Best 172 Phase 2 Mods for £1000-£1500 for fast road & several track days a years?

[James-EP400]

Hi All,

I've just bought my first Clio, a 172 Phase 2 with the following performance mods:

*Decat
*Unknown brand of exhaust
*Lowered on Eibach springs
*16" Cup speedlines
*Brembo discs and Ferodo pads (unsure if DS2500)
*Pipercross viper air filter

My project thread is here http://www.cliosport.net/forum/show...Black-172-Phase-2-Road-Track-car-(on-a-budget!)

Just wondering what people think is the best way to enhance the performance of my Clio for fast road driving and a couple of track/action days a year and maybe go to the ring sometime!!

Budget is probably around £1000-£1500 over time

I was thinking from reading on here and chatting to a few people about doing the following modifications:

*Change the air filter back to standard (after reading the fast car air filter test) £20 or I could get a V6 airbox £60-£80
*Cup shocks and wishbones £250 (do you also need the hubs?)
*Wheel spacers (any good or is it better to get the cup hubs to space the wheels out instead for a wider track?)
*RS Tuner £100
*Matched inlets £100
*182 manifold, cat and yozzasport or better exhaust system with a single 2.5" or 3" slash cut £500 (would like car to be road legal & pass an MOT) - What is the best way to run a 182 manifold with a 172 exhaust system?
*Set of 15" wheels (speedline, OZ F1, team dynamics) and fast road or used track tyres £300
*Small steering wheel 280mm with Momo boss £0 (steering wheel was a present and boss came with the car!!)
*Change the seats, Evo 5 / Accord Type R Recaro's £300-400
*Braided lines and DOT 5 fluid £80
*Whiteline rear ARB £150

I know if you add that up its almost £2000 but I'm interested in what people think are the best value for money performance modifications and whether my prices are roughly right (second hand parts not new). Are there any things listed there people wouldn't bother with or that they definately would do and in what order?

I would just like a good all round car which will be fun on the road and won't feel likes its too out of place on the track without breaking the bank

Any opinons, comments, thoughts would be welcome or whether there are some good threads out there, i've had a search but not really found any for a specific budget or looking at the whole range of modifications.

 

[Dan@SJM]

Yozza exhaust certainly
Ph1 airbox is a good cheap option.
Cup shocks with Eibach springs, wishbones too. all bolt on to your hubs.
RStuner (speak to chip)
Matched inlets yes, I've got a set here I think.
182 manifold is a big effort to fit, for what is really only noticable midrange.
Rear ARB has made a massive difference on mine, even with the Bilsteins.

My advice, solid top mounts too. Brake setup, I'm not sold on the ds2500 setup, I dislike the feel of the pads, but I seem to be one of the only ones. I drove a cup with it and there was just no progressive feel to the brakes. I quite like 1144's and Carbone lorraines.

 

[Chip-mk1]

I agree with Dan in terms of concentrate on the cars handling not go chasing power, an RS Tuner map is cheap enough to be worth doing and gives some useful extra rpm but other than that I wouldnt bother (TBH not even the matched inlets unless you get some very cheap) with anything else engine mod wise on that budget, it just wont make much difference.

On the exhaust front, be careful of noise regs if going for something like a Yozza and a decat, they are pretty noisey.

I like the DS2500 that dan doesnt, and the 1144 he likes the feel of I think lack overall braking ability although I agree they do drive nicely, 1155 are better for track but noisey for road.

 

[sbridgey]

personally i wouldn't bother with an RS tuner map or matched inlets,I don't really think they are worth the price. I would't bother with a 182 manifold either, but I would definitely get a ph1/v6 air box and put most of my money into handling and getting a good fresh set up.

So new cup shocks, new TRE's, new Tie rods etc. A whiteline is a must for me, I love mine.

I would fit braided brake lines with some high performance dot 4 fluid and fit DS3000's as i am not convinced with my DS2500's.

15's with track tyres would be good.

For the seats it really depends on if you want a full on bucket or something useable on the road so the seats you have mentioned would be good but for a proper bucket you could consider Bimarco futura's.

And of course change all of the fluids and general service items and just give the car a really good check over to make sure its in tip top condition.

 

[yeecup]

rs2 manifold. close thread.

 

[James-EP400]

Yozza exhaust certainly
Ph1 airbox is a good cheap option.
Cup shocks with Eibach springs, wishbones too. all bolt on to your hubs.
RStuner (speak to chip)
Matched inlets yes, I've got a set here I think.
182 manifold is a big effort to fit, for what is really only noticable midrange.
Rear ARB has made a massive difference on mine, even with the Bilsteins.

My advice, solid top mounts too. Brake setup, I'm not sold on the ds2500 setup, I dislike the feel of the pads, but I seem to be one of the only ones. I drove a cup with it and there was just no progressive feel to the brakes. I quite like 1144's and Carbone lorraines.

All sounds good.....

What is the difference with the phase 1 to the phase 2 airbox? I already have a phase 2 airbox but need the 2 cold air feed pipes, rear bracket, rear rubber washer/mount and the nuts, bolts so I was just going to get those parts and bolt that on. It has a pipercross panel filter in the airbox already.

I don't know what Eibach springs I have, whether its the prolines or sportlines but they seem to be doing the job alright. Thats good they bolt onto the hubs then.

Yeah I've spoken to Chip reference the RS Tuner, think we did on Saturday in Harvester!!

Sounds like then the following would be good modifications:

*Rear ARB
*Change the airbox
*Cup shocks and wishbones
*Better exhaust, maybe leave decat on and just put the cat back in for MOT if the 182 manifold is a pig to do
*Solid top mounts - How much are these, any ones you can recommend?
*RS Tuner
*Matched inlets - How long and how difficult are these to fit? Would you swap yours if I gave you my standards in PX + cash?

I suppose the brake pad choice is a lot to do with individual choice, I've had DS2500's before but that was on my old tank (Saab 93 Viggen) and they did quite well. My MG ZR I tracked at Combe had EBC Green's in it (not my choice bought the car with them on) and they were ok but not great. I've also had some mintex and they were alright but not had a massive amount of pad experience especially on track.

 

[Goodj]

remove back seats.

 

[James-EP400]

I agree with Dan in terms of concentrate on the cars handling not go chasing power, an RS Tuner map is cheap enough to be worth doing and gives some useful extra rpm but other than that I wouldnt bother (TBH not even the matched inlets unless you get some very cheap) with anything else engine mod wise on that budget, it just wont make much difference.

On the exhaust front, be careful of noise regs if going for something like a Yozza and a decat, they are pretty noisey.

I like the DS2500 that dan doesnt, and the 1144 he likes the feel of I think lack overall braking ability although I agree they do drive nicely, 1155 are better for track but noisey for road.

Yeah sounds like handling is the way to go for getting the most out of a Clio.

It might be that my exhaust is alright and getting a Yozza or something else with the engine mods I would do might not make much difference. Although I would like a single slash tip not the twin I have at the moment.

I am thinking my car at the moment might struggle with noise regs as it is pretty loud, although hopefully sorting the blow out might make it a little quieter!!

I will try and find out what pads I have got in at the moment, I can definately see Ferodo on the pad with some other numbers so would be interesting to see if I have got DS2500's or not.

 

[Dan@SJM]

I'll try and get some Carbone lorraines in mine so you can have a test/feel between mine and lesleys(if shes willing)(oooeerrr)

 

[James-EP400]

I'll try and get some Carbone lorraines in mine so you can have a test/feel between mine and lesleys(if shes willing)(oooeerrr)

Haha!! Well an update for you, i've just been out to the Clio and had a look at the Pads and I just just see "DS2500" written on them. Which is good news as I didn't know if they were DS2500's or not! At least I can see what they are like compared to other pads i've had and also other pads in other cars.

I've also had a look at my exhaust system and its a 2" system with decat. I was looking to see what system it was and saw the word "Wolfrace" written on the back box!! Think it might possibly be this system http://www.kentcustoms.co.uk/acatalog/Wolf_Design_Full_Stainless_Systems_for_Renault_Sport_172.html as the tail pipes look like it but I don't have a centre box.

 

[Daz.]

Inlets did sod all, so much so I didn't even take them off when I sold it. RS tuner I did purely because not many had done it at the time and it helped with lumpy running from cold.

Not once did I think it made the car any better. To be honest I thought the same after putting H&R's on it after sportlines/koni combo!

 

[James-EP400]

personally i wouldn't bother with an RS tuner map or matched inlets,I don't really think they are worth the price. I would't bother with a 182 manifold either, but I would definitely get a ph1/v6 air box and put most of my money into handling and getting a good fresh set up.

So new cup shocks, new TRE's, new Tie rods etc. A whiteline is a must for me, I love mine.

I would fit braided brake lines with some high performance dot 4 fluid and fit DS3000's as i am not convinced with my DS2500's.

15's with track tyres would be good.

For the seats it really depends on if you want a full on bucket or something useable on the road so the seats you have mentioned would be good but for a proper bucket you could consider Bimarco futura's.

And of course change all of the fluids and general service items and just give the car a really good check over to make sure its in tip top condition.

Whats the difference between the phase 1 and phase 2 airboxs? Will a phase 1 airbox fit straight onto a phase 2 car? Is there much benefit having a V6 airbox over a phase 1 airbox?

Yeah whiteline rear ARB everyone seems to think is a good idea so that could be one of the first things to do.

I've had fixed back bucket seats before for the road and they are alright but think I might be going towards a more comfortable reclining bucket seat. Changing the seats is mainly so I can use a harness on a track day but also to try (also with the small steering wheel) to make myself more comfortable driving the car as im 6ft 7.

Can you get new cup shocks from Renault still, do you know how much they are?

That's a good point about changing the fluids and doing a good service, help freshen everything up and give it a good check over.

rs2 manifold. close thread.

If only I could afford one of those, been out in both Dans and Lesleys/Chips and they are great pieces of kit!!

 

[Chip-mk1]

Yes you can get new cup shocks from renault, call adam and get them mail order : 01902 439264

Or I can get them for you when im next ordering something if you like.

 

[James-EP400]

Inlets did sod all, so much so I didn't even take them off when I sold it. RS tuner I did purely because not many had done it at the time and it helped with lumpy running from cold.

Not once did I think it made the car any better. To be honest I thought the same after putting H&R's on it after sportlines/koni combo!

Fair enough, I know the gains are probably going to be difficult to feel. Did you feel any difference with the RS tuner and inlets?

So a good spring/damper setup can feel the same as some decent coilovers then.... will keep that in mind

 

[Chip-mk1]

RS Tuner you really feel at low rpm in particular, and it gives you a higher limiter which is useful on track.

 

[James-EP400]

Yes you can get new cup shocks from renault, call adam and get them mail order : 01902 439264

Or I can get them for you when im next ordering something if you like.

Will probably have to wait until I get paid again to do much more for now. Think the first thing I will probably do is get rid of the s*** tyres on the car at the moment which give me no grip at all. Thinking probably get a set of Toyo T1R's which I have also thought are good value for money and quite a good tyre.

Do you know roughly how much a set of those cup dampers are from Renault? I was thinking of possibly buying a used set of Clio sport but probably depends on the difference in price.

 

[James-EP400]

RS Tuner you really feel at low rpm in particular, and it gives you a higher limiter which is useful on track.

Yeah I think that will be one of the things I would like to do, think I remember you saying it is just a generic map which up's the limiter to 7500 so from that it shouldn't matter with the mods I will be doing to the engine when I do that?

I've also found out my limiter is at 7,200 not 7,500 so it definately hasn't been mapped

 

[Chip-mk1]

Yeah the RS Tuner is just a generic map that works well upto basic breathing mods (ie fine for exhaust and filter, but not good enough for cams or rs2 etc)


Cup dampers are about 50 quid each new IIRC, and front top mounts roughly the same again

 

[James-EP400]

Yeah the RS Tuner is just a generic map that works well upto basic breathing mods (ie fine for exhaust and filter, but not good enough for cams or rs2 etc)


Cup dampers are about 50 quid each new IIRC, and front top mounts roughly the same again

Thats alright then, thought that was what you said about the RS Tuner. I will possibly do 197 cams when the cambelt etc are due next, they were last done in October 2009 so aren't due for another 18 months or so. So its deciding whether it is worth having the RS Tuner for 18 months or so only to have it mapped again if I did the 197 cams.

So roughly about £300 for new cup dampers and top mounts (that solid top mounts?)

 

[Chip-mk1]

No that is standard mounts I was referring to, Pure do good solid ones.

 

[James-EP400]

No that is standard mounts I was referring to, Pure do good solid ones.

Fair enough, might be worth upgrading the top mounts at the same time to solid ones.
One thing I didn't put earlier is are front or rear strut braces worth doing for the money? I know some people say not to bother just wondered whether you had used any before? I did notice a difference on my MG but I did do front & rear strut braces and rear anti roll bar all at once.

Another thing to do is a rolling road run at TSR to give me an idea of how strong my F4R is as having read stuff on here it seems there is quite a big difference between different engines

 

[MartinR]

Pure motorsport top mounts and brace (front) Rear is a waste of time imo.. But rear ARB is well recommended thing to do

 

[Chip-mk1]

Front brace if its the right type can help slightly. Rear will do nothing as suspension geometry on the rear is not effected at all by rear strut movement anyway.

 

[imprezaworks]

I love my current setup tbh.

decatted sscorpion
ktr induction kit
Rs tuner map
hc discs and carbone Lorraine rc5+ pads
cooksport ssprings
decent geometry set up -will be done tomo.

may invest in a white line at some stage

 

[James-EP400]

Pure motorsport top mounts and brace (front) Rear is a waste of time imo.. But rear ARB is well recommended thing to do

Yeah I had a look at their website £210 for top mounts and front brace, looks like a nice piece of kit. Think the rear ARB will be one of the first things I do. Are whiteline the only company which make a rear ARB for the Clio?

Front brace if its the right type can help slightly. Rear will do nothing as suspension geometry on the rear is not effected at all by rear strut movement anyway.

Yeah so thats why a rear ARB will make a difference and rear strut brace is a waste of time then!!

I love my current setup tbh.

decatted sscorpion
ktr induction kit
Rs tuner map
hc discs and carbone Lorraine rc5+ pads
cooksport ssprings
decent geometry set up -will be done tomo.

may invest in a white line at some stage

Decent geometry setup, thats a good point, I know Danpl6 has his done and recommended it. How does it feel today after you have done it?

 

[imprezaworks]

A country mile better mate. Thing is with these cars instead of trying to make it go like a Ferrari make sure it handles and stops ok first. At the end of the day that is the Clio forte

 

[sbridgey]

I got a decent geo setup on mine and it handled so much better afterwards, I had just fitted camber bolts so the toe was all over the place previously.

As Dan says getting it stopping and handling well is the first priority with these cars.

 

[James-EP400]

A country mile better mate. Thing is with these cars instead of trying to make it go like a Ferrari make sure it handles and stops ok first. At the end of the day that is the Clio forte

That's good to hear another person giving the full geometry setup the thumbs up! After I get some cup shocks, wishbones and decent tyres get that done and then see how it is. Along with the rear ARB and possibly some poly bushes when the rubber ones give up along the way that will probably be the handling done for a while!!

 

[James-EP400]

I got a decent geo setup on mine and it handled so much better afterwards, I had just fitted camber bolts so the toe was all over the place previously.

As Dan says getting it stopping and handling well is the first priority with these cars.

Excellent, getting a full people confirming the same thing is good, so you know that modification is worth doing. What difference did the camber bolts give you do you think? Sharper turn in?

 

[sbridgey]

Way more mid corner grip, I increased the toe out to 5 mins either side which made the turn in better, i am tempted to get it set to 10 mins either side at some point though.

 

[imprezaworks]

On std shocks you can use camber bolts to adjust, well the camber lol. But yeah aids turn in but lose a bit of straight line stability. It's been a while since I didn't want to stop driving the car. Think mine is set to around the same, the printout is in the car. Toe before was too much

 

[James-EP400]

All sounds good to me. Maybe add some camber bolts to my list then!! Sharper turn in also sounds really good

 

[mark smith87]

I've tried using a rear strut brace and it makes the back very hard and tends to lift the inside wheel on hard cornering which lowers the amount of grip at the back on track and makes it feel as if it wants to bounce on the wheel thats doing all the work so now I don't use the brace and find the back grips much better and is slightly softer without spoiling the traction. For braking DS2500 pads all round and DOT5.1 fluid with braided lines and Brembo high carbon front discs. The DS2500 pads work really well in all conditions and don't fade under repeated hard braking. Induction 172 airbox and high flow filter. K-Tec engine mountings and Powerflex dogbone bush. Exhaust Scorpion cat back stainless system. My car has done 19 track days and never ever had to fix anything at the track or afterwards. I'd say it's pretty well tried and tested now and reliable with the set up I'm running. I can leave the car sat outside in all weather and jump in it and go anywhere.

 

[Dan@SJM]

They lift the wheel in standard form anyway. The rear brace does nothing. Bar squeaking.

 

[Chip-mk1]

I've tried using a rear strut brace and it makes the back very hard and tends to lift the inside wheel on hard cornering which lowers the amount of grip at the back on track and makes it feel as if it wants to bounce on the wheel thats doing all the work

Are you sure you arent talking about a rear ARB but have called it a brace? because what a rear strut brace actually does in terms of suspension effects is:

 

[James-EP400]

I've tried using a rear strut brace and it makes the back very hard and tends to lift the inside wheel on hard cornering which lowers the amount of grip at the back on track and makes it feel as if it wants to bounce on the wheel thats doing all the work so now I don't use the brace and find the back grips much better and is slightly softer without spoiling the traction. For braking DS2500 pads all round and DOT5.1 fluid with braided lines and Brembo high carbon front discs. The DS2500 pads work really well in all conditions and don't fade under repeated hard braking. Induction 172 airbox and high flow filter. K-Tec engine mountings and Powerflex dogbone bush. Exhaust Scorpion cat back stainless system. My car has done 19 track days and never ever had to fix anything at the track or afterwards. I'd say it's pretty well tried and tested now and reliable with the set up I'm running. I can leave the car sat outside in all weather and jump in it and go anywhere.

Yeah, do you mean rear ARB not rear strut brace?

Having used the Brembo max / Ferodo DS 2500 combination a bit harder recently I do really like the combination, quite good from cold but really good once they warm up. Shall get a set of braided lines and dot 4 or dot 5.1 fluid.

Currently have taken off my pipercross viper and put the standard airbox back on with a pipercross panel filter in.

Will have to see if I can get another second hand exhaust system as mine is pretty loud and I don't like the twin look at the back. Either prefer a single 2.5"/3" slash which is high enough so the bumper is cut around it (like Danlp6) or a stealth system (chip-mk1/lesley) but either unfortunately will mean I need another rear bumper

 

[Dan@SJM]

James, I've got my rear arb fitted now along with some camber bolts. Your welcome to another drive if you want.

 

[James-EP400]

James, I've got my rear arb fitted now along with some camber bolts. Your welcome to another drive if you want.

Yeah if I could Dan as you have had a full geometry setup as well haven't you? What setting did you put the rear arb on, you tried both settings?

 

[cliokid182]

I love my current setup tbh.

decatted sscorpion
ktr induction kit
Rs tuner map
hc discs and carbone Lorraine rc5+ pads
cooksport ssprings
decent geometry set up -will be done tomo.

may invest in a white line at some stage

What is a geometry set up???

 

[cliokid182]

They lift the wheel in standard form anyway. The rear brace does nothing. Bar squeaking.

Lol my one is squeaking like fook, any idea's to stop it?? apart from gettin rid of it??