172 to 'Cup Pack' suspension conversion

[Jakey92]

Hi All

Just wondering what are the exact components I would need for the 182 'cup pack' suspension set up?

I have told been that the track is the same. So would I just need the wishbones and hubs? (not including the struts of course).
To my knowledge, the Anti-Roll Bar bushes are the same so I presume the bar itself is the same length as well.

Also how much extra width would I actually get?

 

[daveski]

I wouldn't bother.

Get 172 cup shocks and wishbones, not 182 Cup Pack

 

[Joe#]

I wouldn't bother.

Get 172 cup shocks and wishbones, not 182 Cup Pack

This. It's not worth the hassle of changing the hubs over.

 

[Jakey92]

I wouldn't bother.

Get 172 cup shocks and wishbones, not 182 Cup Pack

I understand that the cups use a different ball joint, so what is the difference between the two wishbones?

 

[Jakey92]

This. It's not worth the hassle of changing the hubs over.

OKay, would it be better to get 172 Cup shocks then with 182 Cup springs?

 

[l33th3tr33]

OKay, would it be better to get 172 Cup shocks then with 182 Cup springs?

Just get 172 cup springs, they are after all.... Cup springs. Why not just get a 182 cup?

 

[Joe#]

OKay, would it be better to get 172 Cup shocks then with 182 Cup springs?

I doubt you'd notice the difference to be honest with you. Are you not tempted by a set of Eibach sportline or Cooksport springs?

 

[Martin_172]

172's after a certain year use the same "cup spec" extra castor bottom arms, balljoints are the same, my 2002 52 plate has them, I had an 02 that didn't.

all you need is the front hubs with 182 cup bolt spacing for the dampers, and although not needed you would want the extra castor "cup spec" lower arms if you don't have them.


personally though ive just gone for 172 cup front dampers, 182 cup rears handles awesome with eibach sportline springs

 

[Jakey92]

Just get 172 cup springs, they are after all.... Cup springs. Why not just get a 182 cup?

I was unsure that the springs are the same spec. In my eyes asking about which springs to use just doesn't justify buying a different car

I doubt you'd notice the difference to be honest with you. Are you not tempted by a set of Eibach sportline or Cooksport springs?

They aren't what I'm looking for, just asking about the OEM at the minute

172's after a certain year use the same "cup spec" extra castor bottom arms, balljoints are the same, my 2002 52 plate has them, I had an 02 that didn't

Do you happen to have a picture so I could tell the difference? I remember seeing a thread about this matter but I haven't managed to find it as of yet

personally though ive just gone for 172 cup front dampers, 182 cup rears handles awesome with eibach sportline springs

Sounds like a good set up! So are rear dampers of the 182 cups better than the 172 cup units?

 

[Jakey92]

Found it! I looked through my old posts. Turn out I will have the extra castor so they won't need changing (http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?680723-Wishbones/page3&highlight=extra+castor)

 

[Bruce-BHPerformance]

So what exactly is the suspension differences between a 182, 182 cup and 182 cup packed? as between me and my mate we have all 3!

 

[MG cup]

Going to waffle on here.

182 cups have different bolt spacing (60mm iirc) on the hub to strut fixing, everything else shares the same size( iirc 54mm)

All 172 cups came with the extra caster wishbones, some of the later model 1*2's came with them also but its a lottery.

Cup front shocks are cup shocks irrelevant if they're 172 or 182 with the only difference being bolt spacing, rear shocks are supposed to all be the same despite all the different part numbers. Springs are also 15% stiffer and lower on cups according to Renault sales bumph.

Then there's different in wheel bearing sizes between 172 hubs and 182 hubs and also different ABS reluctor rings and triggering patterns.

182 cup has the thickest ARB too supposedly by 1mm iirc.

172 cups have wider drilled subframes, longest shafts and inner tie rods on any 1*2 model.

182's have two piece shafts on the O/S.

There is two types of steering rack TRW/SMI and again are supposedly the same turn to turn with the only difference being the inner tie rod thread size.

There is two manufactures of callipers too throughout the evolution lucas/ and I forgot the other. Both the same in pad design etc, the seals are different though.

Then there's the different thickness stub axles on the rear beam, this I'm not sure what has what tbh.

Thats all the differences in actual suspension geometry that I have noticed or had confirmed, some cars have more caster than others and my only explanation is changes to the strut tops but no definitive info on that. Then there's the wheel offsets which affect track widths between models.

I'm sure there are other small nuances in there but I haven't noticed them, happy to be corrected on any of these or others added.

 

[Bruce-BHPerformance]

Thanks but still not sure.
Is a 182 with cup pack going to have exactly the same setup as a 182 cup?
Can you visually tell if the wishbones are different?
Is there any negative camber on cup rear beam?

 

[MG cup]

Yes, yes and yes.

The differences between the cup and cup packed relates to the interior spec afaik and also the splitter as there were two cup add ons available separately afaik, I don't tend to listen to the interior styling bits as it doesn't interest me much tbh.

 

[Bruce-BHPerformance]

Reword the question. Is the cup rear camber different to the non cup? And what degree is it?

 

[MG cup]

There like cheese the rear beams so all the printouts I have seen differ all the time, most 172 cups I have seen have more than 172's, I have noticed that as I have an interest in them.

I'm pretty sure the 182's (not sure if cup etc) have the thickest stub axle so widest track fundamentally before wheels go on, dont quote me on that but they definitely differ between models.

Your rear camber will be circa 1.5

 

[Martin_172]

Can you visually tell if the wishbones are different?

if you look at where the outer bolt is on the balljoint you will see its off centred, that shows the extra castor ones. I searched for 10 minutes on google/ebay looking for a picture of a non extra castor one and couldn't find any but basically the outer bolt is centred rather than offset

 

[Bruce-BHPerformance]

Just measured both my 182s bolt spacings and they are both 60mm so that means they are cup packed yes????

 

[Joe#]

Just measured both my 182s bolt spacings and they are both 60mm so that means they are cup packed yes????

That's correct

 

[Bruce-BHPerformance]

Cool.
Does it mean they have the extra caster too?

 

[Martin_172]

all 182s have extra castor doesn't matter if its a cup, cup pack, non cup, trophy etc etc

 

[Dan@SJM]

I must admit, in my experience the stub axles are all the same.

 

[MG cup]

Ian speedy has some pics in his progress thread from a good while back, he wrecked one on a rally and bought another. It turned out it was different to the other side, it was the squarish bit at the back where people are bolting spacers that was thicker/thinner. Other than that it was identical.

Your best placed to check them though with all the different cars you'll see.

 

[Dan@SJM]

Ah sorry my misunderstanding, when you said stub axle was thicker I thought you meant the diameter that the bearing slides over.

 

[Russ Rallye]

Do any of the front hubs, be it 182/182 Cup give a wider track just by swapping the hubs? Only reason i ask is if Mark/James group buy goes through for the roll centre kit i'd need to have some hubs modified anyway and with that kit increasing the track by 5mm i thought that if the 182 hubs increased the track too i could do away with my front spacers i currently run.
Russ

 

[Jakey92]

Do any of the front hubs, be it 182/182 Cup give a wider track just by swapping the hubs? Only reason i ask is if Mark/James group buy goes through for the roll centre kit i'd need to have some hubs modified anyway and with that kit increasing the track by 5mm i thought that if the 182 hubs increased the track too i could do away with my front spacers i currently run.
Russ

I believe the 182 cup ones do give you slightly extra but you'd need new struts for the difference in bolt spacing

 

[Jakey92]

182 cup has the thickest ARB too supposedly by 1mm iirc.

Clio Ph1 2.0 16v RS-172: Outer mount - 22mm, Inner mount - 25mm
Clio Ph2 2.0 16v RS-172: Outer mount - 23mm, Inner mount - 25mm
Clio Ph2 2.0 16v RS-182: Outer mount - 22mm, Inner mount - 25mm
Clio 2.0 16v RS (172 & 182) Cup / Cup pack models: Outer mount - 23mm, Inner mount - 25mm

Just FYI, quote from a different thread