197 OR Focus ST

[riddzz]

had a clio 172 and then went for the st.Have had the st from may this year and with a few mods is now running 300 bhp/370 tq.
its not a cheap car to run unless you go on the motorway and stick to 60 in 6th,your gona see below 20 mpg,[22/23 on a non modified car] quite alot of the time,as standard cars prob not a lot in it.the 197 would prob be a more fun car,but with the st 300-400 quid will get you 250 ish bhp,you can also get the Eibach's for it 150 fitted.the end of the day you need to try both cars!
[my 172 had 180 ish bhp on cams,roll cage,batt in the boot the lot,fast little car and is now in the hands of the "barron"]
i got the st,could of had a 197 but new i would modify what ever i got so went for the st! the st is so good i dont miss the 172
What ever you get it will be a good car!!

cheers
matt

 

[alanc1000]

as TTIUWP i thought i'd add a couple so you could look at them as you ponder which is better..

 

[Ad]

Isnt the diff on the RS a problem child as well for being a pick on non smooth/wet surfaces i.e. pulling all over the shot. I hear some are better than others

Is the ST much more expensive to run that the Clio?

Fuel is the main seperating point. Although the 197 seems to drink more than the 1*2s.

Even on focusstoc.com some seem to get good MPG other seems to struggle its strange. The remap helps the fuel economy quite a bit bizarrely.

I think 330 - 350 off a tank is reasonable. I can get it down to around 250 if I hammer a lot, but still consider it overall to be decent economy.

I have to be honest I still love renaults, but I refuse to ever pay more than 10k for a renault, my brand new 172/225 was just a horrific ownership. The best renault I had was my 182 and it got nicked. The dealers are shocking and build quality is just too variable. I just got the point were I had had enough.

Back in may when a bought the ST both R27 and R26s where hovering around the 14k mark minimum. I paid substantially less for the ST.

 

[Ad]

had a clio 172 and then went for the st.Have had the st from may this year and with a few mods is now running 300 bhp/370 tq.
its not a cheap car to run unless you go on the motorway and stick to 60 in 6th,your gona see below 20 mpg,[22/23 on a non modified car]

cheers
matt

What mods you got on the ST to get to 300?

As above I see 30mpg and drive everyday on the motorway and cruise at 80-90.

55 litre tank - I see around 330 off 50 litres= circa 30mpg.
even at 300miles a tank thats 27.5 mph

Your telling me you are seeing less220 miles of a tank? Even on the NW run I was miles above that!

 

[Neil G]

197 is a beauty of a hatchback, even more so compared to the ST

Can't deny the tuning potential of the Ford though, if that's your thing then it's the car to go for

 

[riddzz]

stage 3+ bluefin,code red intercooler and cais,exhaust 3 inch all the way from downpipe. if i do motorway miles can get over 25 mpg but the norm is around 20 mpg

 

[The Hoff]

Seems to me you've picked two odd cars to shortlist given your usage. Personally i'd be looking at a Leon FR, or a 330D. Much higher MPG, much better cruisers and still good fun.

 

[chris_p]

I would go for the St all day, imo it's in a different league.

Pros for the 197 - more chuckable, better mpg

ST pros - much better mile muncher on the motorway, loads of torque, built far better, huge tuning potential, looks (imo), shouldn't depreciate as badly.

I'll be honest, I'm really not a fan of the 197, but the ST does seem better suited to you. The only real negative is the mpg, you need to work out if you can afford the running costs at the end of the day.

Don't forget, there's plenty of other cars out there! Corsa/Astra vxr, leon cupra R, Golf gti/R32, R26, etc.

Personally, if you're on the motorway most of the time, I'd get a performance diesel. With a remap, most of them would be able to see off cars such as the 197 without breaking too much of a sweat whilst maintaining fantastic mpg....something to think about anyway.

 

[coatesy]

i would choose both astra vxr and megane r26 before these cars

 

[alanc1000]

I would go for the St all day, imo it's in a different league.

Pros for the 197 - more chuckable, better mpg

ST pros - much better mile muncher on the motorway, loads of torque, built far better, huge tuning potential, looks (imo), shouldn't depreciate as badly.

I'll be honest, I'm really not a fan of the 197, but the ST does seem better suited to you. The only real negative is the mpg, you need to work out if you can afford the running costs at the end of the day.

Don't forget, there's plenty of other cars out there! Corsa/Astra vxr, leon cupra R, Golf gti/R32, R26, etc.

Personally, if you're on the motorway most of the time, I'd get a performance diesel. With a remap, most of them would be able to see off cars such as the 197 without breaking too much of a sweat whilst maintaining fantastic mpg....something to think about anyway.

i'm not too sure these are acurate, in fact they aren't. I'd say they were both as bad or as good as each other in these regards. There is nothing shoddy about the build of the 197s, its massively improved over the 182s.

The OPs criterea is MPG and motorway driving, so i doubt he's looking at tunability. I agree with others that he's looking at the wrong cars really, there are a whole load of others that are going to be more suitable.

 

[Scott™]

Motorway driving, find your self a nice S3.

 

[Ad]

i'm not too sure these are acurate, in fact they aren't. I'd say they were both as bad or as good as each other in these regards. There is nothing shoddy about the build of the 197s, its massively improved over the 182s.

The OPs criterea is MPG and motorway driving, so i doubt he's looking at tunability. I agree with others that he's looking at the wrong cars really, there are a whole load of others that are going to be more suitable.

I have to disagree, whilst the 197 is better built than the 1*2 the focus is still better built and considerabley better built imho.

He maybe looking at the wrong cars, but then they were the same cars I was looking at with similar requirements. Make no bones about it, I love the R27. But build and ride quality, combined with some stories of poor mpg, swung it in the STs favour.

I would have either of the above before the VXRs for sure.

 

[alanc1000]

i think its all about a compromise, you cant really have a purebred sports car that is going to tick all the boxes, plus have ecomony on your side, unless you go for a deisel sport of some kind. A 330d would be nice for the motorway!

 

[mcphee197]

A diesel! - oh my oh my. Since the dawn of time they have been boring.

Its very satisfying seeing the needle the rev needle in a hot hatch hit 7 and 8rpm and listening to the engine and exhaust noise and the car is still pulling.

In a diesel you hear a caveman chewing on coal and the power dies after around 5k rpm. You have to pray you stay with a petrol equivalent long enough in 1st and 2nd so you can get to the real pulling power at midrange 3rd gear.

For a motorway bore drive then great, they return economy and comfort and easy cruising. For the times you want to grab it by the scruff of the neck and give it a good spanking you will be left bored frankly, unless you spend big bucks obviously.

 

[RobHardyUK]

Motorway driving, find your self a nice S3.

Because the S3s are in the same price range obvisouly :S

 

[Ad]

i think its all about a compromise, you cant really have a purebred sports car that is going to tick all the boxes, plus have ecomony on your side, unless you go for a deisel sport of some kind. A 330d would be nice for the motorway!

100% agree, if build and comfort (and used vfm) didnt come into it, I would probably gone for the R27.

I didnt want a diesel and I didnt want something just for the commute.

As above we talking 10k more for an S3.

As for engine noise, the 5 cyclinder burble and the pop of the exhaust (with an aftermarket) on the ST is stunning, whilst maintaining you ear drums. It has a really powerful tone to it which even the most car ignorant people know they are in something of note.

 

[Pete80]

Focus ST would be my choice.............

 

[alanc1000]

JD power survey results 2007 (cant find 2008)

Ford Focus (all models 2005 on)
Mechanical relaibility - average
interior quaility - average
exterior quality - above average
ownership costs - average
dealer service - average

overall 78.5%

 

[gaz44]

Focus is okay, not in Orange. The 197 is a nice car too but they are pretty different in most respects. It really depends on what you are looking for. 197 for me!

 

[alanc1000]

^^^ and the clio 2006 on..

Mechanical reliability - above average
interior quality - average
exterior quality - average
vehicle interior - average
vehicle exterior - average
ownership costs - average
dealer service - average

overall 78.7%

The clio wins.

 

[tjhmortimer]

Ok, feel as though I need to clarify a few things after reading your comments so far!!!

I already have a diesel, its a 150PS Astra SRI, which I hoped would give me a good compromise between performance and economy. The thing is, it just is NOT me!! Yeah, its ok on the motorway but the steering is so false and I dont get the enjoyment from it that I require in a car. I had a 197 last year for 6 months and I loved it, really wish I hadnt swapped to be honest but I had a bad one with gearbox and clutch issues!!

The thing is, if there's one thing I consider a 'good' waste of money its a good driving car, and whilst im not in the market just yet for a T350 or RS4 I still want something that I can be the slightest bit passionate about. Something I want to clean when its dirty and enjoy on weekends.

I would also NEVER buy a BMW (make exception for an original 850i), I hate the image/usual driver attitude.

So..... it does still really come down to Focus ST or another 197. Im not massively interested in the Megane and I test drove a Mk5 Golf today which im still undecided on!!

 

[Ad]

JD power survey results 2007 (cant find 2008)

Ford Focus (all models 2005 on)
Mechanical relaibility - average
interior quaility - average
exterior quality - above average
ownership costs - average
dealer service - average

overall 78.5%

^^^ and the clio 2006 on..

Mechanical reliability - above average
interior quality - average
exterior quality - average
vehicle interior - average
vehicle exterior - average
ownership costs - average
dealer service - average

overall 78.7%

The clio wins.

owners make allowances for a renault to break.... tbh the realiaty of owning both tells a hugely differenct story.

Think of it along the lines of, people expect to wait to longer in KFC so dont mind waiting, where as in McDs they expect instant service, when they dont recieve it they are hugely disappointed. Also the focus sells are far larger number of units, there fore more opportunites to go wrong. People who respond to survey suchs as JD are generally at either end of spectrum.

Your telling me the drivetrain from a Volvo is only of average reliability?? b****cks!

 

[The Hoff]

Personally I'd never look to own another Renault, after having 3 of them, certainly not whilst under warranty. Their aftersales service, and general attitude towards it's customers is utterly disappointing. It's especially apparent when you need any work doing under warranty, and the fact I literally couldn't rest when they had my car, as I knew they'd be another scratch on it's return.

At the time of buying I really didn't care too much, as I used to get a local mechanic to work on it, but now living in London and not knowing who is/isn't to be trusted I'm back to handing it to a dealer.

To be fair to Ford they've seemingly been spot on with my step-dad who is now on his second Focus, it's had an issue with the O2 sensor/Lambda of some description, everytime they've took it in and replaced the parts with no drama, or quibbling about warranty repairs. In fact on the last car, they even carried out some warranty work when it was out of warranty...

Retards doesn't really describe my Reanult experience fully enough.

 

[alanc1000]

owners make allowances for a renault to break.... tbh the realiaty of owning both tells a hugely differenct story.

Think of it along the lines of, people expect to wait to longer in KFC so dont mind waiting, where as in McDs they expect instant service, when they dont recieve it they are hugely disappointed. Also the focus sells are far larger number of units, there fore more opportunites to go wrong. People who respond to survey suchs as JD are generally at either end of spectrum.

Your telling me the drivetrain from a Volvo is only of average reliability?? b****cks!

The results don't lie. The fact is the PROPORTION of clio owners are more satisfied than the Focus owners, its in black and white, its indisputable :rasp:

Its time to realise you can't judge Renault purely on older models - their quality has moved on, and this quality can be found on the 197.

Fact.

 

[Ad]

My 225 was an 05 plate.

The brand new 197 was an 08 plate with less than 100 miles on the clock with a rattling door card. Thanks but no thanks

 

[paul g]

lol at all the old clio owners choosing a st over 197,

 

[Ad]

lol at all the old clio owners choosing a st over 197,

current clio owner my son!

 

[paul g]

ok not all then,

 

[Michael172]

I would go for a 197. But thats because i hate Fords with a passion.

 

[Needster]

i would choose both astra vxr and megane r26 before these cars

but he's not asking about a vxr or a r26. hence the title.

fella. if you're looking to buy get out there and try them both. walk in and find the youngest looking salesperson you can and get a test drive - they'll expect you to throw them round corners and give them a blast up your nearest dually. it's the rules. imo i'd always choose a 197. but only you know what you like, and basically everyone elses opinion means jack s**t so don't let it sway your choice (clio. clio. clio - lol). regardless of which you choose, if you like it, buy it.