182 cup pack hubs vs 172 hubs.

[Chip-mk1]

Continuing my myth busting theme of late...

Today Mosley came round mine to swap over 182 cup pack hubs for a spare set of 172 ones I had as he bought some 54mm shocks.

there is not any additional track width in the hubs like people on here claim there is. I measured with a set of digital calipers and they are exactly the same as normal ph1 and ph2 ones.

the steering arms are located differently, the cup packed 182 ones locate the track rod further out, but the road wheel is in exactly the same position relative to the bottom ball joint.

 

[Paul172sport]

Myth busting chip again.

Carefull you end up with a price on your head lol.

Does make you wonder about how significant any differences are

 

[Russ_16v]

I thought it was only the 172 cup ones that were different? I thought the rest of the range were the same?

 

[Nick_Leeds]

Continuing my myth busting theme of late...

the steering arms are located differently, the cup packed 182 ones locate the track rod further out, but the road wheel is in exactly the same position relative to the bottom ball joint.

Chip,

Please excuse my lack of knowledge, what is the advantage then with cup packed suspension and the different location on the track rod?

Nick

 

[Chip-mk1]

It will change the Ackerman angles and scrub radius, but wether it soon so is a benefit or not I couldn't tell you as I don't have enough data for that.
I am very curious as to why Renault did it.
I assume the hubs are actually from a Laguna or scenic or something as it would be too dear to cast them like that just for a small number of cup packed 182 clios.

The steering arm location is quite dramatically moved, must be about 8-10mm judging by how much toe in the 182 ended up with when we fitted the 172 hubs.

 

[Fred@BTM]

why are the driveshafts longer then eh?

 

[Ralphizzle]

^^^Good call Fred!

 

[Chip-mk1]

why are the driveshafts longer then eh?

Than what?

than phase 1? Cause the subframe sits the arms further out.

The one we swapped from 182 cup hubs to 172 hubs didn't bottom the shafts out even under compression.

 

[ripp]

I remember renault said something about the track width on 182 cup suspension, if the hubs are the same and the wheels are still ET45 (on a 182 cup or cup pack) then the cup 182 suspension has the same track as a normal 182?

 

[Chip-mk1]

The only place I have found track differences is in the wheel offset between the models and in the spacing of the lower arm mounting points on the subframe.

The hubs themselves dont appear to have any effect at all though, based on looking at:
ph1 172
ph2 172
ph2 172 cup
ph2 182
ph2 182 cup

They all have exactly the same spacing in the hub, its only the steering arm angle and the bolt spacing for the shocks that seems to vary.

 

[Cup_Phil]

Exactly the same as what I said when I was looking at putting 182 hubs onto my cup.
They run a bigger bearing in them too over the 172 items which certainly looks more robust but they definitely don't add any extra width.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Yes they do run a bigger bearing, although this thread was only originally meant to be about the geometry thats still a potentially useful advantage to the 182 hubs so worth a mention as well

 

[MG cup]

Seem logical Chip and just like I have always said, to cast a different hub for every variant just doesn't make sense where as adjusting 4 drilled holes in sheet metal from a 172 to a 172 cup is where all the differences come from. I will add that cup racer (I.e laguna hubs) have massively different steering arms on the hubs to compared to a 172 cup hub with the hubs still looking essentially the same in geometry.

Exactly the same as what I said when I was looking at putting 182 hubs onto my cup.
They run a bigger bearing in them too over the 172 items which certainly looks more robust but they definitely don't add any extra width.

You also said there was no different shafts or inner track rods as I have just re read everything

 

[Cup_Phil]

I said the 172 cup shafts would fit into 182 hubs - which they do and that the track rods would fit too - which they also do, you just need to wind them in but there's room to do that.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Yeah the shafts dont care AT ALL which hubs you are on as like I said there is no difference at all width wise at the hubs.

So while a set of cup shafts wont fit a ph1 you could happily swap the hubs on them as its the subframe holes that make the shafts the wrong length nothing at all to do with the hubs.

 

[MG cup]

You actually said there was no difference in shafts and inner rods Phil as I have previously shown you data sheets from eBay and gave you the part numbers for Firstline inners but I'm not going to split hairs, the hubs can be swapped as long as they suit your struts which is what is nice to know.

 

[danpullen]

This is a bit off topic but would any of this come into why i couldnt fit the 172 coilovers onto my 182 ff.
i took it to a garage and they 'carbon zipped' the coilies to
fit but they scrub if i go low really bad and the suspension seems like
it moves when you turn slowly on full lock. Could be the topmounts i guessed
but you guys seem to know a hell of alot so
your help could be appreciated. Thanks

 

[Dan@SJM]

No, the spacing is different on the bolt holes. Basically, you bought the wrong coilovers.

 

[LiamR172]

Buuuump.

172 cup hubs different to a standard 172 hub yes?

 

[flebay]

I thought chip had come back from the dead, thread revival.

 

[Kyle 86]

Buuuump.

172 cup hubs different to a standard 172 hub yes?

No they are the same

 

[LiamR172]

Thanks but I've read differently on here so I'm still not sure? Can anyone actually confirm this and maybe show me where I can buy a hub online? cant seem to find any!

 

[green]

Thanks but I've read differently on here so I'm still not sure? Can anyone actually confirm this and maybe show me where I can buy a hub online? cant seem to find any!

It's only the coilover bottom bolt holes that are different.
I didn't realize that the 182 cup hubs have different spacings for the track rod ends.

 

[NorthloopCup]

It's only the coilover bottom bolt holes that are different.
I didn't realize that the 182 cup hubs have different spacings for the track rod ends.

Yeah they gain the larger wheel bearing and also the improved Ackerman angle that comes from different steering arms on the hub itself.