500 to 600 hp

[tom172cup]

Im after a list of parts for my new engine build. need advice on what parts and best place to source them from.

so far i have (on the list)

Garret gtx3076 turbo

Tial 40something mm wastegate

Mainifold/Exhaust in 3" tube

powertec valves

k tec oil feed

intercooler of some description

Injectors not sure on size

ARP bolts and studs

That leaves me with
Rods/pistons that will allow 8.5:1 compression ration
complete set of bearings
cams
gaskets

And probably other bits needed that i cant think of at the moment. thanks in advance

 

[The Dominator]

You looking to run 500-600 bhp?

 

[Fred@BTM]

ring Paul@ RSTuning

 

[tom172cup]

shall give him a ring then. planning on this being a home build so need all the help i can get

 

[JamesBryan]

A gearbox/clutch to take that power...

Oh, and a fair wedge of money.

 

[tom172cup]

A gearbox/clutch to take that power...

all thats sorted

 

[The Dominator]

Keeping the nitrous?

 

[tom172cup]

Keeping the nitrous?

yeah keeping that might need it to spool the turbo up lol

 

[The Dominator]

lol EPIC in a word when thats built. what nitrous system do you run?

 

[Chip-mk1]

Im after a list of parts for my new engine build. need advice on what parts and best place to source them from.

so far i have (on the list)

Garret gtx3076 turbo

I am not a fan of these, I would go for a 3071 instead, the 3076 is a bit compressor heavy and a 3071 will still happily do that power output.

Tial 40something mm wastegate

If you are running nitrous like you mentioned before then go big on the W/G

Mainifold/Exhaust in 3" tube

Sounds fine, if you go much past 600bhp you will need 3.5 though.

powertec valves

Never heard of them so cant comment, but ideally you want one piece inlets which can be in something simple like 214N and then you want inconel on the exhaust, ideally one piece but a 2 piece cheap welded futher up the stem than normal like supertechs would be ok.

k tec oil feed

I'd just get something made up to suit once its all bolted onto the engine rather than buying off the shelf stuff that might not suit where you mount the turbo.

intercooler of some description

I would go for a custom one made from the latest garrett cores, they are super efficient so it doesnt need to be massive that way

Injectors not sure on size

You will want 750cc or bigger really, I wouldnt generally go 1000cc for 600bhp just to be on the safe side

ARP bolts and studs

The bolts should come with the rods, but yes I would buy the stud kit for the head, in fact I even used them on my mrs daily I like ARP products so much, plus the standard renault ones are junk that like to fracture the head off when undoing.

That leaves me with
Rods/pistons that will allow 8.5:1 compression ration
complete set of bearings
cams
gaskets

And probably other bits needed that i cant think of at the moment. thanks in advance

8.5:1 sounds ok to me.

I personally would avoid the standard inlet, I dont like the join in the middle that has to keep be broken for getting to the plugs (you will want to get to your plugs often on a 600 horse motor!), it will be a pain keeping it sealing properly with a couple of bar of boost up it.



What gearbox are you using?

 

[Chip-mk1]

ring Paul@ RSTuning

Scoff would be another good person to call who has done it specifically with this engine, although TBH its not really rocket science getting a blown motor to do 250-300bhp per litre anyway really, just a case of having some deep pockets!

 

[The Dominator]

Chip has spoken.... lol

 

[tom172cup]

I have had an email back off scoff about the turbo and he recommends that one for that power as it wont struggle to make that power.
supertechs where what i was thinking off lol. Will look into intercoolers a bit more not researched them yet.
so 750cc upwards on injectors. I have been looking at the 197 inlet and retro fitting it seems to be a reasonable amount of work. but seeing as im going all out then wont be to much of an issue i guess.
Gearbox is an O2M 6speed with an unsprung clutch and associated parts. So should be up to the job

 

[Chip-mk1]

If fitting the 197 inlet, just use a 197 head as well, dont try and fit it to the 172 head.

Interesting that me and Scoff disagree on the GTX3071 vs GTX3076 as from what I have seen we tend to normally agree on most things, but the difference is fairly minimal and both will do the job at the end of the day, I just find the 3076 slightly more laggy without really any gains in power that would be relevant to your build, but its still a good turbo.

 

[tom172cup]

lol EPIC in a word when thats built. what nitrous system do you run?

its the WON street blaster kit 150hp potential run via a max extreme controller. its an awesome bit of kit

 

[Chip-mk1]

its the WON street blaster kit 150hp potential run via a max extreme controller. its an awesome bit of kit

Only takes a tiny mod to the solenoids and you can do more like 250bhp, but thats irrelevant anyway, as even a 100bhp shot on top of that turbo would be completely ridiculous (like 700bhp+ easily)

 

[tom172cup]

If fitting the 197 inlet, just use a 197 head as well, dont try and fit it to the 172 head.

Interesting that me and Scoff disagree on the GTX3071 vs GTX3076 as from what I have seen we tend to normally agree on most things, but the difference is fairly minimal and both will do the job at the end of the day, I just find the 3076 slightly more laggy without really any gains in power that would be relevant to your build, but its still a good turbo.

172 bottom end 197 head and inlet will this not change the compression ratio? was also thinking that because of where the TB comes with the silicone hose its going to be right next to the turbo as im mounting it over the gear box ecu area

 

[NorthloopCup]

If fitting the 197 inlet, just use a 197 head as well, dont try and fit it to the 172 head.

This!! I've modified a 172 head to accept a 197 inlet....................Lot's of work.

 

[Chip-mk1]

172 bottom end 197 head and inlet will this not change the compression ratio?

Yes of course, but you havent bought the pistons yet have you? So just buy them to suit.

was also thinking that because of where the TB comes with the silicone hose its going to be right next to the turbo as im mounting it over the gear box ecu area

Yes that might be an issue, although its very high up so might be alright.

 

[tom172cup]

i guess i could ditch the silicone hose until its clear of the turbo and use some heat shielding on a metal tube. with some flexi joiner type thing to join between tube and TB. this is going to be one epic learning curve

 

[marinemackay2003]

sounds a crazy project, so whats happening to the supercharged engine?

 

[Chip-mk1]

i guess i could ditch the silicone hose until its clear of the turbo and use some heat shielding on a metal tube. with some flexi joiner type thing to join between tube and TB. this is going to be one epic learning curve

TBH mate, worrying about where the pipework goes isnt really the place to concentrate at the moment, you can always get the manifold altered if you have to, but I think you'll be fine anyway.

 

[tom172cup]

sounds a crazy project, so whats happening to the supercharged engine?

that will stay in car for next years racing then the whole lot whipped out and sold to pay off the new engine build

 

[Chip-mk1]

Would be a piece of cake to put a 90 degree bend on that and keep it running up high next to the bonnet then not drop it down till its over where the battery normally sits.

 

[tom172cup]

TBH mate, worrying about where the pipework goes isnt really the place to concentrate at the moment, you can always get the manifold altered if you have to, but I think you'll be fine anyway.

Just trying to work things out at the moment to see what is likely to work or not.

 

[Tutuur]

really curious on how this is going to turn out. wanted to see the Cooksport thing too but it got sold...

i may know someone who has rods and pistons for sale for a good price, also i have a gtx3076 for sale. will send you a PM.

why don't you just make a custom mani? when using a 197 the CR will be even lower so you'll get stuck with finding pistons...

 

[Chip-mk1]

really curious on how this is going to turn out. wanted to see the Cooksport thing too but it got sold...

i may know someone who has rods and pistons for sale for a good price, also i have a gtx3076 for sale. will send you a PM.

why don't you just make a custom mani? when using a 197 the CR will be even lower so you'll get stuck with finding pistons...

If he wants to be about 8.5:1 he wont have a problem, as he will be about right using a 197 head and a set of aftermarket 9:1 F4RT pistons, with a bit of skimming or careful selection of gasket fitness he should have no problem getting to where he wants to be.
I will pull mine apart soon though and CC the head just to get the actual figures though rather than having to say "about" etc.

 

[Chip-mk1]

PS

I do agree that a custom inlet would make a lot of sense though, something along the lines of an RS2 would be ideal.

 

[Tutuur]

well, i know someone (who i brought you in contact with) who has 172 turbo pistons and rods for sale so that might turn out a bit cheaper and easier.

i don't know if the f4rt inlet is a straight fit? it looks a bit restrictive but iirc the rs tuning megane has 511bhp with original inlet...

 

[Chip-mk1]

Those were 8.5:1 when used with a 172 head, they will be far lower when used with a 197 head, you need to pick pistons for a higher CR than you want to end up with if using a bigger chamber head.

 

[The Dominator]

its the WON street blaster kit 150hp potential run via a max extreme controller. its an awesome bit of kit

Are you running this on stock internals at the moment?

 

[domsclio182]

His engine is forged, turbo is a different compression ratio so will need to be done again.

Shame you are not selling your engine now tom, I would off had that. What time are running with the nitrous at the moment mate, you know it still won't be quick enough with 600, once you get power crazed no amount of power is enough.

 

[tom172cup]

His engine is forged, turbo is a different compression ratio so will need to be done again.

Shame you are not selling your engine now tom, I would off had that. What time are running with the nitrous at the moment mate, you know it still won't be quick enough with 600, once you get power crazed no amount of power is enough.

if the money is right you can have it now

its ran a 12.2 with no nitrous should go mid to high 11s with a 50hp shot

 

[tom172cup]

im in two minds regarding the head situation. it all comes down to being as cost effective as possible really. i think i will end up with 197 head and the jenvey plenum or something similar.
Would be good to find out the cc from you chip.

 

[Keyser Soze]

Surely a Clio with that much power will be pretty undriveable?

 

[tom172cup]

Surely a Clio with that much power will be pretty undriveable?

correct but its not a daily so it be fine only going to be used on track

 

[Chip-mk1]

im in two minds regarding the head situation. it all comes down to being as cost effective as possible really. i think i will end up with 197 head and the jenvey plenum or something similar.
Would be good to find out the cc from you chip.

If you have the 197 head you may as well use the 197 inlet surely? If you are going jenvey plenum you could use the 172 head anyway.

 

[Chip-mk1]

correct but its not a daily so it be fine only going to be used on track

Do you mean a track or a drag strip?

Cause TBH even on track you wont use that power very usefully.

Drag strip is about the only place for it, and even then you probably need to be on drag tyres to make it work well.

 

[BIGASH]

i think i will end up with 197 head and the jenvey plenum

Jenvey plenum won’t fit on the 197 head will it?

 

[Chip-mk1]

Jenvey plenum won’t fit on the 197 head will it?

The plenum arrangement is modular, so any head you can get a base manifold for, you can get the plenum to fit, so just a case of finding out if they do a base manifold for that head.