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197 Owner to get a 172 Cup...



When I purchased my 197, I wanted a good, quick little go-kart for a hobby car. Now, don't get me wrong, I love the 197, but following many meetings and runs against/with 172s/182s there's nothing in it around the twisties.

Following these meets, I thought about it long and hard and even made a thread on the 197 forum regarding my thoughts. But, I held off for a while and put it on the back burner. Then on May the 1st at a track day, mharvey let me drive his 172 Cup.

It felt more direct, more thorough and most of all - faster! It actually was like a go-kart!

And so, I was sold.

Originally and ultimately, my goal was to strip the 197 when I had cleared the finance, but I don't think I can wait for three years. Additionally, I had reservations over all the optional extras my car has and getting around them when stripping it out.

Another massive factor here is that 197's weigh so much and after all that stripping and hard work, I'd still be heavier than a FF 182.

So I thought about a 182 and changing the rear bumper/exhaust because I want more of a sleeper look and I don't like the look of the 182 rear ends.

However, even they're heavier than a 172 Cup! I figured that once I had stripped the 182 it would only weigh the same as a standard 172 Cup. So I figured I would start at the 172 Cup and take that down from there.

Finally, making a 172 a little track car is going to be loads cheaper than doing it on my 197.

I will not be buying until Christmas-ish, because I want to get 1 years NCB but I cannot wait already! I am already buying parts for my new car and plan on returning the 197 back to standard to become a daily runner after Christmas.

Just thought I would share that – in case anyone had anything they could add to help me. Like, whether it is actually worth getting a 182 over a 172, etc.

Here's my research for anyone who is interested:

7164393998_54c9a48d43_o.png

Power to Weight Table by Tom Cash, on Flickr

I added the Type R for someone at work and for reference.

I got the majority of the weights from Parkers and some others from here.

Feel free to correct me where I am wrong.

Thanks for reading.
 
  430,911,M3,Exige,Wes
Amazes me when people say they are like a Go kart. have people actually driven a go kart!?!?!?!

Clio 172's dont have 172bhp by the way... ;)
 
  120d M Sport
Amazes me when people say they are like a Go kart. have people actually driven a go kart!?!?!?!

Clio 172's dont have 172bhp by the way... ;)

Have to agree with this.

The 172 really doesn't strike me as go-kart like, it's far too roly poly and hefty for that.

Saxo VTS on some decent suspension perhaps...
 
  Megane r26
Have to agree with this.

The 172 really doesn't strike me as go-kart like, it's far too roly poly and hefty for that.

Saxo VTS on some decent suspension perhaps...

My old 172 had terrible body roll as standard, once it was on coilovers it was great. Was easliy on par with me car previous which happened to be a vtr on spax adjustables. Must say as much as people are quick to jump on the bang wagon when it comes to the 197, the 197 out the box is an awesome handling even though its carrying a little more weight.
 

Gaz_

ClioSport Club Member
  Extreme mode
Depends what you want

I had a Cup for around 3 years from 2004, loved every minute. Then got a 197, loved that, sold it for another 172 Cup. Now dont get me wrong they (172 cups) feel way more brutal than any 197/200, however I regretted going back to a MK2. That was mainly because of the interior feel, it feels prehistoric compared to the MK3. That started to grate after a while, so got another 197, couldnt be happier with it. Just think long and hard before you do it ;)!
 
Amazes me when people say they are like a Go kart. have people actually driven a go kart!?!?!?!

Clio 172's dont have 172bhp by the way... ;)


Why did he say what i wanted to say !! (he'll also work out who i am as well soon ;) ) but if i gave you my rotax max on fresh rubber and asked you to complete 10 lap and said we will let you be 3 seconds off a race pace ..... then , tell me when your clio turned in and had so much grip it hurts your ribs and neck and you could not complete 10 laps !!!!!!

please , Like Porkie i had a very quick westfield , almost completely carbon and as stiff as you like with a full cage and that made a clio feel like and Espace and even that didn't handle like a Kart .
 
  172 Cup
Depends what you want

I had a Cup for around 3 years from 2004, loved every minute. Then got a 197, loved that, sold it for another 172 Cup. Now dont get me wrong they (172 cups) feel way more brutal than any 197/200, however I regretted going back to a MK2. That was mainly because of the interior feel, it feels prehistoric compared to the MK3. That started to grate after a while, so got another 197, couldnt be happier with it. Just think long and hard before you do it ;)!

gaz has pretty much summed up what i was going to say, yes cups offer the raw driving experience and are a pleasure when hooning around, but if you are coming from a 197 you may miss the creature comforts of that in time. Both are great cars mind but for slightly different reasons. PS cup ftw lol.
 
Interesting replies. Think people have got to hung up on my go-kart comparison though and missed the point of my thread. :p Other than that, cheers for the positive input fellas.

Amazes me when people say they are like a Go kart. have people actually driven a go kart!?!?!?!
Small, nimble, pokie, direct? Most suitable adjectives I can think of at present. :/ So it's literally nothing like a go-kart, but I think it's as close to a go-kart as you're going to get for a road car TBH.

What makes the 182 is 65kgs heavier than the 172?
Air con and a few other creature comforts, I believe.

Don't do it Tom, Get driver training instead on track!!
Lol, that's a fair comment but I can't bring myself to track my 197 so much...
 

hazkirby

ClioSport Club Member
  Clio 182 FF Arctic B
Sorry to be picky but you have some of the stats wrong, here are the correct stats:

Clio 182: 1090KG
Clio 182 Cup: 1070KG
Clio 172: 1100KG

The standard Clio 172 weighs more because of the spare wheel and it's compartment.

:)
 
  Suzuki Swift Sport
Interesting replies. Think people have got to hung up on my go-kart comparison though and missed the point of my thread. :p Other than that, cheers for the positive input fellas.


Small, nimble, pokie, direct? Most suitable adjectives I can think of at present. :/ So it's literally nothing like a go-kart, but I think it's as close to a go-kart as you're going to get for a road car TBH.


Air con and a few other creature comforts, I believe.


Lol, that's a fair comment but I can't bring myself to track my 197 so much...

Why not? The 197s are so much fun on track, I took mine a few times and thought it was perfect for the job.

I agree with what you are saying with the 172 though, a great car, just I wouldn't sacrifice a 197 for one unless I had to financially (assuming you are going to use it on the road too)
 
  Evo 5 RS
Sorry to be picky but you have some of the stats wrong, here are the correct stats:

Clio 182: 1090KG
Clio 182 Cup: 1070KG
Clio 172: 1100KG

The standard Clio 172 weighs more because of the spare wheel and it's compartment.

:)

I take it that obviously doesn't include the earlier mk2s with the ally bonnets. Ph1s are the lightest out of the mk2s, i'm fairly certain they're actually lighter than the cups at curb weight.
 
A wheel is never 20kg?!?!?!?!?!?!!!! That's a bag of potatoes or just under half the weight of my missus! No way.

I'd love to know where everyone gets these numbers from... I'm starting to think there's a monkey in a box with some dice somewhere...
 

MarkCup

ClioSport Club Member
Weighed a wheel from my 172 Cup and it was 17-18 kgs from memory.

As for weights, I think the 'published' figures from Renault are;

Phase 1 = 1,035 kgs.
172 Cup = 1,021 kgs.
 
Your missus is anorexic then.
An f1 with a 195 50 15 tyre is around 17-17.5kg. If you remove this you may aswell remove the jack etc with the round tool holder. there you go - 20kg.
 

Daz.

ClioSport Club Member
  Clio 200 RS EDC
Didn't realise the 265 weighed more than the 225's.

Ooo I'm happy now just worked out my power to weight with the remap :)
 

Flat Eric

Sing Hosanna!!
ClioSport Club Member
  F31 35d, Berlingo Na
Good chart though Tom. I would get a 172 cup if you can deffo. Strip it out etc. any chance you could keep the 197 too?
 
  PB Clio 172
this thread is a good read but I have seen and read lots of people like you go from the 197/200 back too the 1*2. I don't understand the 197 I think they took the fun out of the va va voom Renaultsport Clio 1*2.
 

Flat Eric

Sing Hosanna!!
ClioSport Club Member
  F31 35d, Berlingo Na
^^^^ got to agree. When I test drove a 197 before, don't get me wrong it was good but It didn't feel as great as a 1*2.
I love the looks of 197's and 200's but I just think the 1*2's are great cars.
 

mharvey

ClioSport Club Member
+1 when driving Tom's on the track it was lovely, and if I was doing more commuting I'd consider one for the creature comforts but as my main use of the car is as a bit of fun and a hobby the 172 cup suits me so much better. I think Tom's after the same sort of thing.

Most people here have commented on the lack of comforts but that's what Tom seems to want from his original post.
 

Flat Eric

Sing Hosanna!!
ClioSport Club Member
  F31 35d, Berlingo Na
I also find seating position in 197's to be high up? Thats how I felt anyway.

A stripped out cup round a track is epic I think
 
I had my 172 cup weighed today it was 1081 with me inside (56kg) and half a tank of fuel and no rear seats.

Also the 200 (never driven a 197) is epic and great fun around a track in standard form. It's so much more civilised then my 172 cup on a day to day basis.
 
  Evo 8 MR
Mine weighed 991kgs. :)

(stripped out rear, bucket seats and harnesses, over 1/2 tank of fuel)
 


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