197 wont start just turns over.

[dombooth197]

hi hope some one can help. i got in the car today at 8am and drove to work all was fine. I parked up at work and tried to start it at 10am and nothing it just turns over but wont start. i have tried it on and off all day checked all the fuses i know of and still the same. i have now removed the battery to charge overnight and hoping this will reset the ecu's and maybe will work.

i was wondering if anyone had any idea and if anyone knew the location of the fuel cut that fires in accidents in case this has tripped out for some reason.

thanks and hope someone has some ideas.

 

[dombooth197]

a little update i refitted the battery and the car started but with lots of warning lights, service, STOP, abs, esp and hand brake lights on also on the message screen it shows esp desactivated and the braking fault. it was driving with all these faults on so i too it home and then this morning exactly the same problem it wouldnt start even with a booster pack. it is now in renault and they are saying it needs a fuel pump and new spark plugs. does this sound right as sounds a little suspect to me.

 

[Beasley Clio182]

:S sounds suspect but if thats what renault say , key thing is to ask if it will definitely fix it, if it happens again you can complain saying they said it would fix it and it hasnt ! i cant see how the fuel pump would be affected by charging the battery, even if it reverts back to ecu standard settings , and if the plugs are fouled yes, but again makes no difference swap the battery ?
Im a mechanic and to me it sound more like a immobiliser fault to me !

 

[Scottie203]

how many miles has it done? the plugs are long life and should be good for 60,000 miles no problem

 

[Alex H]

What was the charge in the battery like when it wouldn't start? Could it have drained overnight? Have you checked the earthing straps for a loose connection? They're all the things I'd be checking first. Get the car back from Renault before they change things (fuel pump) that they don't need to.

 

[dombooth197]

thanks for the replay it has done 49k i must also say i am in germany(in the army), forgot before sorry, i had the recovery out and it wouldnt start with his booster pack on and yesterday it ran fine all day started and turned off quite few times. also the first time it wouldnt start i must have turned it over on at least 10 different occasions and it never struggled at all. so this to me says the battery and alternator are fine. they did say that was all it needed and that the warning light were because the battery has been off overnight. all i can do is see if its sorted and if not refuse to pay for the pump and plugs as that obviously wasnt the problem.

 

[MicKPM]

If the vehicle is spinning over when the button is pressed then that rules out the imob.

It could indeed be a lack of fuel pressure as the MkIII is becoming common for pump problems but I'd personally want an independent/second opinion. It could be something as simple as a crank or cam sensor synchronisation issue to.

Had one today doing just that

Mick

 

[dombooth197]

i have been having a think and maybe it was my fault if it is the pump as i have ran it in the red on fuel gauge a couple of times recently. i have a issue with getting a second independent opinion as i am in germany and dont know the local garages if there even is any. is it right that the abs light and esp light would come on if the battery is off overnight i am just a little worried they are going to do all the work then tell me it still isnt working and have to pay for another part.

 

[MicKPM]

They normally come on after a flat/disconnected battery yes. They should vanish after a short drive over 10mph

 

[dombooth197]

i drove it home and they were still on. i did connect a handheld diagnostics and that came up with a fault under the abs saying- computer voltage abnormal. when i cleared this fault it was ok until turned it off locked it and then restarted it when they all came back on again. i just hope it doesn't turn out to be a huge money pit until they find the fault. i would like to think that the dealers know what they are doing, just wish there were specialist out here like yourself.

 

[MicKPM]

There are always capable people lurking about but you have to hunt them out.

"Abnormal voltage" suggests to me a fluctuating voltage which would go some way to explaining why you're having problems if it can be proved. A flat battery normally results in a battery "Low voltage" message (In CLIP at least).

 

[dombooth197]

hi quick update i have the car back now and it runs fine and seems better than before. however they were not able to find the fault that is bringing all the lights on (ESP, ABS, SERVICE,STOP, and hand brake warning) i believe this to be a separate problem as they only appeared after i left the battery off overnight.

 

[MicKPM]

So what's been done?

 

[dombooth197]

they said they could find a fault and wanted more time which means more money, so i have the car back and taking it the the Bosch service center for a second opinion.

 

[dombooth197]

i have been to the bosch auto electricians here and they say it is the alternator causing the fault it charges at 14.6 volts but then when the revs increase slightly it goes to 15 volt does this sound right.

 

[MicKPM]

Where have they measured this voltage from?

 

[dombooth197]

it was on the diagnostics machine via the obd plug. i did see it on the machine myself and the fault reader read 'computer voltage abnormal'

 

[MicKPM]

I personally prefer to take actual measurements. I had a Vivaro today showing over 15v at the ABS module on CLIP but Mr Voltmeter showed a nice 14.3v at fast idle on the actual power line.

Don't always believe the computer ;-)

 

[dombooth197]

well i have replaced the alternator today and shows 14.24v at the battery at 4000rpm on the fluke so hopefully will be sorted just need to get the faults removed on monday when the garage opens up. dont know what else it could be as the diagnostics was reading 'computer, abnormal voltage'?

 

[Poopensharten]

Faulty earth strap? Poor terminal connections?

 

[dombooth197]

hope not after all that lol. i checked the earth straps from the battery and they were secure surely there would be other faults if it was a earth strap, guess i will see on monday when i try to clear the faults.

 

[Poopensharten]

I'd take them off and atleast clean them, rules out any foul play and atleast it wont cost you anything..

 

[dombooth197]

will see what happens when i clear the codes on monday fingers crossed

 

[TomsF1]

Big thing with alternators is how much hertz they put out.. Ok it says abnormal voltage but that could be down to a low/ too high hertz output. I don't work on cars so I can't be a 100% on how the ecu works but I work on machines with a similar system and they rely on a 50hz output from the alternator. Thing is you can put a multimeter on the back on the altenator and read 14v wich you'd think yup cool she's charging but if your hz are out you'll get problems. It's just something to think about when you looking at alternators.

 

[dombooth197]

well i have fitted the new alternator and had the faults cleared but as soon as i go over 10mph boom there back on again. i have checked the 2 earth straps and they are secure, its really annoying now and turning into a money pit. anyone ideas bearing in mind these faults appeared only after i left the battery off over night, is there any other fuses or relays i could change or check other that the one under the steering column. please help before i set fire to the bloody thing.

 

[VXR killer]

hertz is for AC mains not DC

 

[VXR killer]

could it be a esp/abs sensor or brake pedal switch?

 

[TomsF1]

hertz is for AC mains not DC

....explain?

 

[lemonnobby]

its not hard to look at a computer and get a code and work from there.

 

[dombooth197]

the code shows 'abnormal computer voltage` as said before and the battery alternator and earthing straps are ok. that is why i dont know where it go next.

 

[MicKPM]

First thing you need to do is clear the lot out and take it for a drive to see if they re-appear. Then if they do you need to fault find on those systems reporting the voltage issues.

Check alternator output (again) and maybe try with the charge link unplugged also. Then test the voltage received at the actual component(s) (physical measurements not via diagnostics). I'd also be inclined to have the battery tested to.

If all is good here and theres no issues with damaged wiring then there may be an issue with the UPC itself but you won't find many bits of kit other than CLIP, AutoLogic and some other top end professional stuff that will interface reliably with that so forget cheap eBay scanners and get it to a proper garage.

 

[lemonnobby]

I argee with mick cos he's the boss. i did wonder if he's blown one of the fuses on the battery.

 

[VXR killer]

car batteries are dc current (direct current) which requires a dc charged, mains voltage ie from power stations to houses and industrial/commercial premises are ac (alternating current) which are at a set frequency which in uk is 50Hz, in industry changing the frequency of the supply to a machine/motor can slow or speed it up (speed control)

abit of useless info for ya.

 

[dombooth197]

well turns out there was, in the german sevice managers words 'a blown fuse/relay in the front of engine area' so no idea where it was exactly but it is now fixed. thank god bloody french

 

[Rhys bain]

Whats happening lads ?
I've got the same problem as above braking fault, abs, esp, handbrake light on
Just jacked car up to get wheels painted dropped her down and all these lights on.
I haven't nipped any wiring or anything tried brake switch and stuff. What fuse in engine could blow to cause this? Hopefully someone can help.

 

[Adam93]

My battery died on me last year, jump started it and all the lights came on, no abs, no power steering etc.... new battery fitted and it cured the problem.... and then a few weeks later one of the fuses blew as i had no working passenger lights (front and rear)