300bhp N/A

[gambit]

The standard throttle body isn't as much of a restriction as the 1*2 inlet manifold. That's the real enemy tbh.

Yeah figured as much, surely a well done port job will cure it?

 

[NorthloopCup]

Yeah figured as much, surely a well done port job will cure it?

Nah it's the plenum that's the issue.

 

[gambit]

Nah it's the plenum that's the issue.

Surely porting the plenum will help? or is it the inherent design and no matter what amount of porting you do it won't help?

 

[Dan]

Surely porting the plenum will help? or is it the inherent design and no matter what amount of porting you do it won't help?

I would say the design is poor for power coming over the engine in that way.

 

[NorthloopCup]

Surely porting the plenum will help? or is it the inherent design and no matter what amount of porting you do it won't help?

It's an inherent fault in the design of the plenum mate. If you cut it open it might be made better with some porting/smoothing but it's never going to be perfect. It's also not designed for ultimate performance either so you have to make compromises along the way.

 

[tom172cup]

Again look at Hondas. There all motor plenums are good for 700hp

 

[McGherkin]

To be honest though, to get to 300bhp you won't be using the standard plenum anyway.

 

[bastardized]

Thanks for all the input guys. I think ill go down the turbo route. 400bhp is my target for turbo. My friend is running 405bhp on a GTI 6. I reckon parts only under 7k to build.

 

[Mistercorn]

Be cheaper to buy an NSX and stuff the engine into a V6 Clio....

....that might even work actually..... @cat171 I need your car.....and an NSX, and The Unit for several weeks....

...and some idea of how mechanical things work

Have you seen the prices of NSXs these days? The engine isn't bad, IMO the 3.2 in the E46 M3 is miles better, but then that wouldn't fit...
Cheaper to use a Honda Legend V6 VTEC engine

MC

 

[Andyman]

It's an inherent fault in the design of the plenum mate. If you cut it open it might be made better with some porting/smoothing but it's never going to be perfect. It's also not designed for ultimate performance either so you have to make compromises along the way.

A good few years ago, think it was on the old forum? there was a forum member on here who went to town at GDI, (ultimate everything), before chargers and turbo's were common place and had the standard plenum cut open and re-worked and from memory only gained a few extra bhp, nothing worth doing for all the work involved.

 

[Goodj]

Have you seen the prices of NSXs these days? The engine isn't bad, IMO the 3.2 in the E46 M3 is miles better, but then that wouldn't fit...
Cheaper to use a Honda Legend V6 VTEC engine :smile:

MC

NSX's are holding their worth, and I wouldn't argue with it.
And I'd rather have the Honda V6 than the M3 engine. I appreciate a lot of it is down to intake and exhaust set-ups but I just think it sounds better.

 

[NorthloopCup]

A good few years ago, think it was on the old forum? there was a forum member on here who went to town at GDI, (ultimate everything), before chargers and turbo's were common place and had the standard plenum cut open and re-worked and from memory only gained a few extra bhp, nothing worth doing for all the work involved.

There's the confirmation then! Thanks for the info. I wouldn't personally bother with all that effort of cutting the plenum open to port it anyway. You'd be better off doing something along the lines of an rs2

 

[ALD]

I cut up a 1*2 manifold to see if there is any gains

I ported it and reshaped the ports and bell mouth etc and the gains were..... None

As said above. RS2 inlet or custom like it.

 

[gambit]

I cut up a 1*2 manifold to see if there is any gains

I ported it and reshaped the ports and bell mouth etc and the gains were..... None

As said above. RS2 inlet or custom like it.

Ah bugger not much hope then for peak power, but how about peak torque, Improved?
How much power should one expect with matched inlets Coupled with ported heads and 438 cams , high comp pistons, rods and balanced crank.
Possible to stroke the f4r even ?

 

[ALD]

The manifolds alone not much if not any
With head work and cams your guaranteed to get power depending on who worked the head and who will be mapping it.

 

[Dan]

Ah bugger not much hope then for peak power, but how about peak torque, Improved?
How much power should one expect with matched inlets Coupled with ported heads and 438 cams , high comp pistons, rods and balanced crank.
Possible to stroke the f4r even ?

An F4R is basically a stroked 1.8 anyway.

I would say your on the way to 210bhp mark with that sorta setup on a good engine with good mapping, matched with ITBs on a good engine your talking 220+ but with a good chunk more torque.

 

[aucky]

I remember TDF talking about ~£30k to build a 280bhp N/A engine for the likes of WTCC.

It was the massive single TB carbon inlet that rolls over towards the oil filter.

Found it:

£36,000 (+VAT) will buy you a 280bhp Super 2000 F4R that comes with this plenum, ECU, Wiring Loom, Airbox and a few other bits. We have enough bits in stock to produce two more and will do a deal on a pair should anyone wish to put something Renault into WTCC :wink:

The thread with the inlet has gone though, i think.

 

[Willo40]

36k for 280bhp?......................:anguished:

 

[ALD]

I built a 300bhp Zetec 10 years ago for half that. 36k is a hell of a lot unless most of the parts were 24 carrot gold?

 

[ian-speedy]

My engine is still on hydraulics and is 242hp , i'm struggling with that power with the quick 2.0ltr cars in my class on some of the fast rallies , I did look at going for more power , but then i'm not getting big gains over what I have , I did even think about fitting a Peugeot 2.0 engine as these can be tuned to close on 300 , but then the box needs changing , and thinking further forward i'd have to go bigger wheels with more rubber on the road , maybe wide arch kit , then bigger brakes and i'd be spending another 25 - 30K on it so didn't go any further
Even the works cars didn't have 300 hp , and neither did the Proton S2000 which uses a 197 engine , they were in the 280's , so if people like that are throwing money at them , we haven't got a chance lol

 

[McGherkin]

Has anyone specified that it has to use pump petrol?

 

[warwickstingray]

The F4R just hasn't got the cylinder head design to be challenging the big guns. Potential valve area when fully modded and the ability to flow that potential and all that.

 

[NorthloopCup]

The F4R just hasn't got the cylinder head design to be challenging the big guns. Potential valve area when fully modded and the ability to flow that potential and all that.

I agree that the 1*2 hasn't got a good cylinder head design, but the 197 head is far superior. In R3 maxi evo spec they produce 250hp - and that's on the oe inlet manifold.
You just need extremely deep pockets to get big hp n/a

 

[warwickstingray]

I agree that the 1*2 hasn't got a good cylinder head design, but the 197 head is far superior. In R3 maxi evo spec they produce 250hp - and that's on the oe inlet manifold.
You just need extremely deep pockets to get big hp n/a

So is a 200 head a worked 197 head? I read Renault claimed some revisions.

Is it a different casting to the 1*2 head to correct the flaws?

How big an inlet valve can you get in the 197 head? Just curious.

I remember some tuners quoting 300bhp from Mi16 engines but at pretty much 10,000rpm and with very regular rebuilds.

 

[NorthloopCup]

So is a 200 head a worked 197 head? I read Renault claimed some revisions.

Is it a different casting to the 1*2 head to correct the flaws?

How big an inlet valve can you get in the 197 head? Just curious.

I remember some tuners quoting 300bhp from Mi16 engines but at pretty much 10,000rpm and with very regular rebuilds.

I've not seen a 200 head mate so I can't comment.

Same casting but different inlet runner cast into the head plus a better designed combustion chamber to reduce shrouding of the valves plus it's fully hemispherical.

I'd say the inlet valve would go plus 1mm, maybe a bit more. Maxi evo does 250hp on the standard inlet valve size.

Mi16 is a good engine tbf, but f**k revving to 10k and rebuilding it every 5 minutes.