Another cambelt thread omg

[jack_davey]

I'm a technician and I've done a few 182 timing belts, I can see how it could be easily f*cked up if you havent done your research, don't have the correct locking tools and/or you are not working from the renault workshop manual.

However it really annoys me when the spineless sheep on this forum (who have no idea how to do a timing belt on an F4R) try to tell anyone that even hints at doing one that they ABSOLUTELY MUST take it to the same specialist that they used, when they have no idea of how competent the person attempting it is and completely rule out the possibility that they may be able to do the job themselves. People like that should stay out of the technical forums as they clearly have nothing beneficial to share with other users of the forum.

 

[mikeh]

I did my belts and de-phaser pulley with a pattern cam timing tool only in the end. The bolt for the crank timing pin rounded and the pulley locking tool off eBay turned out to be the wrong one.

Timing was checked and double checked and all fine. Car still pulls just as well, and is still equal in pace to a local 172 cup and 182.

I think the difference is that when you take it an indy - they are not cautious about it, they probably do it the same as the 10s of other cambelts they get every week. I educated myself, and took a lot of care.

 

[aldo_87]

AFAIK Renault don't undo the cam pulley bolts for a simple cambelt job.

So they will have needed only one tool to do your car. Since they will not have undone the cam pulleys the laser tool would have been fine for holding the cams in position as no force goes through it unless you undo the cam pulleys.

So that would have been only 40 quid on tools for your job.

Well I've dipped out then.

However I'd still be spending £300 +-, more if I changed the dephaser and then I'd have to do the job (first time also). So for the £500 you pay, for instance, BTM (unbiased opinion because I dont know him or have any dealings) I'd say its a good deal considering the effort and knowledge. I'd say its very acceptable in this day and age to pay £100 +- for the labour and experience of a specialist to carry out the job.

I'd like to add, I genuinely support people doing work themselves. But when your not paying much more to save yourself rolling around your garage floor getting manky and have a parts and labour warranty, IMO is worth it. My cambelt is the very first job I've had carried out by a garage in 7 years of motoring.

 

[mikeh]

I think I spent £380 in the end on the Cambelt, Auxbelt and De-phaser pulley. I think the forum specialists ask around £640ish? Irrelevant anyway - they are all too much of a pain to get to for me.

 

[Fred@BTM]

AFAIK Renault don't undo the cam pulley bolts for a simple cambelt job.

So they will have needed only one tool to do your car. Since they will not have undone the cam pulleys the laser tool would have been fine for holding the cams in position as no force goes through it unless you undo the cam pulleys.

So that would have been only 40 quid on tools for your job.

wrong, this is why we have f**k ups, the pulleys have to be undone, feel free to flame me for saying that!

if you read the renault manual carefully it state 2 procedures, 1 with VVT and 1 without, its not very clear and easy to miss

 

[Fred@BTM]

I think I spent £380 in the end on the Cambelt, Auxbelt and De-phaser pulley. I think the forum specialists ask around £640ish? Irrelevant anyway - they are all too much of a pain to get to for me.

that doesn't even cover the cost of the parts mate!

 

[Andyrg@ ClioTurbo]

wrong, this is why we have f**k ups, the pulleys have to be undone, feel free to flame me for saying that!

if you read the renault manual carefully it state 2 procedures, 1 with VVT and 1 without, its not very clear and easy to miss

Fred you know nothing Who wants to listen to you, god!! youd think youve done over a 1000 of these belts!!

 

[coxxy]

well my local renault aint got the cam seal kit in stock and i booked monday off to do my belts. Gutted!!!

 

[MicKPM]

Come to mine tomorrow... I've got a few on shelf. Yours, brand new and sealed for £25

 

[Sam@NP]

AFAIK Renault don't undo the cam pulley bolts for a simple cambelt job.

So they will have needed only one tool to do your car. Since they will not have undone the cam pulleys the laser tool would have been fine for holding the cams in position as no force goes through it unless you undo the cam pulleys.

So that would have been only 40 quid on tools for your job.

Mong

 

[coxxy]

Come to mine tomorrow... I've got a few on shelf. Yours, brand new and sealed for £25

i got one now mate cheers

 

[mikeh]

that doesn't even cover the cost of the parts mate!

That £380 was for the parts. I did the job myself.

 

[coxxy]

fair play to you for doing it yourself. im doing mine monday

 

[mark123]

wrong, this is why we have f**k ups, the pulleys have to be undone, feel free to flame me for saying that!

if you read the renault manual carefully it state 2 procedures, 1 with VVT and 1 without, its not very clear and easy to miss

I know a renault mechanic who said they never undid the cam pulleys, I've seen other renault mechanics say it on here.

I never said it was the "right" thing to do. I'm just saying what I've heard.

 

[mark123]

Mong

lol this forum is a joke sometimes. Learn to read.

 

[mark123]

wrong, this is why we have f**k ups, the pulleys have to be undone, feel free to flame me for saying that!

if you read the renault manual carefully it state 2 procedures, 1 with VVT and 1 without, its not very clear and easy to miss

I'd like you to explain. I know there are two procedures, I know undoing the cam pulleys is the most accurate way to do it.

But from an engineering point of view I don't see what difference VVT makes to the two procedures. Both procedures are equally applicable to a non VVT floating pulley set up as well.

 

[scotty2hotty81]

If you lock the cam pulleys with the tool, and do not loosen off the bolts then tension the belt, as soon as you turn the engine over the timing will be out, this is due to the cambelt being tight at one point and loose at another, fitting renault tools on the crank and cams then loosening the bolts means that when you tension the belt the tension is even, one degree out can loose you power. (from what I understand)

 

[Alastair.]

did a aux belt the other day on a 182, belt kit (tensioner/idler and belt ) is now £60+vat, well cheap.

 

[ginge!]

I'm guessing you have never realised there can be different tensions between the pullies, they will naturally spread via the vvt pulley Over a few turns, try it then put in the locking tools and the cams won't be in line even though minor generally, loosening the pulley you turn the engine to distribute the tension without affecting the timing, it's minor but it makes a difference as the vvt only moves the timing a minor amount on the cam shaft but you notice the differencewhen it happens

 

[mark123]

If you lock the cam pulleys with the tool, and do not loosen off the bolts then tension the belt, as soon as you turn the engine over the timing will be out, this is due to the cambelt being tight at one point and loose at another, fitting renault tools on the crank and cams then loosening the bolts means that when you tension the belt the tension is even, one degree out can loose you power. (from what I understand)

I'm guessing you have never realised there can be different tensions between the pullies, they will naturally spread via the vvt pulley Over a few turns, try it then put in the locking tools and the cams won't be in line even though minor generally, loosening the pulley you turn the engine to distribute the tension without affecting the timing, it's minor but it makes a difference as the vvt only moves the timing a minor amount on the cam shaft but you notice the differencewhen it happens

You haven't read/understood my post. I understand why that procedure is most accurate, I understand about the tension between the pulleys.

Fred said above one of the two procedures is for VVT. I'm saying I don't see why you would only do it for VVT it is equally valid for non VVT.

 

[coxxy]

well todays the day. will be out there soon cracking on with it. Whats best to soak the dephaser pulley in to clean it?

 

[coxxy]

cant get the end seals out. whats the easiest way to get em???

 

[coxxy]

ive got them out and this is what i found. take a look at the slot on the inlet cam

 

[olliewebbuk]

Bugger! Not sure you'll be able to time that up tbh!

 

[mwn11]

How has that happened?!

You might be able to turn it but only clockwise.

 

[Sam@NP]

How has that happened?!

Someone has messed with it who doesnt know what they are doing. ( Not aimed at OP btw)

That is going to be tricky to work around, I have never come across one like this but I'm sure Fred or Mike will be able to give you some advice.

 

[mwn11]

Thats pretty bad. the side furthest from the camera looks completely ruined.

 

[Fred@BTM]

new cam/s time, i've got 30 pairs spare

someone didn't use the pulley tool methinks

 

[coxxy]

ive timed it up and put the crank pin in and the worst side of the cam is now towards me.

 

[coxxy]

new cam/s time, i've got 30 pairs spare

someone didn't use the pulley tool methinks

it wasnt me!!!how much for new cam?????

 

[mwn11]

So it has rotated 180 degrees? surely it couldnt of been that far out or have i misunderstood?

 

[Fred@BTM]

yeah i realise that!

2nd hand, £40 a pair

 

[coxxy]

timing is out. horseshoe wont go in

 

[olliewebbuk]

That's a bargin Fred, I'd bite his hand off coxxy.

 

[coxxy]

whats your phone number fred????

 

[coxxy]

So it has rotated 180 degrees? surely it couldnt of been that far out or have i misunderstood?

i didnt have the crankpin in when i took the end caps off. when i turned the engine over to time it up the most damaged side of the cam was towards me

 

[Sam@NP]

Fred = 07769712624

 

[coxxy]

i phoned him. Got the doctors for jabs lol. gonna call me when he back.

 

[coxxy]

how do i tell if the crank pin is in the setting groove or the balancing hole???
i got it in one then pulled it out a bit to find the other but i cant.

 

[mark123]

There's a mark on block, it's in the manual. Something like the slot for the key (which is obviously empty) should be pointing between two bits of the casting.