182 Vs Mini works

[ChrisM]

Another who cares? thread.



It might be faster.

It might not be.

It should be faster for the money blah blah blah.

My mate blah blah blah.

But my mate has a modified blah blah blah.

But X car doesnt cost as much so I feel smug because Ive spent less money.

My driving ability blah blah blah.

Twisty roads and handling blah blah blah.

Get him on my local b-roads blah blah.

Performance figure quotes etc.



Jesus cant people just be happy with the car they have bought and not compare the size of their power output or torque curves and dribble on about hypothetical or actual head to heads.

 

[Chris n nic]

erm.....not sure what you are getting at m8. He asked a question to which I said I would try and get the answer?! If you dont care why take the time to post all that. A simple side by side rolling and standing start will answer the questions with out doubt as there is no real driver skill needed...if one of us misses a gear it will be obvious and well just go again...

Chris

 

[racinblue182]

Isnt that what forums are about tho? People exchanging views on various topics and comparing this and that?

Be a bit boring otherwise.......

 

[racinblue182]

Sorry Chris (n Nic), you beat me to it!

[Edited by racinblue182 on 11 April 2005 at 2:35pm]

 

[bigmouk]

"I am happy with my 182 and am not interested on how it compares to other cars and especially cars of similar power and size."

There you go, how boring is that !!!!!!!!

 

[harv172]

i dont think there will be anything in it, with stats as close as they are it will be all down to the driver. although if your mate is really the best driver in the world as he claims he just just win lol

 

[Viv172]

Ive driven both cars, Cooper S is great to drive, but not faster than a 182.

If the Cooper S was the same price as the Clio, then Id have a one for my next car, its good bit not 20k good

 

[Darren S]

Ill be interested in the results - for sure. For those who have never driven just a basic Cooper S (not a Works) the power delivery is a welcome change - the complete opposite of turbo cars.

Jains Mini feels heavier and is heavier than my 182. Its low-down surge would be more than caught up by the 182 once it gets into its stride and while I thought the handling was good when I had my GT, its been outclassed by the 182. Like others say on here - the price difference as well. Works Minis are stupid money. If they were 2nd hand, 2-3 years old and about £12k, then it maybe different. Theres a whole heap of metal Id rather have for £20k than a Works Mini.

Oh, and the fact that onlookers think you bat for the other team, usually doesnt help.....

D.

 

[TheJesus]

Quote: Originally posted by ChrisM on 11 April 2005


Another who cares? thread.



It might be faster.

It might not be.

It should be faster for the money blah blah blah.

My mate blah blah blah.

But my mate has a modified blah blah blah.

But X car doesnt cost as much so I feel smug because Ive spent less money.

My driving ability blah blah blah.

Twisty roads and handling blah blah blah.

Get him on my local b-roads blah blah.

Performance figure quotes etc.



Jesus cant people just be happy with the car they have bought and not compare the size of their power output or torque curves and dribble on about hypothetical or actual head to heads.

dont be such a lesbian, its a car forum, how can be discussing a cars performance not be relevant? I mean FFS, take that away and its just an agony aunt forum with pictures of standard cars scattered about... now that sounds fun...

 

[ChrisM]

Quote: Originally posted by Chris nnic on 11 April 2005


A simple side by side rolling and standing start will answer the questions with out doubt as there is no real driver skill needed...if one of us misses a gear it will be obvious and well just go again...

Chris

Thats my point. Its the only answer to the question isnt it. Otherwise you just end up sounding like the bloke from the fast show that asks

Which do you think would win in a fight between a badger and a squirrel?

then comes What about two vicious squirrels who think the badger has taken their nuts?

then comes What about a stoat? Which would win in a fight between a badger and a stoat? (i.e. subtly changing the argument in favour of one party.)

Im not advocating animal cruelty or baiting but the answer is obvious. Stick em in the ring together and see who wins. Not a load of regurgitated guff from people who havent (in the case of the cars) driven either (or in case of the badger and the squirrel seen their previous fights!)

Although I accept that a lot of people posting here at least seem to have driven or been driven in both cars (not the squirrel or the badger though).

 

[Munson]

Quote: Originally posted by ChrisM on 11 April 2005
Another who cares? thread. It might be faster.It might not be.It should be faster for the money blah blah blah.My mate blah blah blah.But my mate has a modified blah blah blah.But X car doesnt cost as much so I feel smug because Ive spent less money.My driving ability blah blah blah.Twisty roads and handling blah blah blah.Get him on my local b-roads blah blah.Performance figure quotes etc. Jesus cant people just be happy with the car they have bought and not compare the size of their power output or torque curves and dribble on about hypothetical or actual head to heads.



http://homepage.ntlworld.com/pip_taylor/images/emoticons/toz.gif May I suggest http://www.gardenerscorner.co.uk/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgiTHIS site, either that or just dont contribute to topics that dont interest you

 

[ChrisM]

Quote: Originally posted by TheJesus on 11 April 2005

Quote: Originally posted by ChrisM on 11 April 2005


Another who cares? thread.



It might be faster.

It might not be.

It should be faster for the money blah blah blah.

My mate blah blah blah.

But my mate has a modified blah blah blah.

But X car doesnt cost as much so I feel smug because Ive spent less money.

My driving ability blah blah blah.

Twisty roads and handling blah blah blah.

Get him on my local b-roads blah blah.

Performance figure quotes etc.



Jesus cant people just be happy with the car they have bought and not compare the size of their power output or torque curves and dribble on about hypothetical or actual head to heads.

dont be such a lesbian, its a car forum, how can be discussing a cars performance not be relevant? I mean FFS, take that away and its just an agony aunt forum with pictures of standard cars scattered about... now that sounds fun...

PMSL

You miss the point. Discuss the performance of cars. But head to head discussions can only be sorted by head to heads. Not by typing.

Now it sounds like the fella who has bought/in the process of buying the Mini is fairly irritating (worlds best driver, his mini is the best car because hes bought one) but the best way to bring him down is for Chris to pooh on him in a head to head.

As for this part of the post. WTF.

 

[ChrisM]

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/pip_taylor/images/emoticons/toz.gif May I suggest http://www.gardenerscorner.co.uk/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgiTHIS site, either that or just dont contribute to topics that dont interest you

Roy. May I suggest that you keep on topic. Your personal opinions of me (although many people will agree with you) arent important and I certainly wont be losing any sleep over them.

ps abuse/violence are the last resort of someone without the wit/intelligence to construct a plausible or coherent argument.

 

[Munson]

Take a pill mate, notice the wink

It was meant in a flippant way that youd call a friend a t**ser, although I realise that wouldnt have been obvious, so please accept my apologies. I dont have a personal opinion of you dude cos I dont know you, so your forum posts are all I can respond to

Anyway, I doubt thered be much between a Mini JCW, and a 182, maybe a car length or three, either way, to 80mph perhaps?

 

[ChrisM]

OK peace. No need to apologise though. We live in a free society and youre allowed your opinion as I am allowed mine. (None of the next bit of this post is supposed to be aggressive or threatening)

But try flippantly calling a stranger in the street a t**ser and see what response you get. (Mind you in Britain youll get one of two responses. A smack in the nose or the stranger running off into the distance with brown stains in his pants but only to tell his mates in the pub later that evening how he beat you down and made you apologise).

Sorry for the diversion from the original topic.

Will await the post after the head to head (I suspect it will almost be too close to call though. The Mini owner will content himself he has a car built with the precision of the Master-race and the Clio owner will be just as content knowing he has a damn good/fast/poised car for the money (even if the interior is a bit plasticky and it has mediocre seats)

 

[TheJesus]

Quote: Originally posted by ChrisM on 11 April 2005

Quote: Originally posted by TheJesus on 11 April 2005

dont be such a lesbian, its a car forum, how can be discussing a cars performance not be relevant? I mean FFS, take that away and its just an agony aunt forum with pictures of standard cars scattered about... now that sounds fun...

PMSL

You miss the point. Discuss the performance of cars. But head to head discussions can only be sorted by head to heads. Not by typing.

Now it sounds like the fella who has bought/in the process of buying the Mini is fairly irritating (worlds best driver, his mini is the best car because hes bought one) but the best way to bring him down is for Chris to pooh on him in a head to head.

As for this part of the post. WTF.

I see it slightly differently, my opinion on this would be that Chris will spank him, not heard of a mini do a 14.1... in fact ive not really heard much about minis... apart from its the quickest way into a new entry level BMW ownership ... but seriously, I love their feminine looks... no really... (he says with crossed fingers).

Indeed the mini driver does seem irritating, but £20k is expensive for a toy so im sure hes just trying to defend his purchase... hes still a fool however, £20k can buy you something good... like 2 million penny sweets.

The last remark made was a sarcastic comment aimed at the way the forum is policed for topics, not really relevant, just thought id add it in

 

[Chewy]

hmmmm interesting, PMSL.

well i shall be posting a thread when its all done and dusted.

In the mean time, this thread was originally posted in sheer curiosty. I never thought of a mini being able to beat a 182. Therefore I was simply asking the opinions of other people. So i could guage some kind of general expectations.

It was, however, in no way meant to be braggy. As a matter of fact, it would be the last thing. The guy that has bought the mini does indeed have more money than brains, the purchase surely proves that. This "friend" of mine used to bully me in school, until one day i turned around and smacked him, then he didnt anymore, and now were fairly good mates.

That however is beside the point, and now im rambling.

/rant

 

[Gary G]

Theres nothing in it between my 200bhp 182 and my brothers MCS (also tuned to 200bhp)

The 182 has much better traction from standing start but once rolling theres not a lot in it at all!!

 

[Mondial172]

Most buyers spend around V6 money.

The V6 may not have back seats but then again the Minis are complete crap for anyone over 5 tall!

The V6 may not have much of a boot but my god! have you seen the Minis! - Makes the Clio look like an estate car!

I know most people dont buy a small hot hatch for its storage space but has to be said. You are looking at Clio V6 money once youve specd a Mini.

 

[mangolango]

My friend got a 220hp mini cooper s and I found out it has more power compare to my 172 on the street the cooper has a lot of torque steer through corner but much better mid range than my 172. The cooper feel more stable on the staight but though corner its another story. My 172 feel more alive through corner. The cooper S (orginal) is a joke it cant compare to the 172 but after our modification to 220hp it is FAST

 

[ChrisJCW]

I’ve driven both the 172 cup (my mates car) and have myself a Cooper S Works.

A few things.

230bhp? Unless he’s tuned it further it won’t have 230bhp. Mine is probably touching the 220bhp mark and that’s with a replacement manifold and sports cat on. To get to 230bhp he’d need a smaller pulley, different idler belt, ecu remap, etc etc. Not sure if many JCW owners would do this as the main reason for going for the JCW package is to keep the warranty. Its not the most cost effective way of getting the car powerful as if I wanted to blow my warranty totally, I would have gone for the GTT Tuning package (they’re demo car is now 273bhp!).

Yeah sure my car cost a lot more than the Clio but then I wanted something a bit different and for me, its not all down to the power of the car, I actually liked the interior, the sat nav, and all the other bits I’ve got on the car. Seeing as its used as a daily commute I needed more than just an engine! (I’ve got a Caterham R300 for that!!).

I did once have a little rag with a 182 and he stayed with me through first and second gear to the redline and it was only when I got to nearing the redline in 3rd gear (about 120mph) that I started to pull on him.

I love the Clios, but like the Type R, found them slightly gutless in 5th gear (torque wise). Just found I was forever shifting down to get the thing moving. Below 60mph though it flies! Another thing that lets the Mini down is its standard Runflat tyres. They’re god damn terrible and this is why they do so badly on track day tests in the magazines. I’m gonna put some good rubber of my car and that should sort it out a treat.

Don’t forget the Mini Cooper S is not really focused like the Clio 182 is as a drivers car. The Works package adds the BHP but you still need to do things (like lowering, strut brace etc) to get it more focused!

I love both, but for me I prefer the Mini as an overall package, even if it did cost more!

 

[TheJesus]

some good points Chris, but its performance we are talking about, what sort of 1/4 mile times do these Cooper S John Fred Trevor and Simon Super Special Mini Works get? (or whatever the package is called...)

 

[Chewy]

Quote: Originally posted by TheJesus on 12 April 2005
some good points Chris, but its performance we are talking about, what sort of 1/4 mile times do these Cooper S John Fred Trevor and Simon Super Special Mini Works get? (or whatever the package is called...)


PMSL!!!!

Yeah, this discussion is purely performance. I was just interested in opinions on a mini works.

 

[ChrisJCW]

This is quite old, but gives you an idea of the kind of times people are getting:

<A target=_blank href= "http://www.ross-tech.net/andy/mini/dragracing/quartermile.htmlhttp://www.ross-tech.net/andy/mini/dragracing/quartermile.html

JCW = John Cooper Works as in John Cooper, the founder of the Original Mini Cooper.

Purely performance wise anything really below 70mph there isnt really much in it. It is interesting though that however many times these subjects come up, it always seems to come down to "well it cost £xxxx less."

You could get a turbo 2ltr Nova which would be quicker than both of these cars, for £xxxx less than the Clio. Not that youd ever want a Nova, but you see my point

Dont forget also that although the Mini is more expensive, it really doesnt lose much value. My mum sold her standard Cooper (3 years old) bought for £12,500 and sold for £11,000 back to the dealer! So yeah you might pay more to start with but when you sell it, you get a lot back again.

 

[Chris n nic]

Ahh yes. But of course a 2ltr turbo nova isnt standard....they would probably say for £10k - £12k new car you cant do much better than the clio...but the 20K for the mini could be spent on some very nice alternatives....

I have to say that I actually quite like the some of the minis. There is a light met blue with xenons near me that looks pretty cool, as does black with the black and white unionjack on the roof...imo of course

Chris

 

[y0z2a]

same is to be said about the civic rs

:-(

172s lose more value quicker than a freefaller falls. :-(

/y0z

 

[ChrisJCW]

But the JCW Mini isnt standard either, its an aftermarket (although approved) modification.

Yeah I could have gone out and got a second hand Scooby or something like that, but every man and his dog has one of those and I like having something a bit different.

Also as I said before I use mine as a daily commute. I wanted something that wasnt going to be stupid on fuel costs, cheap to service and retain good value. I paid £100 up front and get all my servicing done for this for the next 5 years (called the TLC pack) and it doesnt cost a lot to fill her up with fuel.

When I sell it next year, Ill probably still get close to the 20k mark (if not a little more) then Ill just use that for a deposit on something really quick...like an Evo (this is of course if I stop using the car to commute to work in).


[Edited by ChrisJCW on 12 April 2005 at 2:03pm]

 

[Max172cup]

The minis hold their value do they? My mate spent £24k on his Cooper S works, and that was with 800miles on the clock. Hes had it 2 years and done 17k in it, the dealer in Leeds has offered him £15k for it. And hes not had much interest when hes advertised it. The Mini market is flooded, and with them bringing out a better turbo and n/a versions soon IMHO the price of minis is just gonna drop further.

[Edited by Max172cup on 12 April 2005 at 2:06pm]

And you reckon Minis are a bit different, they are the most common car i see in Leeds. And Cooper Ss are ten a penny amongst them. The works is not obvious enough to stand out from the crowd of minis.

 

[ChrisJCW]

The turbo version comes out in 2007 so it wont be until around about then that the prices will take a hit (hence me selling mine next year).

Your mate must have been ripped off by the dealer if they offered him 15k for it. My mums car was sold last month (on an 02 plate) back to the dealership for a total loss of £1500 off the list price! Theres also still a 5 month wait on a new Cooper S (standard) car.

Id sell my car back to John Cooper Garages anyway as they would offer a better price.

Regarding them being a "bit different", Im not a showman so I dont have to have a car that says "look at me". Yeah it doesnt look much different to the standard car, but it goes a lot better than it

 

[D-CUP]

The Cooper S was faster than the 182 in a recent EVO test.

I dont think youll get anywhere 20k for yours Chris. Prices have dropped on MINIs.

 

[RobFenn]

Quote: Originally posted by Darren S on 11 April 2005




Oh, and the fact that onlookers think you bat for the other team, usually doesnt help.....

D.





Just because youre insecure about your sexuality, doesnt mean everyone else is.

 

[ChrisJCW]

Might not get close to 20k when I sell it, but when I had it valued in Jan I was told that if they (John Cooper Garage) were to buy it, I’d get between 20-22k for it. It’s not a bad price considering the higher mileage I’ve got on it now.

Still we’ll see, some dealers would try to get it for a lot less, some for more. Getting a fully loaded JCW car like mine is quite hard second-hand as a guy at work wanted to get one after being in mine. He was quoted a 5 month wait for the standard car and dealers are still messing about trying to get kits installed.

Anyway, gotta get the house sorted first as the misses will go mad if I spend any more on my car haha!

 

[Mondial172]

Minis are common as muck round here (croydon) to!

Not talking JCWs but the amount of company car drivers that have had a Cooper-S instead of a bottom of the range 3 series is amazing!

See miles more Coopers and Cooper-Ss than I do 2.0 Clios

Bloke at work owns an ONE and hes sometimes talks like its an M5. Hes not bought a Mini - the way he says it - he bought a BMW.

 

[ChrisJCW]

Haha I wouldnt talk about it even in the same league as the M3/M5 type cars, but they do have BMW build quality, well at least mine does!

Yeah its good fun but its a small hatch, same as the Clio. Theres loads of them about, but then again, theres loads of Clios, Fiestas, CTRs etc.

The only cars I dont see many of are the Focus RS (see maybe 2 a month) and the JCW Mini (only seen 3 others on the road since I got mine in 2003).

Anyway, the bottom line is that as a budget performance car, the Clio cant be beaten for value in terms of its performance. If you want more, then the Mini can offer it. Well thats my opinion anyway

 

[bsimmer3000]

mate @ the moment is trying to sell his cooper s and no bodys intrested in it. just so meny for sale that hes getting hardly any response. just the other day their was a cooper s works on e-bay. mint condition and low miles and it didnt even hit the reserve. only got to £13000 the bloke had paid something like £23000 2 years ago.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=38708&item=4538416392&rd=1http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=38708&item=4538416392&rd=1

The tlc pack was all about trying to stop people worrying about the service cost for the car as it would have to be charged the same rate as the bmw service rate. problem is this will really affect second hand sales as when the tlc runs out it cost big time.

 

[Chewy]

i cant believe this has gone onto price again, despite someone bitching about it always turning into a price battle.

 

[MJD1]

Chris,

The reason that Clios are "gutless in 5th" is to give you Mini boys a chance to catch back up!!! And dont go using the "I had the wrong map on my ECU" excuse again please!!

I am the mate with the Cup Chris refered to and I have driven his car too. All joking aside, there is naff all difference between the two performance wise apart from when we rag it against each other as he drives it like a tart!!

 

[TheJesus]

so you have a slow Cup?

 

[MJD1]

Cheeky!

 

[TheJesus]

lol, in terms of this little scientific test I seriously think Chris Cup will pish on the mini tho. I looked at the 1/4 mile times posted up and they need some serious mods and money spent to even get a slightly respectible time so I certainly dont worry when I see one on the road... Works or otherwise. How modded can the Clio be in this test I wonder, the charger makes up the lack of engine CC, but the works pack is effectively like taking you car to Hill Power for a full tune up? hardly standard... I think a fairer test is Nick Read or Matts turbod Clios VS a Works... one is about 10 years old too... Minis gonna waste that surely