172 turns over for 3 seconds and dies......... no power at fuel pump or coil pack

[Anonymous]

Now this is the problem.....Mrs was driving to work, gets there does her day in the office, goes to leave work and the 172 wont start!
If I turn hesitate with the ignition and turn the key to position 2 everything works all ok lights cd player etc. Turn the key to start nothing
The fuel pump is not priming.


However if I turn the key over quickly it will turn over for about 2 to 3 seconds and just stop cranking over but still without no fuel pump priming and no power to coil pack!

I have tried swapping the relays about, checked all earths, have replaced the ecu and uch with another known good set and still the problem persists!

I have bridged the relay for the fuel pump and coil with a bit of cable and 2 spade connectors and the fuel pump primes and I have power to the coil!!
Help this is doing my head in and im so close to just burning it!

 

[MartinR]

I had the same. I removed the relays in the fuse box in the engine bay. Cleaned and scraped the connections as some where green.

Wd40 then refit. Has not come back since.

 

[Anonymous]

Yeah we also tried that mate, and using 2 jump leads to create extra earth points in case there was an earthing problem!

Its only worth just over a grand so may just flog it as spares or repairs but it would be a shame as its only recently (750 miles ago) had a brand new dephaser, all belts, new head gasket, ported inlets, 182 exhaust manifold and decat etc but its now been off the road 3 months with this problem and still no further forward!

Had a auto electrician out who charged £150 for his time and couldnt even find the fault! He reckoned there was power getting to the ECU but not coming out of it and suggested replacing the ECU! So another £150 later on a new ECU, UCH and key and still the same problem!

 

[182tev]

What about some sort of fuel cut off ? like the red button on 106 gti's ?

 

[Anonymous]

Nice idea pal but PH2's dont have the inertia switch............. Wish it was that simple!
Just spoke to an auto electrician and he is sure its the immobiliser........... but surely changing the ECU, UCH and key rules out immobiliser fault?!

Is it worth me buying a complete wiring loom with fuse with fuse and relay board?! Surely then theres nothing left that it can be?!

 

[GTR Cook]

Corroded power wire to the ECU? You said there is power getting to the ECU, is it the correct current though (i think thats correct)?

I had this and took ages to find it.

 

[RoryW]

Did he change the key code pick up ring on the barrel? I had exactly this issue when mine started to fail

 

[MG cup]

Try speaking to Mick at MWM, he is up to speed with the common wiring problems.

 

[Anonymous]

Right just been out to have another play................. please bare in mind the battery is now flat so voltages are low! Battery is currently at 9v ish
Yes I replaced the transponder ring when I bought the replacement ecu/uch etc
Car locks and unlocks fine by the fob, and immobiliser flashes every one second ish
Put the key in and turn the ignition 2 clicks................immobiliser light goes solid, TB clicks and hums and relays behind the dash click............. third turn and nothing at all.
Repeat the process but quickly as you would normally and you can hear the starter motor click and try to turn the engine over but fails........due to flat battery!

However if I wrap tinfoil around the key and retry the above the immobiliser light flashes like crazy and nothing happens on the 3rd turn of the ignition! This tells me the key, transponder and immobiliser are all in sync and working as they should!

So I decided to check out the relays again........................
with ignition on the yellow wire that goes to the appropriate relay gets power................ but the violet one does not (this comes from ECU pin 9).................. also the 2 thick white wires do not get power and these are what control the fuel pump and ignition coil!! bridge the thick red and 2 whites and I get power to coil and fuel pump primes up as it should!!

Pin 30 to the ECU is currently getting 8.3v which is the + in............
Pin 9 (violet wire) is currently getting nothing at the relay end with ignition on!

With relay bridged the coil is getting 8.2ish volts

Danny@519 is closer to me and I have emailed him to see what he suggests but Mick will be next to contact if I cannot get this sorted!

Does anyone have a full loom, ecu, uch, transponder ring and key I can test on my car?! may save me shelling out a load more needless cash! If it fix's it ill happily buy them from you!

 

[Anonymous]

Also I have just been out and checked and I have continuity between both the canbus white and purple twisted pair between the ecu main plug and the white connector in the engine bay fuse box.............. as suggested in another thread

 

[DannyR]

It won't start with the battery being s**t.

 

[Anonymous]

I know and its on charge............ but should still turn over even if sluggish and that wouldn't stop the coil or fuel pump from getting a live!
Battery is only dead today............. was fully charged yesterday and showing 12+ volts and was doing the same as mentioned in OP

 

[Anonymous]

I have contiuity on both canbus wire from the ECU plug to the brown UCH block!

 

[MG cup]

I take it you know the starter is in good condition and not bound up, checked the signal wire to the solenoid and gave the starter a tap while trying to turn it over?

 

[DannyR]

My battery was fine and did the same thing. New battery needed, bet ya

 

[Anonymous]

Starter seems to be fine as it turns the engine over no problem with a full battery........... however I do have a spare lying around so could try that!I took the battery off of another car Danny while its original one was on charge and still did exactly the same!
I have a 12v booster pack which I also had attached and still no go im afraid so think that would rule out the new battery idea........ would you agree?!
If the mrs allows ill take the battery off the Cayman tomorrow as that looks brand new....... but don't want to risk killing that battery as well!

 

[Anonymous]

Well WESTS in Cambridge have had the car and cannot find the fault! They suspect a break in the wiring loom somewhere but reckon it could take 2hrs+ to find it and they do not even guarantee finding it within that time but will happily still charge £85 per hour...................... Next up is a new loom and if that doesnt sort it she will be broken and scrapped

 

[Shaunkealaher]

I have the exact same problem with mine after changing the engine

 

[Anonymous]

Have you checked all of your earth straps mate?! If so then make sure all of your relays are working!

 

[Stephenx77]

Mine does the exact same thing if you deisconnect the battery and reset the ECU. I found that if you wait a few minutes and turn the ignition key from 0 to 2 and back to 0 a few times it fires up no problem and doesn't re-occur until you reset the ECU again.

 

[Shaunkealaher]

How do you reset the ecu ? I have checked all earth straps and all relays are fine engine was running before i took it out of the donor car

 

[len_beach]

Mine did something similar. I plugged a cheap code reader in, cleared the codes and it fired up. Never got to the bottom of it.

 

[Stephenx77]

You reset the ECU by unplugging the battery or ECU fuse for about half an hour. Can't remember which fuse, but it's one of the ones in the engine bay.

 

[Shaunkealaher]

Fuel pump is priming now and engine turns over fine but have no power going to the coil pack is there any way I can bridge it to get pow.er to it so it will start ?

 

[MicKPM]

This is going to be such a simple one to fix but you are going to need CLIP I'm afraid.

You have replaced the UCH which is configured differently to your vehicles actual config. Because of this the UCH is looking for something over CAN which isn't there so it is giving the solid light and is inhibiting the vehicle starting.

Network setup and adaption required.

Mick

 

[Shaunkealaher]

I havent got the solid red light immob goes out as it should what do you mean by a clip ?

 

[MicKPM]

Never mind then I misread someones reply

 

[Shaunkealaher]

Have you any idea as to what my problem could be as im at a dead end with it now been trying to solve the problem for 3 weeks

 

[Anonymous]

I've still not sorted this out and ended up sticking the 172 in storage and buying another motor!

looking to get the Clio out again this weekend and give it one last go at fixing the problem!

i will be buying a new loom for sure just to rule out whether it is or isn't a break in any of the wires!

any other suggestions?!

 

[Anonymous]

Have decided its going up for sale....................... what would you say its worth as a non runner?! £750/£800??!!

 

[Sean6545]

Where are you based?

 

[Anonymous]

Just outside of Cambridge mate

 

[ashley_t]

Mine did exactly the same. Wire from the fuel relay iirc and the ecu broke down. Spliced in a new one between the ecu plug and the relay and it was fine

 

[Anonymous]

well ive just bought a 05 182 so this will be going this week or next whether its working or not as i need the space as its a bit crowded around here at the moment! Not going to spend anymore money on it so will just be going on ebay as spares or repairs

 

[Anonymous]

Heres a little vid of the problem child............

 

[MicKPM]

Shame it never came in, I'm confident I can fix this in a couple of hours tops

 

[Anonymous]

Shame it never came in, I'm confident I can fix this in a couple of hours tops

The engine will live on in the 182 Mick and there may still be hope for the 172 becoming a runner eventually!

would you say it's wiring loom related or engine/sensor as a gut feeling Mick?!

tbh, if you wasn't 2hrs each way and what with needing to hire a trailer it would of came to you!

However it's had the RAC, Renault WEST's in Cambridge have had it on CLIP and 2hrs diagnostics @ £90 per hour, and then a professional auto electrician had it for 2 hrs! So, so far it stands around £500 with new ECU/UCH and key and now a loom and still no further forward!

non running 182 with cam belt failure is costing £750 on spaces or repair!

so I'm hoping this engine which is only on 88k has only recently had cam belt and kit, dephaser pulley, head gasket, water pump, starter motor all replaced 500 miles ago will go straight into the 182 once mated to the 182 box and with the 182 loom I'm hoping it will fire up 1st time! And then chuck the cam belt failed engine in 172 and sell as a non runner........What you reckon?! Good plan?!

 

[MicKPM]

I can't comment without seeing the test results of a CAN test but i'm so confident that I can fix this that IF you bought it in and I can't fix it, i'd pay the transportation costs for you.

I love the term "Professional" as it covers all multitudes of sin. I'm a professional misserable fucker but I have no paperwork to back that up. I do however have paperwork stating qualifications in Advanced diagnostic techniques, CAN Infrastructure, Bosch EDC, Hybrid technology and Mechanical Engineering.

 

[Diagro]

I can't comment without seeing the test results of a CAN test but i'm so confident that I can fix this that IF you bought it in and I can't fix it, i'd pay the transportation costs for you.

I love the term "Professional" as it covers all multitudes of sin. I'm a professional misserable fucker but I have no paperwork to back that up. I do however have paperwork stating qualifications in Advanced diagnostic techniques, CAN Infrastructure, Bosch EDC, Hybrid technology and Mechanical Engineering.

Now that's service for you :"D

 

[Anonymous]

If you're that confident Mick you're welcome to buy it cheap and fix it up yourself............. you'd need to arrange collection!
inbox me if you're interested!
however it will have bent valves and the head will likely be fubar'd as well as still having this starting issue, but the price will reflect this!

ive spent (read as wasted) days, almost weeks trying to sort it, thrown good money at it and it's not playing ball! I refuse to waste anymore of my time on a car that's not going to even be worth the money that's been spent on it recently!