197 and 200...How much difference is there?

[Chapppers11]

Im with Alanc and to define enhtusiast or not I would wager that there will be more people who refer to it as "my car" or "my clio" rather than "my 200" or "my 197" thats a crude but relatively effective way to tell, lol

You can spot the real 200 nerds as when talking about what they drive they will say "200 Silverstone #44" or something like that.

Seriously though, I should imagine most people buying them are into "sporty little cars" rather than specifically being renault obsessed.

See it all the time when you look at the trade ins before and after and its a Corsa VXR or a Focus ST etc, ie they like those sort of cars, but not too fussed about one specific brand

Lol, sometimes Chip, you don't half drivel for the sake of it.

There is a difference between being an enthusiast and an anorak, I consider myself an enthusiast but don't quote the model of my car to everyone I meet.

Since when does an enthusiast have to be brand-specific? Generally, imo, if you are looking at ST's and VXR's, you are a car enthusiast!

 

[alanc1000]

It's an extremely focussed product is what I'm saying. Mrs Billybob with her two kids won't be walking into Renault and ordering one.

You only need to visit Renaultsport forums or any of the many Renaultsport corporate track days to see that a higher percentage of enthusiasts own their products than housewives. If said enthusiasts didn't specify their cars for this type of driving, we wouldn't even have the option of Recaros or even the Cup variant on the 197/200. No demand, no option.

It's an enthusiasts' tool more than it's a shopping trolley. Simple really. Quoting figures out of the air or not, that's the truth.

But at corporate track day or on a forum, you will find hardly any non enthusiasts, or anyone with at least a passing interest in the car beyond something that looks nice and is a bit nippy, because they'll have no interest in attending or being part of a forum, thats what i mean by a non enthusiast compared to an enthusiast. The real test of the numbers would be go down to the petrol station and count the first 50 197s and 200s in to the car park (might take a while!) and find out just how many of these owners in the real world know much about their clios capabilities, have done track days, could name the cars that the 200's / 197's compete with, are members of pistonheads/cliosport/197.net etc. I very much doubt the majorty of owners will know even half what those in this forum or the enthusiast community know, if anything at all really. They might be able to quote the 0-62 time.

Dont get me wrong i love them both aand i had a 197 myself, but what i am saying is whilst its a car owned by many enthusiasts, things like bucket seats etc are going to be wasted on most of their customers who would just find them pointless whilst going to Asda. Renault surely know this.

What do you class as an enthusiast? Track day driving guru? owned a long line of renaults? has a Renaultsport jacket? post count of 10k plus on CS.net? I have none of the above but i have an interest in cars. So class my self as an enthusiast. I would imagine most Clio Sport owners have an interest in cars and haven't just picked it at random. Its very hard to depict what an enthusiast is, and with the Clio sport being a very niche market aimed car i would imagine most people went looking for them.

Fair enough its hard to state what an enthusiast is, as its different in many peoples eyes, i've had a 172/182/197 and am a member here so i like the cars, but dont know the ins and outs of them, so would say i am enthusiastic about them to a level, but no way near as enthusiastic and many on here who do track days, engine upgrades etc. That being said i think its pretty easy to say what someone who isnt an enthusiast is - it would be someone who bought one because they looked nice, represent great value for money, but has no real loyalty to the brand, and who couldnt really care less how they perform on a track I'd still say that is a large chunk of the owners out there!

I dont think its anything to be ashamed about though either way.

 

[MarkCup]

The lack of market for a 'poorly' specced 200/197 or problems at resale time is a myth IMO.

Try selling mine on here and I'd likely get no interest.

But if I actually tried selling it to the non-RS fan motoring public en masse, I don't expect I'll have even the slightest issue. We'll see in a few years.

 

[Gorms]

Since when does an enthusiast have to be brand-specific? Generally, imo, if you are looking at ST's and VXR's, you are a car enthusiast!

This to be fair!

A car enthusiast is the only person in my opinion who would own them kind of cars.

Oh and just so everyone knows i have never refereed to my car as "#44 SGP edition"

 

[not normal dan]

Lol, sometimes Chip, you don't half drivel for the sake of it.

There is a difference between being an enthusiast and an anorak, I consider myself an enthusiast but don't quote the model of my car to everyone I meet.

Since when does an enthusiast have to be brand-specific? Generally, imo, if you are looking at ST's and VXR's, you are a car enthusiast!

This is the case I think, I'm pretty much loyal to a brand really cause for some reason I love these little clio's. But I think your right, when your buying one of these cars your in the market for it like I said in previous posts. You buy it for what it is an the performance, if your just in the market for a new car with warrenty you buy a kia.

 

[not normal dan]

The lack of market for a 'poorly' specced 200/197 or problems at resale time is a myth IMO.

Try selling mine on here and I'd likely get no interest.

But if I actually tried selling it to the non-RS fan motoring public en masse, I don't expect I'll have even the slightest issue. We'll see in a few years.

My old 197 went within a few days an tbh it was just a bogo spec with aircon an c/c. The kid who brought said he liked the recaros but it wouldn't have changed his decision.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Lol, sometimes Chip, you don't half drivel for the sake of it.

There is a difference between being an enthusiast and an anorak, I consider myself an enthusiast but don't quote the model of my car to everyone I meet.

Since when does an enthusiast have to be brand-specific? Generally, imo, if you are looking at ST's and VXR's, you are a car enthusiast!

The first bit was just a joke, hence the use of "lol" and the second half of my post started "but seriously..."



But a general car enthusiast like I am saying will typically buy these cars not a renault enthusiast will be less obsessed with getting a CS friendly spec when they buy a car is the point alanc and people are making that you are missing.

I personally do not expect to see cars with the lesser seats selling at a few years old for a bigger price difference than the purchase price difference between them new, so I dont see how its a financial mistake to buy the cheaper ones, in fact quite the opposite I would imagine on balance over the initial 3 years it will probably work out beneficial.

 

[Advikaz]

When I got mine the dealer said there were only 33 Pearl White 200's in the country at the time (2 months ago or so). I'm hoping the rarity of the colour & the fact mines pretty well specced will mean it'll sell easily when the time comes.

We shall see....

 

[Gorms]

When I got mine the dealer said there were only 33 Pearl White 200's in the country at the time (2 months ago or so). I'm hoping the rarity of the colour & the fact mines pretty well specced will mean it'll sell easily when the time comes.

We shall see....

I think colour has a far larger part to play in resale value than the spec. I personally refused to pay extra for paint, plus i didn't have a choice. But people will be looking and pay more for the rarer colours in the future. Storm grey and PW will demand a higher price in the future, dont think it will be enough to out weight the original cost which is silly but they will see pretty quick.

 

[RDH]

Spec will affect resale, fact. More so these days as I think I a higher percentage of these cars will be driven by enthusiasts (as such) because of the cost of running them. Tax/insurance/fuel etc are all on the rise, and I'd say most of your average people who just buy them because they want a nice car but aren't enthusiasts so to speak, won't be buying them. Some won't be able to afford, and some will begrudge paying, opting for cheaper car instead.

If the above situation stands to reason, there are less and less 'Joe public' buying cars like this and all expendables continue to increase, then I think people with poor spec cars will struggle to sell them, as enthusiasts want options.

Having seen it, Chris's 200 is more or less the perfect spec, IMO anyway. Colour is obviously a preference.

 

[Christopher]

If there was no market for the options on 200's, they wouldn't off them as part of a build. Simple really.

That's the reason Alien Green and Storm Grey were canned for 2012. No orders, no point.

Personally, I really wanted my car to be 'my spec' and it feels a lot more special for it.

Also, spec will and does affect resale. When I sell my car, it'll will sell quicker than a boggo 200 because of the big spec. Guaranteed.

...that and the fact I pamper my cars.

 

[not normal dan]

Spec will affect resale, fact. More so these days as I think I a higher percentage of these cars will be driven by enthusiasts (as such) because of the cost of running them. Tax/insurance/fuel etc are all on the rise, and I'd say most of your average people who just buy them because they want a nice car but aren't enthusiasts so to speak, won't be buying them. Some won't be able to afford, and some will begrudge paying, opting for cheaper car instead.

If the above situation stands to reason, there are less and less 'Joe public' buying cars like this and all expendables continue to increase, then I think people with poor spec cars will struggle to sell them, as enthusiasts want options.

Having seen it, Chris's 200 is more or less the perfect spec, IMO anyway. Colour is obviously a preference.

I'm don't thing the "lower spec'd" cars will struggle to sell, I sold my standard spec 197 pretty quick to an enthusiast an he's a member on this site too. I think if anything a lower spec'd car maybe be more sellable in terms to speak. If joe public fancys one who isn't to fussed about spec is he going to pay the extra for recaros etc? Plus what about the enthusiasts with a smaller budget? Or in a few years to come the ones that want stripped out track cars?

If I was buying one again I would go for a specc'd up 197/200 but thats because thats what I'd personally have.

 

[RDH]

I'm don't thing the "lower spec'd" cars will struggle to sell, I sold my standard spec 197 pretty quick to an enthusiast an he's a member on this site too. I think if anything a lower spec'd car maybe be more sellable in terms to speak. If joe public fancys one who isn't to fussed about spec is he going to pay the extra for recaros etc? Plus what about the enthusiasts with a smaller budget? Or in a few years to come the ones that want stripped out track cars?

If I was buying one again I would go for a specc'd up 197/200 but thats because thats what I'd personally have.

The people who want them for track cars will be very small tbh.

And your last sentence kind of proved my point. You want a car with spec, therefore would overlook a boggo one, as would 90% of the market I'd say.

 

[not normal dan]

The people who want them for track cars will be very small tbh.

And your last sentence kind of proved my point. You want a car with spec, therefore would overlook a boggo one, as would 90% of the market I'd say.

Yes but I'm an enthusiast, people that came in my old car commented on how smart it was inside an out an how well equipped it was for a small car. They were into cars but not to the degree some of us lot.

I wouldn't pay stupid amounts of money extra for a specc'd car though if it came to the crunch.

 

[MarkCup]

If there was no market for the options on 200's, they wouldn't off them as part of a build. Simple really.

That's the reason Alien Green and Storm Grey were canned for 2012. No orders, no point.

Personally, I really wanted my car to be 'my spec' and it feels a lot more special for it.

Also, spec will and does affect resale. When I sell my car, it'll will sell quicker than a boggo 200 because of the big spec. Guaranteed.

...that and the fact I pamper my cars.

I wouldn't say it will sell quicker...it may well (probably will) sell for more. But quicker?

Alan pointed out there was something like 3,000 197/200s registered..and there's only a small percentage of those on here/clio197.net/renaultsport.co.uk.

There's plenty of people out there who would happily consider one of these cars that haven't been swept along by the gotta-have-recaros-and-speedlines or it's s**t mentality.

End of the day, the thing that sells these cars, their USP, the essence of what Renaultsport Clios is all about, is how they drive. Seats, wheels, suspension etc. don't really affect that essence one bit.

If someone really wants one for that, the spec in my opinion is secondary.

 

[MarkCup]

.

 

[not normal dan]

I wouldn't say it will sell quicker...it may well (probably will) sell for more. But quicker?

Alan pointed out there was something like 3,000 197/200s registered..and there's only a small percentage of those on here/clio197.net/renaultsport.co.uk.

There's plenty of people out there who would happily consider one of these cars that haven't been swept along by the gotta-have-recaros-and-speedlines or it's s**t mentality.

End of the day, the thing that sells these cars, their USP, the essence of what Renaultsport Clios is all about, is how they drive. Seats, wheels, suspension etc. don't really affect that essence one bit.

If someone really wants one for that, the spec in my opinion is secondary.

Totally agree with you there mark

 

[Christopher]

End of the day, the thing that sells these cars, their USP, the essence of what Renaultsport Clios is all about, is how they drive. Seats, wheels, suspension etc. don't really affect that essence one bit.

If someone really wants one for that, the spec in my opinion is secondary.

Cup Chassis then?

 

[RDH]

Yes but I'm an enthusiast, people that came in my old car commented on how smart it was inside an out an how well equipped it was for a small car. They were into cars but not to the degree some of us lot.

Exactly my point. If these people no longer buy them due to increasing costs etc, making more of the buyer market enthusiasts, then spec will come into it.

It should come into it regardless. I think that anyone who buys a car with the minimum spec possible is either an idiot, or can't afford a proper one.

 

[aucky]

Cup Chassis then?

Invalid without cup spoiler.

 

[Advikaz]

Invalid without cup spoiler.

+1 Down force Y0!

 

[MarkCup]

Exactly my point. If these people no longer buy them due to increasing costs etc, making more of the buyer market enthusiasts, then spec will come into it.

It should come into it regardless. I think that anyone who buys a car with the minimum spec possible is either an idiot, or can't afford a proper one.

I guess that makes me a poor idiot then.

 

[not normal dan]

I guess that makes me a poor idiot then.

Me too I guess, mind you I've got any extra 1000 quid in me pocket for riding around with boggo seats an standard sports suspension for 8 months. I know what I'd rather have, oh well at least its gone now an I don't have to hide my face at cs meets for driving a "s**t" sport lmao

 

[alanc1000]

Exactly my point. If these people no longer buy them due to increasing costs etc, making more of the buyer market enthusiasts, then spec will come into it.

It should come into it regardless. I think that anyone who buys a car with the minimum spec possible is either an idiot, or can't afford a proper one.

172 cup anybody?

Thats the most stupid thing i've read on this forum in at least an hour.

 

[gez 172]

That's retarded.

 

[gez 172]

I've bought a 200, I'd say I'm a Renaultsport fan.

I owned a 172 before it and knew every ssingle bolt around the car from tuning/ upgrading and fixing it.

Im not a committed Renault badge buyer, I buy a car that offers me what I'm looking for.

Loved my 172 and the 200 offered me everything I was looking for and being the best in its category.

Ill probably keep it for 2 years then look for something more raw and powerful when insurance allows.

Lotus exige S is probably on the cards.

 

[200 Alex]

I've driven a 200 with recaros and mine without.

The recaros only hold you in slightly better at the leg. But that may be because I'm a slim guy.

I guess it's each to their own with spec on these. Just get one with what you want on it!

 

[Knuckles]

Im with Alanc and to define enhtusiast or not I would wager that there will be more people who refer to it as "my car" or "my clio" rather than "my 200" or "my 197" thats a crude but relatively effective way to tell, lol

You can spot the real 200 nerds as when talking about what they drive they will say "200 Silverstone #44" or something like that.



Seriously though, I should imagine most people buying them are into "sporty little cars" rather than specifically being renault obsessed.

See it all the time when you look at the trade ins before and after and its a Corsa VXR or a Focus ST etc, ie they like those sort of cars, but not too fussed about one specific brand

I change what I call it depending on who asks;

'normal'/people not interested in cars - 'I drive a yellow clio'

People interested in cars get 'I drive a yellow clio 197/ 197 (get either depending on how into cars they are)

Cs gays get 'my liquid yellow r27'

 

[Knuckles]

172 cup anybody?

Thats the most stupid thing i've read on this forum in at least an hour.

I think Rob is talking about enthusiasts who know what they're buying rather than average joe walking into a dealer saying 'i want that car, the £16k model... £1k!? Ooh no thanks, that's too much for something I won't use'

If I were to buy a new car I'd go apeshit on the option list like Christopher.

... Lol at ' in at least an hour'

 

[theduck]

I had a 197 cup, have driven non cupped 197, and both cupped and non cup 200, and now own a ph1. My favourite daily out the lot is the ph1.

The 197 cup is too firm compare to the 197 which perfectly capable.

The 200 cup(pack) is firmer than the 197 cup and so worse from that point of view but the racks a nice touch. The 200 non cup is softer but still very capable.

The reason I prefer the ph1 is because it's lighter and got more torque. I commute 25miles each way every day and do business miles around town on top and for me for the reasons above its just nicer to own. If I did a shorter commute and no business mileage is have a non cupped 197 with standard seats a cup spoiler.

 

[Brett]

If there was no market for the options on 200's, they wouldn't off them as part of a build. Simple really.

That's the reason Alien Green and Storm Grey were canned for 2012. No orders, no point.

Personally, I really wanted my car to be 'my spec' and it feels a lot more special for it.

Also, spec will and does affect resale. When I sell my car, it'll will sell quicker than a boggo 200 because of the big spec. Guaranteed.

...that and the fact I pamper my cars.

I'd like to buy a car off you Chris. Can't think of many who look after them more than you.

 

[RDH]

172 cup anybody?

Thats the most stupid thing i've read on this forum in at least an hour.

More stupid than your post? A 172 Cup is meant to have nothing on it, to save weight. That is like moaning and F430 Scuderia doesn't have sat nav.

I'm more relating to somebody who would walk into Renault now and buy a 200 with crap wheels/seats etc. Why anyone would is beyond me. You'd either have to have no interest in the car you are buying or you can't afford the options. Simples.

 

[RDH]

Me too I guess, mind you I've got any extra 1000 quid in me pocket for riding around with boggo seats an standard sports suspension for 8 months. I know what I'd rather have, oh well at least its gone now an I don't have to hide my face at cs meets for driving a "s**t" sport lmao

I'd rather spend the money on a desirable car.

I don't know why you are so offended, it is only my opinion. It has been proven in this very thread that people buy cars with a poor spec. I'm just not one of them.

 

[Gally]

Mental thread. I think cost is a tinybpart of this. I wouldn't spec'd Recaros expecting 1k extra come resale. The fact is priced at the same as a none spec'd car the recaros or cup packed car will sell much much quicker. If it's more expensive then of course it comes down to other factors.

I wish I could find the last thread we discussed this.

 

[Knuckles]

It's weird, I was thinking a similar thing the past couple of days;

When I see beamers etc getting up my arse and flying past me on the motorway with their 318 powah I can't help but think, if I was to buy one, I'd wait until I had the money to buy a decent 3.0l with all the mod cons.

If I had just enough money to buy a pov spec car I wouldn't even bother, i'd much rather hold out for a hero spec car

 

[not normal dan]

It's weird, I was thinking a similar thing the past couple of days;

When I see beamers etc getting up my arse and flying past me on the motorway with their 318 powah I can't help but think, if I was to buy one, I'd wait until I had the money to buy a decent 3.0l with all the mod cons.

If I had just enough money to buy a pov spec car I wouldn't even bother, i'd much rather hold out for a hero spec car

I can see the point there, me personally I wouldn't have a 3 series bmw unless it was an m3. But do recaro seats make it a hero car? I like the recaros don't get me wrong but as gally said I can't see them adding much when it comes to re sale like alot of members on here seem to think. My old 197 was standard 197 had the c/c an aircon an tbh I enjoyed it it was great, bit of an impulse buy as I went to look at a type r an having looked into it more I would prob have gone for an r27.

 

[Chapppers11]

It's weird, I was thinking a similar thing the past couple of days;

When I see beamers etc getting up my arse and flying past me on the motorway with their 318 powah I can't help but think, if I was to buy one, I'd wait until I had the money to buy a decent 3.0l with all the mod cons.

If I had just enough money to buy a pov spec car I wouldn't even bother, i'd much rather hold out for a hero spec car

Couldn't agree more, that's what I do with all things.

Going to do it with an iPad next month when I can justify the outlay for top spec.

 

[MarkCup]

You'd either have to have no interest in the car you are buying or you can't afford the options.

You're wrong, if I were buying new, and it was to be a 200, I would buy zero options.

But having said that, I'm not a car enthusiast, I'm a driving enthusiast so maybe you are right.

 

[RDH]

You're wrong, if I were buying new, and it was to be a 200, I would buy zero options.

But having said that, I'm not a car enthusiast, I'm a driving enthusiast so maybe you are right.

Suppose it all comes down to opinion again. For me to enjoy the car fully, I'd probably need the Recaros/speedlines/cup suspension etc. a balance of good to drive and something that pleases me aesthetically.

For you to enjoy the car you clearly don't need and of those, which is fine. But come resale, it will affect it. Whether it be the length of time to sell or resale value etc, the spec on the car will play a part.

 

[philmots]

The 200 cup(pack) is firmer than the 197 cup and so worse from that point of view but the racks a nice touch. The 200 non cup is softer but still very capable.

IIRC the 197 Cup was the firmest of the lot. The 200 Cup was a chunk softer than the 197 Cup.