182 not starting - Solid red light

[Darryl_1983]

So the 182 has been stood a few weeks, due to the gearbox needing a rebuild, and wasn't used much over the winter.

Planning on pulling the gearbox off this weekend, so decided to start the car to make sure everything else was ok.

Nope. Will not start. I've got a solid red light on the dash. If I put the key to position 2 and leave it for a few seconds, it wouldn't even crank over. If I try and crank it over straight away, it'll crank for a few seconds then stop.

I've checked all the fuses in the engine bay and they seem fine. Relays I've swapped and cleaned, but no change.

The uch in the car, I've visually checked for any obvious wire issues and disconnected and reconnected them etc. But again no change.

I've tried both keys, plus a few routines for resetting the immobiliser I find whilst googling. But nothing changes

One think I have noticed is that the car alarm makes a sound when locking the car up afterwards, as if the alarm was set off.

Anyone got any ideas?

Car had no issues leading up to this to suggest something was a miss.

If I need to change the UCH, does it mean I need a matching ECU and key set too. And can I use any 172/182 set?

 

[loggyboy]

You mentioned a gearbox plan, has anything been done already, as there is an earth on the side of the box (above N.S driveshaft) that gave me similar issues.
Have you checked battery?

 

[Darryl_1983]

You mentioned a gearbox plan, has anything been done already, as there is an earth on the side of the box (above N.S driveshaft) that gave me similar issues.
Have you checked battery?

No i've not touched the car at all. Was waiting for the weather to improve, before getting it sorted.

Battery was new about 6 months ago. After leaving it a couple of weeks and trying to start a number of times, it did die, but I've had it hooked up to a charger, and all seems fine.

I'll put checking the earth on the gearbox on the list of things to check.

Ideally, i'd like to have it running before I start stripping things off to remove the gearbox. Just so that I can rule things out without having the possibility of there being a second issue that I've caused when doing the gearbox swap.

 

[NorthloopCup]

Check the white plug in the engine bay fuse box. Terminals in the plug can corrode and cause problems.

 

[Coops Mk1]

That gearbox main earth that's already been mentioned, it'll be that. Remove it, clean mating faces both ends and also clean the bolts and bolt holes too

 

[Darryl_1983]

Thanks, I'll give these a try tomorrow. Hopefully it is as simple as that. 🤞

 

[Darryl_1983]

Tried cleaning the earth strap mounting points and bolts. Plus took all the fuse box to pieces to disconnect the white plug and attempt to clean it up.

No difference, still the same issue as before.

Anyone got any more ideas?

 

[adamlstr]

Can you hear the fuel pump priming?

Did you try this one: https://www.cliosport.net/threads/f...ed-light-wont-crank-over.642484/post-11786987

How many beeps does the alarm sound? The sequence is telling you what tripped the alarm.

 

[Mbeau]

Not sure if this link would be of any help too?

172 Cup Won't Crank Over

At my wits end with my Clio 172 Cup track car. Got in to move it last week and would not start. All lights on dash, soon as I go to start nothing. As I turn to start the car the central clock goes out. Never had any issues like this before. I have read various threads, but I am a bit lost. I...

cliosport.net

 

[MicKPM]

It won't be the fuel pump - Most likely cause is either power/earth/comms issue.

When you turn the Ign on, can you see the EML illuminate in the bottom right? If not, there's the problem (No ECU on CAN).

 

[adamlstr]

It won't be the fuel pump

Sure, but the immob would stop it from doing its business, no?

 

[MicKPM]

The UCH/IMOB will cut the fuel pump and general power latch relay controls (Along with inhibiting the starter) and the ECU will drop the Injector triggers but this isn't an IMOB inhibit scenario. The ADAC is going solid red which means the UCH is reading and accepting a validated key code. If Daryl rushes the Ign process and jumps straight to the energise starter position, I bet the starter engages and then cuts out after 3 secs.

Chances are it'll be a power or comms issue to a single system (EM is the most common on the X65 for causing the solid ADAC). If his EML isn't lighting up at startup, that pretty much confirms it - Then all he needs to do is figure out power and earths to any/all pins and make sure CAN H/L are continuous (You can do a general CAN balance test at EODB port with a DMM to see if the network is generally ok but it's not "Scientific").

 

[loggyboy]

Tried cleaning the earth strap mounting points and bolts. Plus took all the fuse box to pieces to disconnect the white plug and attempt to clean it up.

No difference, still the same issue as before.

Anyone got any more ideas?

Did you check the earth over the driver shaft? its not the main strap, its at the end of the loom that serves the engine.

 

[Euan Baguette]

Clean white plug in engine bay fuse box


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MRBILLYUK]

Clean white plug in engine bay fuse box


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Post #7.

 

[Darryl_1983]

Did you check the earth over the driver shaft? its not the main strap, its at the end of the loom that serves the engine.

Nope, didn't realise there was another on that side to be honest. I'll have a look at that later. Fingers Crossed again.

Oh i replaced the battery in the key, just to be sure it wasn't an almost dead battery. no luck with that, but wasn't expecting it too either.

The UCH/IMOB will cut the fuel pump and general power latch relay controls (Along with inhibiting the starter) and the ECU will drop the Injector triggers but this isn't an IMOB inhibit scenario. The ADAC is going solid red which means the UCH is reading and accepting a validated key code. If Daryl rushes the Ign process and jumps straight to the energise starter position, I bet the starter engages and then cuts out after 3 secs.

Chances are it'll be a power or comms issue to a single system (EM is the most common on the X65 for causing the solid ADAC). If his EML isn't lighting up at startup, that pretty much confirms it - Then all he needs to do is figure out power and earths to any/all pins and make sure CAN H/L are continuous (You can do a general CAN balance test at EODB port with a DMM to see if the network is generally ok but it's not "Scientific").

Exactly that, if I turn the ignition straight on it'll crank for a few second, before stopping on it own. I'll be honest though, the rest of your response doesn't mean a great deal to me.

I don't suppose you still do call outs these day?

 

[MicKPM]

I don't suppose you still do call outs these day?

Sadly not fella, sorry. The tool box is big and the Zoe isn't willing LOL

When you turn the Ignition on, does the Engine Management symbol glow up orange somewhere down the bottom right of the instrument cluster?

 

[Darryl_1983]

Sadly not fella, sorry. The tool box is big and the Zoe isn't willing LOL

When you turn the Ignition on, does the Engine Management symbol glow up orange somewhere down the bottom right of the instrument cluster?

Yeah I figured that was the case, but always worth asking the question.

No the engine management light doesn't come on at any point

 

[MicKPM]

Yeah I figured that was the case, but always worth asking the question.

No the engine management light doesn't come on at any point

Then next we run the ADAC test, to make sure the lamp itself does actually work and that the cluster hasn’t been tampered with (Ignition OFF > Press & hold the button on the end of the wiper stalk > turn the IGN on... Instrument cluster will come to life, chime, light up things, various needles will start to dance about and the EML *should* illuminate. If not, the cluster has been tampered with).

In the case that the ADAC test does show the EML illuminate, the EML not illuminating under normal start up conditions is 100% the reason for your non-starting car... Computer [120] is not present on CAN. Now you know where to start looking

Check the ECU has power, earth and comms - simple!

 

[Darryl_1983]

Did you check the earth over the driver shaft? its not the main strap, its at the end of the loom that serves the engine.

Cleaned this one up this morning

Then next we run the ADAC test, to make sure the lamp itself does actually work and that the cluster hasn’t been tampered with (Ignition OFF > Press & hold the button on the end of the wiper stalk > turn the IGN on... Instrument cluster will come to life, chime, light up things, various needles will start to dance about and the EML *should* illuminate. If not, the cluster has been tampered with).

In the case that the ADAC test does show the EML illuminate, the EML not illuminating under normal start up conditions is 100% the reason for your non-starting car... Computer [120] is not present on CAN. Now you know where to start looking

Check the ECU has power, earth and comms - simple!

Tested cluster, all lights appear.

How do I test the ECU has power, earth and Comms? Seems like this is my issue.

Can you hear the fuel pump priming?

Did you try this one: https://www.cliosport.net/threads/f...ed-light-wont-crank-over.642484/post-11786987

How many beeps does the alarm sound? The sequence is telling you what tripped the alarm.

4 beeps on the alarm.

 

[NorthloopCup]

Cleaned this one up this morning



Tested cluster, all lights appear.

How do I test the ECU has power, earth and Comms? Seems like this is my issue.



4 beeps on the alarm.

I’ll find out the PIN numbers so you can check power/earth/can

 

[JamesBryan]

This any use?

 

[Jason473]

I had this or a very similar issue. Turned out one of the fuses was connected intermittently which was messing with the immobilizer. I did a write up in my progress blog if that helps

 

[Darryl_1983]

This any use?

View attachment 1529546

Thanks for that. I'll be honest, I'm not sure what I need to look for or how to test this stuff.

 

[NorthloopCup]

Thanks for that. I'll be honest, I'm not sure what I need to look for or how to test this stuff.

Try removing the relays in the engine bay fuse box mate (individually) and making sure the terminals are clean and refit. I’m pretty sure that there’s one that has something to do with power supply etc, but I’m fucked if I can remember which one.
Try and start the car after you’ve checked each relay as well.

As for the power supply/earth/comms - do you have a multimeter? If you do I can give you some guidance. I’d come up and do the checks for you, but my dad is currently having cancer treatment so I’ve got to be ridiculously careful about what I do, as I’m taking him for treatment.

 

[JamesBryan]

Thanks for that. I'll be honest, I'm not sure what I need to look for or how to test this stuff.

Nor am I tbh.

Just seems odd that it was fine when you last parked it up and now it's doing this after being sat for a while.

Have you got any jump leads where you could run one from the negative terminal on the battery to the engine, on something like the lifting hook.

That should rule out an earth issue.

 

[NorthloopCup]

For anyone else trying to read that wiring diagram, here’s a brief description:

A lot of sensors are earthed internally within the ecu, so for example, pin 1 & pin 32 ignition coil control is earthed internally - this is indicated by the arrow going towards the writing in the description.
So guess what! All the ones with the arrow away from the writing are outputs.

The ones with - - - indicate voltage supplies/earth/comms.

 

[cotswoldlad]

I had an issue on starting sounded like the immobiliser was stopping the car from starting turned out was the crankshaft sensor

 

[Jason473]

Try removing the relays in the engine bay fuse box mate (individually) and making sure the terminals are clean and refit. I’m pretty sure that there’s one that has something to do with power supply etc, but I’m fucked if I can remember which one.
Try and start the car after you’ve checked each relay as well.

As for the power supply/earth/comms - do you have a multimeter? If you do I can give you some guidance. I’d come up and do the checks for you, but my dad is currently having cancer treatment so I’ve got to be ridiculously careful about what I do, as I’m taking him for treatment.

This. I think it's relay J but may be wrong. Also pull out and clean the fuses as well as the white connector below.

Few threads on here about this issue, touringrob did a good write up with pics and I did my own version in my progress blog. On phone atm so can't post links.

 

[JamesBryan]

Engine bay fuses and relays

Fuses:

Relays:

 

[Darryl_1983]

Try removing the relays in the engine bay fuse box mate (individually) and making sure the terminals are clean and refit. I’m pretty sure that there’s one that has something to do with power supply etc, but I’m fucked if I can remember which one.
Try and start the car after you’ve checked each relay as well.

As for the power supply/earth/comms - do you have a multimeter? If you do I can give you some guidance. I’d come up and do the checks for you, but my dad is currently having cancer treatment so I’ve got to be ridiculously careful about what I do, as I’m taking him for treatment.

Appreciate the help mate. The above is helpful.
I do have a multimeter, bought to test a alternator a while ago. I've just never had a need to look into anything electrical before, so not much idea what to look for outside of bad earth's and broken wires.

Good luck with your dad. Hope everything goes well

 

[R29TJR]

@Darryl_1983 I've had a similar issue earlier this week, although still having issues.

I was advised to turn the ignition on, without cranking for around 30 seconds. Remove key and it removed the red light for me.

Although I'm still having what appears earthing issues.

 

[Darryl_1983]

@Darryl_1983 I've had a similar issue earlier this week, although still having issues.

I was advised to turn the ignition on, without cranking for around 30 seconds. Remove key and it removed the red light for me.

Although I'm still having what appears earthing issues.

I've tried all sorts of procedures with the key that I've been advised to do, or found by searching google. but nothings worked.

The car is currently in bits, as I'm in the process of removing the gearbox for a rebuild (part of the reason the car hadn't been used for a while). I gave up trying to fix it prior to getting this sorted to be honest. Hopefully, with all the bits in the engine bay out the way, something obvious appears.

 

[R29TJR]

I've tried all sorts of procedures with the key that I've been advised to do, or found by searching google. but nothings worked.

The car is currently in bits, as I'm in the process of removing the gearbox for a rebuild (part of the reason the car hadn't been used for a while). I gave up trying to fix it prior to getting this sorted to be honest. Hopefully, with all the bits in the engine bay out the way, something obvious appears.

Good luck with it. Fingers cross it fixes itself, I always pray for that!

Strangely my issue started after my car was sat for 8 months.

 

[Darryl_1983]

If it fixes itself, I'll probably not trust it for a while. But I'll be pretty happy to hear it fire up again.

 

[R29TJR]

If it fixes itself, I'll probably not trust it for a while. But I'll be pretty happy to hear it fire up again.

Any update on this @Darryl_1983

 

[Darryl_1983]

Any update on this @Darryl_1983

It's taken me a little longer than expected to get the gearbox sorted, partly because I've also replaced all the bushes/ball joints/wishbones springs, etc and cleaned up and painted parts before putting them back together. Doesn't help that typically only get 1 day a week to play with it. But it's all back together now, with just the electrical issue to sort.

I've got a little time this week to poke around, but I've book it in with Mick for next Monday. I figured an experienced set of eye, would get it sorted quickly, and potentially see any further issues.

Then it just needs the uprated disc and pads fitting, and it'll be ready to drive hopefully.

I'll update next week with Mick's findings hopefully.

 

[Darryl_1983]

After the car being on Axel stands for about 3-4 weeks, it's good to see it sitting on 4 wheels again. Even if it is ditched.

 

[justinbowness15]

any updates?

 

[Darryl_1983]

any updates?

One faulty wire in the end, the sleeve of the wore had a tiny hole in it and the wire inside had deteriorated to nothing basically. It looked like green powder.

It's much bigger in the pictures because I'd been fiddling around with it.

Mick found the issue and replaced the whole cable for me.

Issues noted by Mick.

I just need to fix an issue with my clutch this weekend and I can finally start to enjoy it again.