toys, I'll buy a Lexus.

 

[gex23]

150 miles commute in a week is nothing to be honest mate - try 120 a day, especially in the swealtering summer months and you may be of a different opinion where the likes of climates concerned!

As said i would have gone for the cheaper option of the Cup prior to finding a 182 in Liquid anyway but thats not for everyone as the extras are essential to some i know - you do need a drive of both!

Well I had a cupra before I moved to the cup and put 25k on during 12 months, and never used the aircon once, I could happily match that mileage again with the cup

 

[Tav]

Not really bothered about an argument of experiences or figures. I know for a cast iron fact that threshold braking is more effective than ABS at retarding speed. I mean being able to hold the pressure so that the tyre is slipping but rotating. This offers more grip than an ABS system which doesn't allow any slip. I don't pretend I'm an expert driver, far from it. I'm just stating that a non-ABS system potentially offers better dry weather stopping power. I wouldn't not want ABS on the road though, as already stated

But who is actually capable of modulating their brakes to that degree whilst experiencing the force of braking on track from say 120mph down to 50? The non-ABS system may potentially be better...but trying to unlock that small amount of extra is pretty difficult. The difference between slipping and locking must be quite a fine line that's easily crossed.

 

[Munson]

But who is actually capable of modulating their brakes to that degree whilst experiencing the force of braking on track from say 120mph down to 50? The non-ABS system may potentially be better...but trying to unlock that small amount of extra is pretty difficult. The difference between slipping and locking must be quite a fine line that's easily crossed.

Well I'm a n00b, and I managed a massive threshold stop in an Exige, howling tyres but no actual lockup. Perhaps plenty of luck involved. Also of course, the Exige has immense pedal feel which helps. You don't need to be Ayrton Senna IMO to be able to benefit from non-ABS on track. I personally find the ABS in my Clio to be rather too eager to intervene.

Anyway though, let's not turn this into a thread about how good or bad we all are at driving. I'm just stating that IMO a 172Cup is a better choice for the track. Since this car will likely spend its life on the road, a 182 is probably a better all round choice

 

[cat171]

I mentioned to a few on here the other day that I actually quite fancy a 172 cup. I'd have to mod the thing or get a modded up one though (I hate the standard interior & steering wheel etc) so would have to have some buckets & a new wheel. Other than that i'd sort the suspension (they always look so high standard) and i'd do a few engine mods for the small gains you can get, plus upgrade the brakes.
Lack of ABS doesn't bother me at all really.

 

[Munson]

I mentioned to a few on here the other day that I actually quite fancy a 172 cup. I'd have to mod the thing or get a modded up one though (I hate the standard interior & steering wheel etc) so would have to have some buckets & a new wheel. Other than that i'd sort the suspension (they always look so high standard) and i'd do a few engine mods for the small gains you can get, plus upgrade the brakes.
Lack of ABS doesn't bother me at all really.

Could be a weapon, dude. Uprated brakes, suspension & steering wheel. Buckets. Stripped. Done.

 

[cat171]

Could be a weapon, dude. Uprated brakes, suspension & steering wheel. Buckets. Stripped. Done.

For sure, i've fancied getting one for a while now. Now they have come down so much the appeal of a toy to mess about with is appealing to me a lot more

 

[the grumpy one]

lol @ you guys turnin my thread into an ABS discussion!!!!!

tbh, i see what you guys are saying but, im going to use my car for weekend toying about with friends & maybe the odd track day when it gets organised!

i use my van in the week, free insurance & free diesal so im happy!

im not to fussed about the lack of goodies in the cup, the only issue i had was the lack of abs. but over than that, i couldnt care less about air con, as ive never had it in my previous cars...just sweat it out like real men...carry some anti persperaent!

other than going to a showroom to test drive a 182ff...i have the choice of my friends 182 - Gez as he is know on the forum, but this is a mod'd on & i would need to feel a standard one to make my mind up because it would be a bias opinion, nether the less...Gez, if you want to let me drive it...you got my phone number home boy! lol

i may start a topic regaurding 172cup brakes & methods to stop locking up...as it has happened to me in the cup, but saying that...im not used to the cup, im used to my gt being able to stop with abs!

once again, thanks for all your comments & info...NOTES TAKEN!!!