Air induction project

[joedci80]

Hi all,

I have to do a project towards my automotive engineering degree, i have chosen to create an induction kit for a renault clio sport 172's and 182's
Ive been thinking from looking at plenty of pictures of engine bays, that could it be possible to relocate the fuse housuing and the battery and replace them somewhere else? That would give a better air flow to the enigine instead of the 90 degree turn ive seen alot of recently.
:S
Has anyone attempted this already? your views and ideas would help me alot

cheers

 

[Addicted]

Look at the Ktec one, job done.

 

[joedci80]

ktec havent done anything like ive suggested?

 

[sbridgey]

Basically you are suggesting the cup racer style air box set up.

 

[MartinR]

May work may not. Remove the acoustic valve and pipe work and relocate the induction kit/cone filter into the cavity between the arch liner and bumper where the acoustic valve was. Will be tricky doing the pipe work and finding the right size filter.. Should pick up alot cooler air from there too.

As said above cup racer setup removes the battery etc. And the new ktec one locates itself behind the passenger headlight and in front of the battery.

Options are minimal tbh.

Good luck and keep us updated on what you do.

 

[Hoofy]

Joe,

I've not long (3 years) finished my automotive engineering degree.... and now run a Clio 172 race car! If you're looking to do this for your project, you need to allow yourself some scope to go beyond just making another air box. As martin has pointed out, the options are pretty minimal, so you need to think outside of the box. My suggestion would be to look at how you could widen the possibilities in terms of solutions.....

Look at these kind of things:

- Re-locating components; look at everything involved, packaging constraints, manufacturing implications, cost. Cost is always a big one. If you simply did a project to make a lovely looking carbon air box only to conclude that it costs too much to make, it wouldn't get you good marks at all.
- Using new materials and technologies; can you improve another component to allow you more scope to improve another??
- The full life cycle of a component - showing that you have thought about the bigger picture is a great thing to demonstrate at degree level, if you can prove that the new part is cheaper and more environmentally friendly to make, you'll have a very viable product indeed.

Where are you studying??

 

[Ian_s]

If this is a final year project a simple induction kit isn't going to cut it. Look at the JMS inlet, that started as a uni project I believe.

Do you have access to Ricardo Wave? If your uni does Formula Student you will have a lot more options for inovation if you make a system for that.

 

[marinemackay2003]

I would look at something like a race land / pug sport air intake for the Clio

Maybe a way to go as no one makes anything like them for clios

 

[mitch1503]

May work may not. Remove the acoustic valve and pipe work and relocate the induction kit/cone filter into the cavity between the arch liner and bumper where the acoustic valve was. Will be tricky doing the pipe work and finding the right size filter.. Should pick up alot cooler air from there too.

K&N already cover this with the TYPHOON ik

 

[marinemackay2003]

Thats why my suggestion would be viable, as it an untested system that is not commercialy available

 

[Gray]

Personally, I don't think an induction kit would be viable for a final year Uni project?

 

[stokie4ker]

Hi all,

I have to do a project towards my automotive engineering degree, I have chosen to create an induction kit for a Renault Clio sport 172's and 182's
I've been thinking from looking at plenty of pictures of engine bays, that could it be possible to relocate the fuse housing and the battery and replace them somewhere else? That would give a better air flow to the engine instead of the 90 degree turn I've seen a lot of recently.
:S
Has anyone attempted this already? Your views and ideas would help me a lot

cheers

Hey Joe.

Moving the battery to the boot is pretty common on track orientated cars so you should have no problem finding info on that. The fuse box might be more of a problem due to the number of wires going to it. If you relocate it you are going to need to work out how to lengthen the wires whilst also making the junction water tight and allowing the car to be returned to standard in the future.

I think you will struggle to improve the standard setup as can be seen from the thread on induction systems. The "BTCC technology" induction kit from Ktec seems to be one of the few offering any improvement but it comes with an increase in induction roar which not everyone wants.

A better route might be tackling the intake manifold itself.
The tuned length of the manifold only gives a ram effect at certain engine speeds. Make the runners longer and you have more power at low engine speeds; make the runners shorter and you have more power at high engine speeds.

All you would need to do is work out the maths for the induction pipe length to give maximum power at ,say 3,500rpm and do the same for ,say 6,500rpm.
Once you have that then just design a manifold that is the length needed for low revs power with throttle bodies at the correct position along the length of the pipe for high revs power. At low revs leave them open so that the pressure wave bounces back and forth along the full length of the manifold; once the revs gets higher have them close on the compression stroke and open on the intake stroke just in time for the pressure wave to produce the ram effect and draw in extra air/fuel mix.
The biggest problem I can see is finding a throttle body capable of opening and closing at the required speeds. It doesn't need to be a throttle body of course, any type of valve that can be reliably opened and closed at high speed will do.

If the intake cam duration was 270° it would work out like this:

Our pressure wave travels at the speed of sound. A good estimate for the speed of sound is 340.29 metres per second.
The intake valve is open for 270[SUP]0[/SUP] of crank rotation.
The engine rotates twice (720[SUP]0[/SUP]) for the intake to open once.
720[SUP]0 [/SUP]minus 270[SUP]0 [/SUP]= 450[SUP]0[/SUP] of crank rotation that the intake is closed.

Divide the rpm by 60 seconds to give the rps
3,500rpm / 60 sec = 58.33rps
6,500rpm / 60 sec = 108.33rps

Multiply by 360° to give the number of degrees rotation per second
58.33rps X 360[SUP]0[/SUP]/rev = 20,999°/rev
108.33rps X 360[SUP]0[/SUP]/rev = 38,999°/rev

Divide the 450° we found earlier to give the time the valve is closed
450° / 20,999°/rev = 0.0214s
450° / 38,999°/rev = 0.0115s

Multiply that answer by the speed of sound to give the distance travelled in that time
0.0214s X 340.29m/s =7.28m
0.0115s X 340.29m/s =3.91m

To get the ram effect you need the wave to return to the valve as it opens so divide that answer by 2
7.28m / 2 = 3.64m
3.91m / 2 = 1.96m

So to get the ram effect the we need an induction length from the closed rear face of the inlet valve to something solid it can reflect off like the inside face of the plenum chamber it would need to be the lengths calculated.
Which are quite a bit longer than the room under the Clio bonnet.
If we divide those lengths by an even number (like 6) then the waveform will be reflected inside the shorter pipe and arrive at the open inlet valve when we want it to.

3.64m / 6 = 60.67cm
1.96m / 6 = 32.67cm

So if you make an intake manifold that is 60cm long and have a valve you can operate when required at the 32cm mark then you would have the best of both worlds.
Possibly.
Mechanical engineering isn't my field of expertise so I'd run the idea by someone who knows first.


This link explains a little more about the mechanics of ram effect http://www.chrysler300club.com/uniq/allaboutrams/ramtheory.htm


Tom from JMS developed the RS2 intake as part of his degree which did away with both Renault intake manifolds and replaced them with a modified Jenvey manifold and custom made carbon plenum chamber with integrated velocity stacks.
The problem with this was the whole setup was sitting in a confined space which limited the induction length and required uprated engine mounts; he did try a longer system but it meant loosing the slam panel and fitting bonnet latches.

It might be an idea to do something similar to Toms idea but using the standard lower inlet manifold. It would give you more room to work with and be cheaper as there would be no need to buy a new Jenvey manifold and then have it modified to accept the Clio injectors. It would be a lot easier to engineer than playing with induction pipe lengths and you could draw air from the area behind the passenger side headlight the same way the Ktec and RS2 systems do.

 

[p@blo]

Look at the Ktec one, job done.

I lol'd.

 

[Cr33do]

Stokie4ker,

All that stuff sounds very similar to what I reading up on when Mike and I had a go at building one.

As James discovered previously! I think a manifold and plenum would offer a lot more scope for final year project. Would be nice to see some alternative designs too.

More info about are manifold in our project thread

 

[joedci80]

Wow thanks for all you help! i ned to start drawing up some ideas cheers all

 

[stokie4ker]

Not too bad Cr33do, how did it work out? I keep intending to try something similar but using the Clio lower inlet manifold like I suggested to Joe but I'm not confident enough in my mechanical engineering to do it.

Don't forget to let us know how the project is going Joe.

 

[joedci80]

Will do stokie4ker thanks again, and that picture looks awesome