Audi S1 Quattro

[MarkCup]

As much as I respect Mark's driving abilities, Tom, there is no point arguing with him on this. It is simply a Quattro versus Renault/Ford hot hatch disagreement that will go on and on. Much like the VXR vs M3 thread, but with less swearing/idiots.

Noted. I'll shut up now.

 

[Gally]

Well no but it shows its not slow and both figures are outside of a what standard 1*2 will do. Does the 100ft/lbs more torque make a difference? Or the fact your judging on a peak BHP and you don't know what its like through the rev range or when it makes peak power? Of if it has overboost? Bit like the 179bhp from a fiesta ST?

And you are comparing the weight from a different car and making assumptions. Sounds fair.

I have to agree with Tom. It's an uber mini hothatch, competing against Mini GP etc. It's far from slow!

 

[JD]

Noted. I'll shut up now.

Not at all, Mark. You post with reason. It just won't change my mind about Audis/Quattro platforms in real world scenarios, as we've been through in other threads.

 

[_Tom]

I'm not saying a 172 would beat it in any scenario, more that despite a decade of evolution, one of the key measures of performance has not moved forwards at all from a rattly old French hatchback.

I'm sure it'll drive really well (inevitable understeer excepted), but unless Audi have come up with some way of re-defining the laws of physics it's going to feel like a 1,430 kg car when its body size would suggest it should be, and all similar rivals are, 200kgs less. Hence its modest power output not really being enough.

Different car? Not relevant?

I used the kerb weight of an A1 Quattro, the same basic power unit, same bodyshell, same basic 4WD system. Unless this new one is covered in carbon fibre, the weight's going to be all but identical. Isn't it?

Ok, Mark..lol

 

[Matt W]

If someones after a 230bhp+ hot hatch with good build quality, 4wd and a warranty i'll make sure they buy a 172 instead...

 

[JD]

Ok, so that's not what Mark is saying IMO. He's saying it's heavier than it's current market competitors. Which it is. Because it has Quattro.

Now, if I understand correctly, this is a bad thing. But a; that's what Audi fast lines are built with (something that's been working well for them since the late 80s) and b; in real world driving conditions for the masses, Quattro is jolly useful.

Last time I was in The Lakes at Christmas, it snowed. Dad and I went up the local pass in my S3 and his A4 Avant. The Type R (and other sport models likely to compete with my S3 that were not present) were stuck at the bottom.

 

[_Tom]

Ok, so that's not what Mark is saying IMO. He's saying it's heavier than it's current market competitors. Which it is. Because it has Quattro.

Now, if I understand correctly, this is a bad thing. But a; that's what Audi fast lines are built with (something that's been working well for them since the late 80s) and b; in real world driving conditions for the masses, Quattro is jolly useful.

Last time I was in The Lakes at Christmas, it snowed. Dad and I went up the local pass in my S3 and his A4 Avant. The Type R (and other sport models likely to compete with my S3 that were not present) were stuck at the bottom.

Even the less powered, heavy, A1 Quattro is 2 seconds quicker around Hockenheim short circuit than then likes of a fiesta ST according to fastestlaps.com so it shouldn't be too shabby regardless.

But yeah, "real world" driving conditions are when cars like this will come into their own.

 

[MarkCup]

He he he, we're not all going to agree on everything, I get that. I guess from my 172 Cup days I just can't see past the mass that this thing will have to carry especially when a hot-hatch is meant to be just that...and not a GT cruiser/off-roader of sorts.

 

[_Tom]

He he he, we're not all going to agree on everything, I get that. I guess from my 172 Cup days I just can't see past the mass that this thing will have to carry especially when a hot-hatch is meant to be just that...and not a GT cruiser/off-roader of sorts.

Lol! "The Farmers performance car"..

 

[Gally]

He he he, we're not all going to agree on everything, I get that. I guess from my 172 Cup days I just can't see past the mass that this thing will have to carry especially when a hot-hatch is meant to be just that...and not a GT cruiser/off-roader of sorts.

People don't buy S1 Quattros to do trackdays mate. They buy them for daughters, wives, girlfriends, sons. Same reason people can't get their head around a 40k mini. They aren't aimed at people like you and me in essence.

The Mini GP2 is 30k odd! Fwd hot hatch?

 

[JD]

Haha!

I agree with that statement, Mark, and appreciate what weight does for handling. Fairly certain Audi do as well, judging by the amount of adverts telling us about their new lightweight A6 platform not that long ago! I guess the argument goes all the way up the platform chain. Do you buy an S4/RS4 with four wheel drive and added weight, or a BMW without.

 

[ColinG]

The yellow 5 door is just rediculously ugly...

But a 3 door in white, or blue etc is going to be a tasty little car. Too small now for me personally, I would take one of those new S3 saloons though!

 

[Gally]

I think the A3 sportback looks stunning in comparison to the saloon.

 

[r0ss172]

Am i the only one that thinks if you want a small hatch with 4WD and a pokey engine, you'd be better saving your pennies and buying a new age Impreza WRX or STI hatch? I think it would have better tunning potential, cheaper to buy as they will be used, and dare i say it a better 4WD system?

Only downside i can see (if you can call it that) is that its slightly bigger/heavier than an A1? I actually prefer the look of an impreza too...

Just a thought

 

[_Tom]

Am i the only one that thinks if you want a small hatch with 4WD and a pokey engine, you'd be better saving your pennies and buying a new age Impreza WRX or STI hatch? I think it would have better tunning potential, cheaper to buy as they will be used, and dare i say it a better 4WD system?

Only downside i can see (if you can call it that) is that its slightly bigger/heavier than an A1? I actually prefer the look of an impreza too...

Just a thought

Do you REALLY think people who are considering these would even look at an impreza? This is not Audi's attempt at a rally car.

 

[JD]

Do you REALLY think people who are considering these would even look at an impreza? This is not Audi's attempt at a chavvy car.

EFA. Personal opinion.

 

[Gally]

Am i the only one that thinks if you want a small hatch with 4WD and a pokey engine, you'd be better saving your pennies and buying a new age Impreza WRX or STI hatch? I think it would have better tunning potential, cheaper to buy as they will be used, and dare i say it a better 4WD system?

Only downside i can see (if you can call it that) is that its slightly bigger/heavier than an A1? I actually prefer the look of an impreza too...

Just a thought

Are you on drugs? An Impreza!!!

 

[Matt W]

Love these threads.

Waiting for, 'if you want 4wd and an engine you'd be stupid to buy this, you can get a p reg discovery for £1200!'

 

[r0ss172]

People don't buy S1 Quattros to do trackdays mate. They buy them for daughters, wives, girlfriends, sons

When you put it that way, the impreza suggestion is a little wayward I admit

 

[GiT]

I bloody love it.

Yellow and 5 doors is more than fine with me

 

[Herr Flick]

I'd choose an impreza over this lol.

 

[Gally]

Love these threads.

Waiting for, 'if you want 4wd and an engine you'd be stupid to buy this, you can get a p reg discovery for £1200!'

I did lol!

 

[Oldskoolbaby]

This will be an epic little car. It's something I'd like to see my missus drive my son about in to be honest. Great in all weathers and road conditions.
Not going back to the 1*2/ST debate but its worth considering the tuning potential of this platform for someone who will run one 365 days a year. Forget your Mountune, Revo and other generic, easy to do remaps in other 2wd chassis. You will be able to pile on the torque figure in this car and use it all year round with out spinning it away or having tc holding it back. It's one of the main reasons I was oh so disappointed that Ford didn't opt to fit the volvo s60/v70R gearbox to the RS Focus. The RS might not want awd at stock power levels whether it be wet or dry but adding a rear diff would have opened up a huge array of excitement at 400+hp.

What makes me laugh is people saying "it doesn't need 4wd, it needs lees weight". People said exactly the same thing 30 years ago about the UR Quattro and look how wrong they were. The heavy old UR pissed all over the lighter R5 T2's, lancia's and Fords. Why? Because it used every single one of its 300 odd hp regardless of conditions.

 

[CrippsCorner]

No.

Pretty much this. Saw an A1 Quattro in Paris though, it was insane, so nice...

 

[Chris V6 255]

I think it looks awesome! Really looking forward to the reviews. It may have a base price of 25k but I bet that yellow one is coming in at well over 30k.

 

[chris_p]

I love the way they look (not in yellow), but I have to agree with Mark.

It's too heavy for a hot hatch and combined with an Audi platform it's not going to be a particularly exciting drive for enthusiasts.
It is to be expected though, times change, as do safety regulations and driver conveniences.
Audi were hardly going to make a 1100kg 4wd nutter, it's not the Audi way. They play it safe, and it works.
Unless you like hot hatches to excel at their primary objective, in which case you're left as cold as ever.

 

[Oldskoolbaby]

Genuine question. What is the weight of a Ford Escort Cosworth and would people get in one today and find one dull and boring. I've never drove one hence the question but I doubt they would be boring due to the old agricultural engineering no?

 

[syko6288]

S1 in daytona grey would look nice in 3-door it dosent look right as a sportback