182 v 182 Who wins?

[TimMB]

Let's say..

Two 182FF driven the same, both standard, drivers of similar ability differences..

One with 8000k on the clock with 3 large blokes
One with 40,000k on the clock with 2 average sized blokes

No matter how small the difference?

 

[brisa4984]

the 40k one. engine is loose, and plus ure one man less. less weight easy winner.

 

[dangerous dave]

the lighter one....

 

[Dubai182]

Thats like asking who could do a 100m sprint quicker...2 people tied together or one guy on his own.

Lighter car easy.

 

[ozzie]

and the silliest question award goes to...............

seriously what the hell?

 

[TimMB]

You're right, silly question.

Same situation last night only me being the lighter of the two! Now for the serious question. How would I go about working out why mine is under performing? There may be an RR day sometime soon so if I work out that its pushing well under 182bhp is there anything I can do or am I facing "bad" 182?

 

[John D]

Whats a Dynamique 182?

Inlet manifold matching may improve a 'bad' 182 I think. Fairly cheap mod circa £170 IIRC

 

[richlawson]

the one with 40000 its lighter plus engine is more run in

 

[TimMB]

The only thing is, is that I would like to get to the root of why its obviously under performing rather trying to tune it in order to match a normal 182. The difference was marginal. i.e exactly the same right until the higher rev range where it would pull about 1/8 a car length.#

Whats a Dynamique 182?

Its a dynamic 182.

 

[John D]

Whats a Dynamique 182?

Its a dynamic 182.

Great explanation! Different spelling? :S

Is it a 182 lookalike without a 182 lump?

 

[JclioD]

The only thing is, is that I would like to get to the root of why its obviously under performing rather trying to tune it in order to match a normal 182. The difference was marginal. i.e exactly the same right until the higher rev range where it would pull about 1/8 a car length.#

Whats a Dynamique 182?

Its a dynamic 182.

Engine may still be a little tight if thats the case, so may still be newish power. Plus you may have had full tank of petrol too, or he's jsut better driver....

 

[TimMB]

Its a dynamic 182.

Great explanation! Different spelling? :S

Is it a 182 lookalike without a 182 lump?

You mean different translation, was doing an interlingual play-on-words. Obviously a totally waste of time!

Its a 182 FF, would have been pretty sad if I actually thought a non 182 would be faster than a real one.

 

[The Hoff]

Hm, he not running any sort of subtle breathing mods?

Did you struggle for traction at any point?

Fluff a change?

Hit limiter?

Change at optimum RPM (which isn't the redline)?

So many factors, go head-2-head and work it out (on a track of course).

 

[Dubai182]

Maybe a faulty valve?? I remember a guy on here was running 15 valves instead of 16 and it was slightly under performing. Contact Fred.

 

[John D]

Is that what an actual model? Sorry if it is, I've never heard of it. Hence why I asked.

I thought dynamique referred to a 1.4 or 1.6 in the clio range. And of course it would be stupid expecting one of those to keep up lol!

So your car is the one with low milage? If so it is probably still tight like someone else just mentioned

 

[TimMB]

Hm, he not running any sort of subtle breathing mods?

Did you struggle for traction at any point?

Fluff a change?

Hit limiter?

Change at optimum RPM (which isn't the redline)?

So many factors, go head-2-head and work it out (on a track of course).

Hm, he not running any sort of subtle breathing mods? Nope

Did you struggle for traction at any point? Little but it was slightly dump and we both would have suffered.

Fluff a change? Nope

Hit limiter? Nope

Change at optimum RPM (which isn't the redline)? Hmmm possibly, could this have caused a large difference, I know I didn't everytime but what is the optimum in a 182?

Appreciate the ideas mate!

 

[damon]

my god why do people try and analyse these questions..

 

[TimMB]

Is that what an actual model? Sorry if it is, I've never heard of it. Hence why I asked.

I thought dynamique referred to a 1.4 or 1.6 in the clio range. And of course it would be stupid expecting one of those to keep up lol!

So your car is the one with low milage? If so it is probably still tight like someone else just mentioned

Bloody hell you're really not on form today! :rasp:

Dynamique is French for dynamic. I used the play on words referring to the 1.2 and 1.4 models that are named like that to explain the luxury/spec to explain that my normal 182 with Cup Packs is dynamic, phew!

Never doing that again!

my god why do people try and analyse these questions..

Just because you've given up because there is now a 182 which makes yours obselete. :rasp: Only messing mate. Though yours is probably quicker!

 

[John D]

Or why don't you just call it a 182FF like is the norm, when I ask you what a 182 dynamique is in the first place? Would have been simpler

 

[TimMB]

Or why don't you just call it a 182FF like is the norm, when I ask you what a 182 dynamique is in the first place? Would have been simpler

Yes starting to see that now.

 

[damon]

my god why do people try and analyse these questions..

Just because you've given up because there is now a 182 which makes yours obselete. :rasp: Only messing mate. Though yours is probably quicker![/quote]

Haha i prefer my 5 spokes

Its just that you can tell when someone is reaaaaaallly bored because threads like these appear. Normally its 182 vs another marque but i think you must have been pretty high in the bored stakes to post this

At 1am you should be searching for p**n or something.

 

[The Hoff]

Well for example, the redline in most gears is 6,800/7,000. However if you look at the power band and torque curve it drops pretty dramatically after 6,200.

Do a search on here and have a look at some of the dyno results, should give you an idea.

 

[TimMB]

my god why do people try and analyse these questions..

Just because you've given up because there is now a 182 which makes yours obselete. :rasp: Only messing mate. Though yours is probably quicker!

Haha i prefer my 5 spokes

Its just that you can tell when someone is reaaaaaallly bored because threads like these appear. Normally its 182 vs another marque but i think you must have been pretty high in the bored stakes to post this

At 1am you should be searching for p**n or something.

My brain is most active at that time!

Well for example, the redline in most gears is 6,800/7,000. However if you look at the power band and torque curve it drops pretty dramatically after 6,200.

Do a search on here and have a look at some of the dyno results, should give you an idea.

Thanks mate, must admit I'm changing round 6,500k ish, will do.

 

[wacky]

well i wouldnt concider myself that large but the bloke in the back was about 22 stone , nice thread by the way

 

[Paul J]

Gearchange will easily give that sort of difference, you need to be quite brutal in a drag.

I also disagree with the optimum change up point, check the torque curve vs rpm drop between gears and its clearly better to use all the RPM you have.

oh i thought the dynamique bit meant you had a base model car too, although assumed it was a 182 transplant.

 

[TimMB]

well i wouldnt concider myself that large but the bloke in the back was about 22 stone , nice thread by the way

Joined up then, good man! Was an impressive run.

To anyone else this is the guy that I had a 182 tussle with. Yes apologies the guys in the back were large, is one of those guys a bouncer I recognise him!?

 

[wacky]

na m8 he just loves the food, just came back from weston where another blue 182, 04 reg just took a few boots in the passenger door by some pissed up arsehole, wasnt good!!!

 

[rt172]

Let's say..

Two 182FF driven the same, both standard, drivers of similar ability differences..

One with 8000k on the clock with 3 large blokes
One with 40,000k on the clock with 2 average sized blokes

No matter how small the difference?

What happens if the one with 2 blokes and 40k was being driven by a bloke who smokes Benson and Hedges cigarettes and the one with the 3 blokes and 40k was smoking Silk Cut? Would the relative differences in tar content make a difference? I need to know!

 

[TimMB]

^^ Did you learn to be that funny or do you spend all day finding posts that you can post some little sarcastic comment? Go suck on an egg if this doesn't interest you.

 

[KingTrophy]

I think your a bell-end for starting this ordeal of a thread.....

 

[TheJesus]

I'm with Rhys on this one, I think it's more a case of wtf, is this thread for real?

 

[TimMB]

I'm with Rhys on this one, I think it's more a case of wtf, is this thread for real?

Why, because someone wants to know why their car is underperforming? Perfectly reasonable argument, it is plain to see that my car is certainly not what it should be and as I've paid good dollar for a car quoted at 182 brake I am well in my right to question it. I don't need your comments on why I have posted the "useless" thread but if you could show a little respect, not you specially, and maybe throw in suggestions.

KingTrophy, glad you graced me with your presents. Move along you arrogant child, go play elsewhere.

I appreciate those that have made sensible comments, will look into these. Any more decent suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[TheJesus]

nothing is plain to see at all, your asking why a car with a new tight engine and an extra passenger is slower than a 40k car in it's engine prime with less weight... I'd hope it was a rhetorical question, but you are actually serious, so common sense asside what answer would you like to hear? your car is broken? it was made on a bank holiday? you cant drive etc etc? I'd go for the most obvious answer being the closest

 

[TimMB]

So technically it is plain to see, nothing like a bit of contradiction there, so I assuming that it is broken? If so, maybe those that have had experience can give me an idea why a stock car maybe under performing.

Yes the first question was rhetorical but for a means of wondering the reasons behind it. So the answer I would like to hear, "yes you're right" and here are technical factors that may cause a car to be sluggish.

I just find it hard for those to grasp this, I find that my car is pulling below its weight any reasons why this could be?

 

[TheJesus]

read between the lines and you will understand the context , nothing performance related (or lack of) to your car is plain to see. get two people that can drive, are of similar weight and then go again and the loser engined car 'should' still pull away, but it's not going to be much, but dont expect any sensible reply's from two cars racing with different amount of passengers, as weight will affect the performance more than the inlet being out by a fraction of an mm, especially on a non tuned with stock torque figures.

so basically, there is nothing wrong with your car, it's a new engine... the end. that better?

 

[rory182]

agree about looser engines being better.

Also, some are good some are bad, standard v's standard at a recent rolling road a 182 made 186 brake and another made 179.

 

[TimMB]

read between the lines and you will understand the context , nothing performance related (or lack of) to your car is plain to see. get two people that can drive, are of similar weight and then go again and the loser engined car 'should' still pull away, but it's not going to be much, but dont expect any sensible reply's from two cars racing with different amount of passengers, as weight will affect the performance more than the inlet being out by a fraction of an mm, especially on a non tuned with stock torque figures.

so basically, there is nothing wrong with your car, it's a new engine... the end. that better?

Ah not really as if you re-read its my car with the older engine, more miles. Fair enough that would have been a silly question. I am the one with less weight and a 40k engine.

So lets some up; I've done a lot more miles and I had less load and he pulled away.

P.S. I've realised I put 40,000K, I meant 40K

 

[TheJesus]

40'000k it may be a little too loose... lol

in that case then it's probably just cast differences on the parts, inlet match would do some ways to remedy this problem, Ben or Andy would probably be the best people to do this.

race him again both on your own and get it on camera if you can to show what difference there is, as he may have a freakishly quick one and yours may actually just be the norm.

 

[Cue]

how many explanations do you want - there could be a hundered possible reasons.... could be as simple as he was using 99 ron petrol and you were on 95. could be tyre pressures, could be his side of the road or his tracks had a bit more grip than yours, it only takes a delay of a fraction of a second to allow one car to pull away from another of equal power - see motorsport starts.

 

[Martin]

unless it was serious kicking I would'nt worry about it...some good un' some bad un's simple as that.