ClioSport.net

Register a free account today to become a member!
Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

ABS- Good or Bad





I personally think its a life saver, in my case twice lol

I consider myself a good driver, im only 18 but have been involved in motorsport since i was 9 and have been driving since i was 12. I have been fortunate to of driven and raced some fantastic cars but i personally believe a modern car should have ABS. I think renault should of kept it on the cup ( i know it was cos it was supposed to be like a racer) as it doesnt matter how good you are, its how good other drivers are. How many times has a blonde cow, or old bloke in a flat cap made a stupid manouvere in front of you where youve had to brake without having time to think?

Many enthusiasts claim abs doesnt let you have full control but i believe if you drive (or brake in this case) properly you shouldnt need the abs to cut in anyway!

Im interested to see peoples side to the story, especially cup owners!
 

KDF

  Audi TT Stronic


How can ABS be a bad thing, other than if you wanted to turn it off for a bit of fun on a track ?

Its one of thee biggest advances in motoring safety IMHO
 
  Renault Laguna Coupe


If you go to one of the Driving Academy days (a few of us did one earlier this year) youll be taught exactly how to use the ABS. Really opened my eyes to what it can do!
 
  clio 20v


imho= in my honest opinion

depends how good it is on modern cars its great but i had an old car with abs and it was poo-pants ended up taking the fuse out cos it activated wen it felt like and took an age to work

i replaced loads of abs stuff too cos it kept falling to bits and needed it to pass mot neva worked proper i really could brake lots better than it

adi
 


ABS should be used in racing cars too.... have you ever been going round a roundabout flat out and needed to brake?? Braking and steering becomes possible with ABS...
 


it is obviously a safety enhancement - but its not something that I think anybody should come to depend on - this car is the first car I have ever owned with ABS (and I have been driving a long time!!) and in my opinion ABS does not and should not take the place of a driver being capable of driving without it - i.e. safe and proper driving!
 


I did my test in a non abs car... and have driven thousands of miles as a field engineer in a non abs car..... and with abs i can push cars harder
 


Because how ever much i try to pump the brakes as fast as i can it still locks up for that few seconds....... With ABS its f**king quick and stops the car plus you can also steer which can come in handy racing on roads while braking
 


You shouldnt be braking round corners!!

To go as fast as possible you should be braking and changing down in a straight line and accelerating through..
 


Yes i know that but im not on a race track am i.... normally thats what i do but something can always happen when you need to brake!
 
  clio 20v


abs enables you too steer round an obstacle wen braking in a straight line something you cant do wen locked up, it cant however stop you swapping ends when braking into corners

i think a lot of drivers could brake as well as or better than abs by feeling when you are going to lose grip and varying pressure on the pedal but on the road its a lifesaver when someone pulls out on you when your not expecting it and you can just bang the middle pedal and not skid

my valver hasnt got abs though and i can live without it

adi
 


I dont have ABS and on 1 occasion I really needed it. But I didnt and I went straight into what I was trying to avoid. ABS would have enabled me to go onto the other side of the road. Instead I locked up and I kept hearing my driving instructors voice saying "when you lock up take your foot off the brake and reaply it" I thought b****cks to that, this thing is getting bigger in my view. So i pressed harder and closed one eye. In then end it wasnt all that bad. Bad enough it cost over 1k to repaire, but it wasnt really life threatening.

In my opinion, if you have to put your brakes on hard enough that they are locking up, then you need all the help you can get, so ABS for me on my next car is a big must.



Paul
 


Its does make driving on normal roads easier... Even if you approach a roundabout to fast with maybe ice on the road... You know if you just press that brake pedal the computer will do its best to stop you....
 


ABS is rubbish - changes the whole driving experience and locks up the car in bad wetaher when u dont want it to - theres no substitute for good driving - I dont need computers to override my own ability to stop my own car! 3 Pedals, a steering wheel, point steer and brake..............The majority of the best cars in the history of motorsport/car sport didnt have ABS - its a substitute for poor driving capability same as traction control, ESC - learn to walk before you try and run. Same as fitting every performance mod to your car before youve even bought it - sure it may help your car but whats the point if you didnt learn to handle its in incapabilities first! Ive used ABS and now dont because it didnt come with ABS - motorsport dont use it and fir enough our public highway is not a race track but the same basic principles apply - if u havent experienced a non ABS fitted car I highly recommend it Ive been driving 10 years and havent have any sort of accident yet ABS or no ABS but in my opinion ABS has a better feel and balanced braking is so much easier and controllable
 
  H22A7 Accord Type R


Paul (DTWD) i kno what u mean, i had an incident with my comoany van, locked up, paniced, pressed harder and went straight on up a kerb, nakered bottom of the engine, oli everywhere etc. Nothing would make me lift my foot off that pedal! Had i lifted, i prob would have made it lol!!! reminds us that we are only average drivers at end of day! ABS was a must for me on my next car, and the Clio has it as standard.............ah............happy! im pretty sure the CPU can brake quicker than i could lol!! in a real emergency, when U just anchor all on, its good to know its there
 


Hey even F1 drivers do it R3OBC!!! They wont have ABS in motorsport because people would push the cars more luss in turn it would be more dangerous. It just seems everytime I have had an ABS car I have managed to use it and saved the car. One time I was on motorway it had just stopped raining hard and there was a massive puddle on the fast lane. People went through it and I could not see anything apart from brake lights.. Slammed on mine aqua plained a little with ABS trying to stop me and just managed to stop before slamming the car in front.... You dont have situations on race tracks like that AND you dont care as its not your own pride and joy on the track!
 

KDF

  Audi TT Stronic


Quote: Originally posted by CUPSIZE? on 12 December 2002ABS is rubbish - changes the whole driving experience and locks up the car in bad wetaher when u dont want it to - theres no substitute for good driving - I dont need computers to override my own ability to stop my own car! 3 Pedals, a steering wheel, point steer and brake..............The majority of the best cars in the history of motorsport/car sport didnt have ABS - its a substitute for poor driving capability same as traction control, ESC - learn to walk before you try and run. Same as fitting every performance mod to your car before youve even bought it - sure it may help your car but whats the point if you didnt learn to handle its in incapabilities first! Ive used ABS and now dont because it didnt come with ABS - motorsport dont use it and fir enough our public highway is not a race track but the same basic principles apply - if u havent experienced a non ABS fitted car I highly recommend it Ive been driving 10 years and havent have any sort of accident yet ABS or no ABS but in my opinion ABS has a better feel and balanced braking is so much easier and controllable



ABS is not rubbish, In the wet the quickest way to stop the car is pumping the pedal, this causes water which builds up in front of the tyre to be released, stopping the wheel from aqua-planing. I GARANTEE that you cant pump the pedal 12 times a second, which is about average for an ABS system (dependant on the surface).

If you had any idea about ABS you would realise that ABS does NOT lock up the car during bad weather (hence Anti-lock Braking system!!!!), it infact does the opposite. If you apply the break too hard and the wheel locks up the ABS system will take over and release that wheel then re-apply the break until the wheel locks again.

ABS is not a substitute for poor driving, ABS was designed as an enhancement to drivers who may need some extra assistence, like myself who had to break moderatly on the M6 and found my front right wheel taken over by the ABS system. I had hit a patch of oil on the road there was no way I could have forseen this.

Most people fit performance enhancements to there car because they are not happy about a certain aspect of the car, and would like to personolise it to thier preference.

My 172 is the first car I have owned with ABS and have been driving now for 7 years. As stated in my post earlier ABS is one of thee biggest safety enhancements on a car in recent times, almost as big as 3 point seatbelts.
 


I agree strongly with the pro-ABS lobby as well. On a race track or rally ss there are rarely traffic and pedestrians in the road, and ABS can become a liability, particularly on loose surfaces.

However, on the road it is a completely different matter. Driving to work in the rain is a different mindset to driving as fast as possible in a sponsored car at a special stage or on a circuit, we listen to music, are on the phone, look at the scenery, sit and think about pussy or other interesting things when all of a sudden someone in front stands on their brakes or something appear in your path.

This scenario will inevitably lead to a neurological reflex which simply says "BRAKE!!!!!" and WILL trigger a lockup, and possibly an accident, no matter how good you are in your rally or race car when you actually concentrate 110% on your driving.

That, is fact. Racing is racing, road driving is road driving. Boat is boat, fcuk is fcuk...
 
  H22A7 Accord Type R


its always nice to know its backing you up when u slam them on in an emergency! ahh....... ever made some wide-o sh*t themself when the tryin to race u??? anchor on when they r behind u, ya see them sh*t themselves lol............some ppl never learn breaking distances
 


ABS saved my life I reakon, was trying to max out my other Golf Gti on the A3 on the way to Isle of Wight. Road dead straight for a few miles, nowhere for plod to hide, 122 on the clock then tractor pulls out of field. My initial raction was to stand on brake, ABS sorted it, still skidded a bit but scrubbed of enough speed to be able to stear around and not become an addition to the tractor. Probably would have been a different story in my non ABS valver.

Driving the works car to calls now I notice the ABS quite a bit, again when bellends pull out me but more so hard braking while cornering. Its a great bit of kit I say. Its the only thing giving me a dilemma over when it comes to choosing between 172 & Cup.
 


CUPSIZE - your coming at this from the wrong angle, most people drive on the roads with no racing experience and no thought of driving as fast as possible. ABS helps them stop quicker (this point is proven) if they are in conditions that make their wheels lock. It may not be something that is particular helpful on a track, but on road use where you are controlling your car at the same time as being affected by everyone else being in control of their car, it is invaluable and a real step forward in road safety. Anything that didnt work, would not be put on all new cars.
 


Must say in some cases that you really have to use what you have been taught about having to release the brake pedal.

One example that i can recall was in the snow, i had bridgestone potenza S0-2s on at teh time...and i tell ya never again lol!! there was about 5cm of snow and i was just pulling into my close near my home..this was after driving for about an hour, i was quite relieved to get back home! I took a corner slightly faster than usual......my house was in sight!....car began to skid......lampost coming my way....this was about 7mph.......ABS pumping away, no good the car just couldnt steer away!!! I fought my instincts and released the brake pedal...either way the car wasnt slowing anyway so I thought last chance.....it worked car gripped and steered off!!!! mind you this was all within about 1.5seconds!

I went back to see how far i was and there was about 7cm from the lampost.....the front bumper must have been mm away......jees I was relieved...teached me to not brake at all in snow!!!! just keep SSLLLLOOOWWW!!

Having said that ABS has to be a good thing i.e when you have to slam on the anchors at high speed, but sometimes you just cant rely on the technology....driving really does take a lot of experience and being familiar with a lot of different situations!
 

KDF

  Audi TT Stronic


That is common sense though right ? the first rule they teach you in snow and ice is to not be going that fast to get into that situation in the first place.:D
 


As i said i think it doesnt matter how good a driver you are, its the unknown roads and bad drivers amongst. I love the idea of the Clio Cup but i agree with many car journalists that ABS shouldnt of been deleted as at some point something WILL go wrong.

Thats why i think TVR speaks b****cks, they cant be botherd with the development costs of any safety devices and use the classic it takes the driver away from driving, which is rubbish cos a good driver can use his brakes with out ABS needing to intervene.
 


I do think everyone should have a track day in a non abs car though.....

It would help racing drivers if they did have it chogg1000... I thought we all buy cars to drive as fast as possible.... Or everyone would be driving a robine reliant!
 


Im sure it would help sometimes for racing drivers but technique wise, theres no reason to need it, and if you braked mid corner youd spin, abs or no abs. It also weighs a fair bit so theres not much point.

I like to pose as well steve :cool:
 


Posted by Rob: "...and if you braked mid corner youd spin, abs or no abs."

Too right! I am an expert at mailto:tw@t">tw@t driving and have proved that one in my Integra... Ive just resigned to the fact that Ill never be a Schumacher...:oops:
 


lol ive never had a spin mid corner from braking...... i just give it plenty of opposit lock and smile to my firends.... I love sideways and sometimes even brake to get the back end out to make corners that much more fun
 


Ideally I would like ABS on my Cup. However to say the car is dangerous without it is tosh.

Ferrari F40 and lots of other fast cars didnt have it and people dont call them dangerous.

Omission of ABS is only dangerous in the hands of a complete muppet who cant drive. For everyone else its an added safety benefit.
 


Yeah thats fair enough.

Ive almost lost the back end of my clio on a wet round about, which is a bit of a trend on mk2/3 clios from what ive heard. Fun though ;)
 


How could ABS be a danger for a muppet who cant drive wilf? Its a saftey feature and people who cant drive will just use it to stop...

I just like playing with what it can do.. i always like playing with cars and abs is another thing to see what it REALLY can do for a driver.... I love it best thing since sliced bread me thinks
 


I used to hate ABS on my 16v, really annoyed me in the dry. The cup has great brakes and i said Id be happy without it. Since last Friday night though, I have changed my mind. Greasy roads and a sharp left with no warning signs put me into a ditch. I was feathering the brakes, but they kept locking up at the slightest touch.

my conclusion, ABS is great in the wet when emergencys happen, but can be annoying in the dry. maybe its my driving...
 


Steve I said the omission of ABS is only dangerous for the muppet.

It was the biggest negative issue for me when buying the Cup but saying that the brakes are pretty good on it anyway. People say its easy to lock the fronts on the Cup but theyre alot better than the (non-abs) you get on an Elise.
 


Top