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Airflow. The best std airbox setup.



aucky

ClioSport Club Member
Right, I've been looking at a lot of induction setups, and tried quite a few. And I've been thinking a lot about the science behind what makes different setups behave differently. I'm not an expert in tuning, but I've spent a few year in process engineering, so I've got a fair idea of what I'm talking about. I could be wrong in all of this, but im pretty sure im not.

Before i go into it, I havent dyno tested any of these, and even if i did, it doesnt explain the whole story. For me, the focus is on responsivness.


When people get v6 airboxs they often complain about a lack of response and just get a boomy noise when they put their foot down. This is because they have a larger intake hole. The venturi effect.
Just because there is a bigger hole, it doesnt necessarily mean more flow (sure, theres the potential for more flow) but it doesnt happen immediately. Imagine suckingwater through a straw, and then sucking it through a drain pipe, theres more potential flow but its harder to suck it at the same rate if the suck is the same pressure. (suck = low manifold pressure due to inlet stroke of a piston). This happens a lot at low revs.

So when you plant your foot down with something like a BMC of a v6 airbox, there is a lag due to the low velocity of air (which i think is responsible for smoothed torque curves). This lag causes a high difference in pressure between the inlet side of the filter, and the engine side, because the air drawn in my the engine cannot be sucked into the filter houseing quick enough.
Any performance gains on a dyno will not show this lag.

On the other hand, if the inlet hole is too small it will cause a restriction. Which i believe the standard setup is, (that sucking sound).

The venturi effect:
The high velocity air is needed for responsiveness.


0810chp_04_z+chevy_carburetor_tuning_tips+venturi_effect.jpg


Notice the shape is similar to the inlet of an ITG Maxogen? (which DOES drive well)

My solution:
With the focus on response and cheapness, after experimenting with a lot of configurations I've gone for this:

Standard airbox with standard fitler (they aren't BAD filters, but I'll be changing to a KTR panel filter just for the cheapness of it!)
Acoustic calve removed.
Upper cold air feed removed and replaced with a loosely fitting caf running from the floor.

utf-8BSU1HMDAwNjQtMjAxMDA2MDktMTg0M.jpg

utf-8BSU1HMDAwNjMtMjAxMDA2MDktMTg0M.jpg


The theory behind it is to bypass the need for a finely tuned inlet port (maxogen) and ensure the inlet pressure and air supply flow rate are high enough so as not to cause restriction.

The ram effect esque caf does this. The high speed air ensures there is plenty of cold air to be sucked through the filter, and its loose fitting to the airbox ensures that the length of the caf wont cause a restriction when driving at low speeds.
I've also put a samco induction elbow on partly for looks and partly due to its constant diameter.

So, all in all I'm verry happy with this setup and I wont be spending any more on induciton kits. (unless someone buys me a JMS RS2).
 
Thats a good and interesting read mate, i have also read up on few induction kits as well although i havent tried any out, i am currently running the standard set up with a K&N panel filter and a samco hose, but the acoustic valve is still on, i think i may take it off now. I have read also on here some people arnt that convinced with the JMS set up.
 
  Nissan 370Z
could you not reroute the air feed to the grill so you dont have the problem if you go through a big puddle?
 
  Saab 93 Aero Wagon
Any significant amount of water that gets through into the combustion chamber will end up breaking something.

Water doesn't get on well in there.
 
  Saab 93 Aero Wagon
Having a cold air feed pipe that low to the ground is asking for trouble when it comes to deep water regardless of the filter set up.

I have read also on here some people arnt that convinced with the JMS set up.

Also, im curious as to what doubts you have regarding the JMS setup. What are your concerns?
 
Having a cold air feed pipe that low to the ground is asking for trouble when it comes to deep water regardless of the filter set up.

My cold air feed pipe isnt low its the standard set up, where do you have yours?
 
i dont have a any concerns i have read good things about it, just a few times i have seen people saying that they dont gain anything from it with the standard clio, thats all i think its fantastic work from the JMS lads. I think that goes with any induction kit or set up though, you wont get much gain if any and for best results get remap.

I have also read through the fast car write up ehich is a good read and many induction kits give inbalance of power and torque through the range.
 
  Saab 93 Aero Wagon
Im sorry, i was presuming you were talking about copying what the thread starter has done.
If you are running the standard setup with an uprated panel filter and acoustic valve removed then you shouldn't have any concerns.
In terms of experimenting with different CAF's, well it pays to know that the area around the battery is a cool spot in the engine bay so if you are intending to stick with what you have then i'd just make sure you have some sort of feed from this area.

Running huge lengths of pipe that loop down and around the engine bay don't really do much to help.
 
  Saab 93 Aero Wagon
I cant see any advantage to removing the acoustic valve apart from maybe weight saving?

Are you being serious?

We are talking about a RESTRICTIVE valve that opens and closes within the induction route.
Getting rid of it is point A of Chapter 1 of the "How to improve engine breathing" book!
 

aucky

ClioSport Club Member
With regards to puddles, I very much doubt the water would make it all the way up the caf. Even if it did, and it managed to get into the airbox, it would have to overcome gravity and make it through a paper filter in an un-atomized state. Can't see it happening tbh.
 
  Nissan 370Z
With regards to puddles, I very much doubt the water would make it all the way up the caf. Even if it did, and it managed to get into the airbox, it would have to overcome gravity and make it through a paper filter in an un-atomized state. Can't see it happening tbh.

Can you not move it so it fits behind the grill?
 

aucky

ClioSport Club Member
But it has happened. Search on www.306gti6.com
Can't comment on the setup they use, don't know the first thing about them. But im guessing the exposed caf is the only feed, making it more possible. remember there are 2 feeds on the std airbox, the modified caf is not sealed so any suction is negligable. Its more about the velocity of air from the car moving equalising the pressure accross the filter.

If any water does make it up there, there should be some sitting in the airbox because i drove through a monsoon on the way home form fcs. I'll check later!
 
Last edited:
  Saab 93 Aero Wagon
With regards to puddles, I very much doubt the water would make it all the way up the caf. Even if it did, and it managed to get into the airbox, it would have to overcome gravity and make it through a paper filter in an un-atomized state. Can't see it happening tbh.

Od course it can happen! Why do you think proper off road vehicles run with snorkels?
 

Sir_Dave

ClioSport Trader
Can't comment on the setup they use

They use an air filter, in a box, fed by some ducting. This sucks air in, clever stuff happens in the engine when the air mixes fuel & it creates fire, which gives power. A lot of the Gti6 boys used to fit K&N filters in the box, then feed them with bigger ducts, low down below the bumper.

They would then drive through big puddles & the water would try & put the fire out in the engine. Apparently this is bad.

Well it was for my mates Rallye, he needed a new engine, & i needed a new tape recorder, purely as it saved me saying 'i told you so' 50 times a day until he got it fixed ...

;)
 

aucky

ClioSport Club Member
Lol, alright alright. No need for that tone. :rasp:
In theory this works in the dry then, and I think i'll still do some tests to detect moisture because the caf in question doesnt have the direct suction of gti6 setup, it basically just points.

But if a mod is in the mood to delete this thread, they can.
 
right ok just switched laptops from my work one to my personal one i can now see the pics. when people where talking about the puddles i thought it was me now i see it wasnt.

My standard set up is fine good to know. when i get bored which will be very soon i might go for a JMS
 

aucky

ClioSport Club Member
Just checked the airbox, no sign of water.
But iv removed the caf anyway because I'm now paranoid and didn't consider it when I first did it. Pointless exercise. Delete thread?
 
Nothing wrong with the theory of what you are doing mate! It is however a massive risk putting the intake there - trust me!
 
it will work fine in good weather but do you think its a risk worth taking? if your going to put a new CAF on imo near the battery is best.
 

Adey.

ClioSport Club Member
as close to the base of the window as possible, seen a few rally cars and s1600 runs that sorta setup, think theres a high pressure area there?
 
  alien green rs133
this was my favorite intake.
18189064a11386822430o.jpg


but this is win
18189064a12058922810o.jpg





in regards to the suction of puddle botters. this is the reason renault air box's have two intakes to minimise the chances of both of them being underwater long enough to suck up volume of air pipes and the air box.
if just one air feed is underwater the other will be the only one sucking air.
but seen as the OP has CAF loose on airbox he has to go through a puddle deeper than the headlights to be worried.

i think what he has done it about right tbh.

i rate OEM filters as long as they are changed at regular services :D

hutchie
 
  Nissan 370Z
Hutchie...what do you mean by loose? do you mean his caf isnt actually attached directly to the standard air box?
 
  alien green rs133
thats what it sounds like, unfortunately this will give you some slight warm arm from engine bay but will stop you getting water in airbox :rasp:
 
After reading this thread.

The theory behind what your saying makes sense.

And everyone that is saying that the CAF Aucky fitted will suck up water and knacker the engine.
Where exactly is the best place for the intake end of your CAF ?
 


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