182 FF Cup Pack 7 years on

[Ben280]

Hi all, I’m not new to the forum, but this is my first post. Firstly I’m not here to start an argument or get into a dick swinging contest, I simply want to ask a question and I’ll tell you about my Clio as I met a guy with a track only Clio that said revved to 9.5 on carbs had cams and ran 250!!!!! And that was basically all he’d done, oh and a remapp and exhaust etc.
My mechanic called bullshit, he specializes in Peugeot Subaru and Renault and used to build the engines for Peugeot rally team.
Anyway back to mine mine is a 182 that when purchased the engine had to be immediately rebuilt as it had low compression. So my first question was can u get it to 200 brake. He wasn’t sure but challenge accepted. We rebuilt engine put full miltek on it induction kit and then it was up to him to try to break the 200 mark on the dyno.
At the same time this was going on the garage I’d bought the car from and actually had to give me 500 back towards the rebuild sent a trophy up from Leeds to Newcastle to have some major work done
So knowing that the map on a trophy is a more aggressive map with a higher redline, so we took the map from that and put it on my car to use as a starting point. We remapped the Trophy map and In the end he got 203.6 from a non cammed engine. The reason I even wrote this post is to ask if anyone else has a non cammed engine that has broken the 200 mark. Like I said a beginning of post I’m not here to start a dick swinging contest and don’t want to start any arguments or anything like that
I’m simply just interested to find out.
I had 205s back in the day and I know from experience that you could get in a 1.6 205 that seemed to have magical powers and seem way quicker than other 1.6s and just as quick as 1.9s
I asked my now good friend/mechanic about putting cams in back when this all started and he said yes we can put power gain over cost involved in his eyes wasn’t really worth it unless I was going to regularly track the car and it’s never been on a track even though I did have plans to do that but in the end never happened.
So it’s just a simple question query as to if anyone else has as 200+ 182 172 with basic mods? I can attach the dyno sheet but the highest print out I have says 202 as I somehow lost the most important one with the final figure on it

 

[Louis]

Hi all, I’m not new to the forum, but this is my first post. Firstly I’m not here to start an argument or get into a dick swinging contest, I simply want to ask a question and I’ll tell you about my Clio as I met a guy with a track only Clio that said revved to 9.5 on carbs had cams and ran 250!!!!! And that was basically all he’d done, oh and a remapp and exhaust etc.
My mechanic called bullshit, he specializes in Peugeot Subaru and Renault and used to build the engines for Peugeot rally team.
Anyway back to mine mine is a 182 that when purchased the engine had to be immediately rebuilt as it had low compression. So my first question was can u get it to 200 brake. He wasn’t sure but challenge accepted. We rebuilt engine put full miltek on it induction kit and then it was up to him to try to break the 200 mark on the dyno.
At the same time this was going on the garage I’d bought the car from and actually had to give me 500 back towards the rebuild sent a trophy up from Leeds to Newcastle to have some major work done
So knowing that the map on a trophy is a more aggressive map with a higher redline, so we took the map from that and put it on my car to use as a starting point. We remapped the Trophy map and In the end he got 203.6 from a non cammed engine. The reason I even wrote this post is to ask if anyone else has a non cammed engine that has broken the 200 mark. Like I said a beginning of post I’m not here to start a dick swinging contest and don’t want to start any arguments or anything like that
I’m simply just interested to find out.
I had 205s back in the day and I know from experience that you could get in a 1.6 205 that seemed to have magical powers and seem way quicker than other 1.6s and just as quick as 1.9s
I asked my now good friend/mechanic about putting cams in back when this all started and he said yes we can put power gain over cost involved in his eyes wasn’t really worth it unless I was going to regularly track the car and it’s never been on a track even though I did have plans to do that but in the end never happened.
So it’s just a simple question query as to if anyone else has as 200+ 182 172 with basic mods? I can attach the dyno sheet but the highest print out I have says 202 as I somehow lost the most important one with the final figure on it

What was the initial run bhp on the same dyno?

 

[Ben280]

What was the initial run bhp on the same dyno?

150. That’s why engine was rebuilt. I still have the original results of the cylinder leak down test somewhere in my collection of paperwork I think. Why you ask, you think the dyno isn’t calibrated or something? I have to go out right now but I can post all the dyno read outs later.
I know what you mean by starting point, as in after rebuild and tbh I’ve no clue what it was I’ll have to look. I’ll dig them out later this afternoon when I’m back from physio and put them up so u can see . I think I’ve several pages of read outs

 

[Louis]

150. That’s why engine was rebuilt. I still have the original results of the cylinder leak down test somewhere in my collection of paperwork I think. Why you ask, you think the dyno isn’t calibrated or something? I have to go out right now but I can post all the dyno read outs later.
I know what you mean by starting point, as in after rebuild and tbh I’ve no clue what it was I’ll have to look. I’ll dig them out later this afternoon when I’m back from physio and put them up so u can see . I think I’ve several pages of read outs

Yeah, you need a comparison otherwise the numbers are meaningless.

Post the AFR graphs too.

 

[Ben280]

Ok here’s how it started when I first got the car, I’m gonna post what I have and try to get them in right order. As I haven’t posted on here before I’m not sure how to post multiple photos at once. Anyway this was initial leak down test before anything was done. The car hadn’t been cared for when you go through the first lot of mot history

 

[Ben280]

 

[Ben280]

 

[Ben280]

 

[Ben280]

This is the final map, if you look at the dates u can see it was done over a few months from the time I bought it so was on and off the dyno several times.
This is all I have paperwork wise. I do know a 172 cup went on and he managed to get 198 out of it.
I’m not trying to get into a competition here as I remember when I had my 205 1.6 I had a company that tuned cars and dealed with Superchip. When they did my 205 I got an xtra 15bhp taking it to 130 which was the same as a standard 1.9 and mine only had a K&N Induction Kit but it would beat a standard 1.9 after the tune because it had a slightly different box in than the 1.9 did. I genuinely only posted this out of interest

 

[Ben280]

 

[Darren S]

In all fairness, those figures look a tad high especially the torque, given that I had the following work done on mine:-

• Complete strip down of the engine
• 197 pistons
• Catcam 438s cams
• Supertech valves
• Remap at Engine Dynamics - including a specific 98RON map

From that, I was a midge's dick away from 200 - at 199.2bhp and 164lb/ft of torque. It could be that you just have a really good base engine, despite the initial readings and that having it fettled has released a lot of trapped power. I'm just a bit sceptical of the torque knocking on the door of 178lb/ft with no major internal mods on an N/A engine though.

 

[Sir_Dave]

Looking at the graphs, your "150-160bhp" is at the wheels, they are then using a 25bhp transmission loss to calculate flywheel figures.
So before the work, when it was "knackered" it had 175-185bhp at the fly, which is probably 25-35bhp to high, depending on how f*cked it was.
You're now at "202bhp" at the fly, which is probably the same 25-35bhp too high.

The map on the Trophy is also the same as the normal 182.

I'd suggest putting it on an independent "dyno dynamics" rolling road to see what its running, if healthy, with those mods, id say 175-180bhp

 

[Brigsy]

Run it on a dyno dynamics or superflow dyno. Thats what most are mapped on by the top tuners in the uk, so will give a comparison. Ive seen/had some wildly different figures off other brand dynos on other cars compared to the above two.

Also trophy is the same map as any other 172/182, if rev limiter was raised it was previously mapped.

End of the day though, if your happy with the power and it drives well, the peak figures are purely a number on the day of tuning. Im more concerned about overall drivability these days, part throttle mapping done correctly etc, makes a massive difference on the road.

 

[Ben280]

Run it on a dyno dynamics or superflow dyno. Thats what most are mapped on by the top tuners in the uk, so will give a comparison. Ive seen/had some wildly different figures off other brand dynos on other cars compared to the above two.

Also trophy is the same map as any other 172/182, if rev limiter was raised it was previously mapped.

End of the day though, if your happy with the power and it drives well, the peak figures are purely a number on the day of tuning. Im more concerned about overall drivability these days, part throttle mapping done correctly etc, makes a massive difference on the road.

My bad here, all I meant by more aggressive trophy map is that the red line is slightly higher not that it’s a wildly different map
So apologies for not explaining correctly.
I was with my friend/mechanic today getting an mot on one of my other cars, I spent the day with him while he worked and I showed him this thread,(is that what it’s called?) he told me that his dyno is bang on. I asked him further about building Rally cars and he reminded me that he used to build MI16 engines for the Pug team,which also involved a dyno getting big power numbers and this is how the tuning side of things started and this was before he had his own garage. He’s had his own place now for 19, so he’s been doing this for nigh on 25 years which is, I’m taking a guess here but longer than most and you can’t say that every map that he’s done has given an over powered read out or finished map, thatd be impossible. do stand by my figures and I’m not going to go spend money on getting another company to dyno the car , that just seems a waste of money. Every Saturday he used to open up and do dyno days where people could just show up and have some runs and a print out of the power there cars we’re putting out.
He also told me that mine is correct and that the next one down from mine was the 172cup at 196, but he’s done quite a few where he’s got to the mid 190s.
I’ve seen him repair maps from other companies that charge a fortune and I’ve seen him jailbreak an Alkatek ECU from an Impreza that was done by Simon Roe(RIP) of Jolly green monster and he installed lock codes I believe on them so u couldn’t read the base map. He’s a very talented guy and like I said at the very beginning, I didn’t set out to cause arguments or create a dick swinging contest, I was only wondering IF ANYONE ELSE had managed to do that and what people thought of the claim that a guy I met with a track car on carbs, cams exhaust, remapp (possibly E85) said it reved to 9.5 or 10.5 and was 250 bhp
Point is I’m happy with my car and how quick it is.

 

[Mr Squashie]

My bad here, all I meant by more aggressive trophy map is that the red line is slightly higher not that it’s a wildly different map
So apologies for not explaining correctly.
I was with my friend/mechanic today getting an mot on one of my other cars, I spent the day with him while he worked and I showed him this thread,(is that what it’s called?) he told me that his dyno is bang on. I asked him further about building Rally cars and he reminded me that he used to build MI16 engines for the Pug team,which also involved a dyno getting big power numbers and this is how the tuning side of things started and this was before he had his own garage. He’s had his own place now for 19, so he’s been doing this for nigh on 25 years which is, I’m taking a guess here but longer than most and you can’t say that every map that he’s done has given an over powered read out or finished map, thatd be impossible. do stand by my figures and I’m not going to go spend money on getting another company to dyno the car , that just seems a waste of money. Every Saturday he used to open up and do dyno days where people could just show up and have some runs and a print out of the power there cars we’re putting out.
He also told me that mine is correct and that the next one down from mine was the 172cup at 196, but he’s done quite a few where he’s got to the mid 190s.
I’ve seen him repair maps from other companies that charge a fortune and I’ve seen him jailbreak an Alkatek ECU from an Impreza that was done by Simon Roe(RIP) of Jolly green monster and he installed lock codes I believe on them so u couldn’t read the base map. He’s a very talented guy and like I said at the very beginning, I didn’t set out to cause arguments or create a dick swinging contest, I was only wondering IF ANYONE ELSE had managed to do that and what people thought of the claim that a guy I met with a track car on carbs, cams exhaust, remapp (possibly E85) said it reved to 9.5 or 10.5 and was 250 bhp
Point is I’m happy with my car and how quick it is.

 

[Louis]

My bad here, all I meant by more aggressive trophy map is that the red line is slightly higher not that it’s a wildly different map
So apologies for not explaining correctly.
I was with my friend/mechanic today getting an mot on one of my other cars, I spent the day with him while he worked and I showed him this thread,(is that what it’s called?) he told me that his dyno is bang on. I asked him further about building Rally cars and he reminded me that he used to build MI16 engines for the Pug team,which also involved a dyno getting big power numbers and this is how the tuning side of things started and this was before he had his own garage. He’s had his own place now for 19, so he’s been doing this for nigh on 25 years which is, I’m taking a guess here but longer than most and you can’t say that every map that he’s done has given an over powered read out or finished map, thatd be impossible. do stand by my figures and I’m not going to go spend money on getting another company to dyno the car , that just seems a waste of money. Every Saturday he used to open up and do dyno days where people could just show up and have some runs and a print out of the power there cars we’re putting out.
He also told me that mine is correct and that the next one down from mine was the 172cup at 196, but he’s done quite a few where he’s got to the mid 190s.
I’ve seen him repair maps from other companies that charge a fortune and I’ve seen him jailbreak an Alkatek ECU from an Impreza that was done by Simon Roe(RIP) of Jolly green monster and he installed lock codes I believe on them so u couldn’t read the base map. He’s a very talented guy and like I said at the very beginning, I didn’t set out to cause arguments or create a dick swinging contest, I was only wondering IF ANYONE ELSE had managed to do that and what people thought of the claim that a guy I met with a track car on carbs, cams exhaust, remapp (possibly E85) said it reved to 9.5 or 10.5 and was 250 bhp
Point is I’m happy with my car and how quick it is.

No-one else has done it as its not possible. The only way to say you've done it is to throw it onto another dyno.

End of story

 

[RustyMojo]

Can’t find any real internet trace for Orange Grove racing developments, not on Facebook either…but he has achieved what EFI (tuned more of these cars than probably anyone else) ever has with those mods.

 

[Louis]

Found him

https://passionford.com/forum/general-car-related-discussion/397738-any-one-heard-of-orange-grove-motors-newcastle.html

 

[Brigsy]

Ive never heard of them and im pretty much on the door of Newcastle. Only place round here id trust is evotune with dyno dynamics rolling road.

 

[Clio_fool]

I'd bet your track acquaintance is talking bolloks, no way a clio engine is revving over 10000 rpm without a big bang shortly afterwards.
As for your mechanic magician's claims that his dyno figures are spot on, comparing that to nearly 20 years of clio experience covered on this forum I'd be inclined to believe the results for such modifications that have been repeated on here many many times with much lower results than someone nobody has heard of who's mapped 2 clio's with good numbers. As long as it drives well and your happy the that's all good, but you've definatly got dodgy figures.

 

[Brigsy]

Only f4r i have seen that revs to 9500rpm is the Efiparts drag car. It has a lot of custom parts to do that with an element of reliability.

 

[Ben280]

I'd bet your track acquaintance is talking bolloks, no way a clio engine is revving over 10000 rpm without a big bang shortly afterwards.
As for your mechanic magician's claims that his dyno figures are spot on, comparing that to nearly 20 years of clio experience covered on this forum I'd be inclined to believe the results for such modifications that have been repeated on here many many times with much lower results than someone nobody has heard of who's mapped 2 clio's with good numbers. As long as it drives well and your happy the that's all good, but you've definatly got dodgy figures.

I don't know the track guy, I met him on market place and went to buy a part off him for mine. He's no acquaintance just somebody I met once with a garage full of parts and I just asked about the car in the garage, and that's the story I was given

 

[Gally]

Where have you been all my life! Game changer for me. My cousin raved for months about it but it's really is epic.

 

[Sunglasses_Ron]

View attachment 1645230

Where have you been all my life! Game changer for me. My cousin raved for months about it but it's really is epic.

Few to many glasses of bubbly last night mate 😂

 

[Cads]

I read the whole thread, expecting a decent ending. It was not. 🤣

 

[Gally]

Few to many glasses of bubbly last night mate 😂

It's this f**king forum and everytime I include a picture it posts it in a random bloody area, I was literally reading the detailing thread ffs!

 

[Krarl]

It's this f**king forum and everytime I include a picture it posts it in a random bloody area, I was literally reading the detailing thread ffs!

I just love how you managed to post it on a thread that the most recent post was almost a year ago

It's not even like you were pissed to f**k and tapped "Whats new" and just selected a random thread and hoyed the pic in there😂