Best box for a ph1 172 Turbo?

[Aydon182]

Anyone know a good box for a ph1 172 turbo running 260bhp 245lbft torque?
I know one of the DCI models is a direct bolt on replacement? But what would be the best option for reliability ? Which box is best suited? Don't want to throw away unnecessary money doing a VAG conversion either really..

And no, my box hasn't blown up yet, but it will inevitably go in time so wondering what box will be a good replacement.

Cheers,
Aydon.

 

[Craig.]

Im also running 260bhp in a ph1 & have thought the same is there a better box, but unless you go VAG there isnt. The dci box youve mentioned is the dci80 box, however its not any stronger the only benifit you would get is a higher top end speed. Mine hits the limiter in 5th in no time when giving it the beans. so thats the only real reason to go for a dci box, & maybe so 1st gear isnt over with in an instance lol. But aslong as your not brutal with your changes it should be fine.

 

[Aydon182]

Im also running 260bhp in a ph1 & have thought the same is there a better box, but unless you go VAG there isnt. The dci box youve mentioned is the dci80 box, however its not any stronger the only benifit you would get is a higher top end speed. Mine hits the limiter in 5th in no time when giving it the beans. so thats the only real reason to go for a dci box, & maybe so 1st gear isnt over with in an instance lol. But aslong as your not brutal with your changes it should be fine.

Fair play mate, do you know the number for the phase 1 gearbox's jc5 something? I'll just have to find a low mileage healthy one for a replacement when she goes (if it does)
Are you running an LSD in your sunflower? How is she like for putting the power down?
We'll have to meet up sometime,
Got a custom rad being mocked up and figured I might get a new forge intercooler whilst I got the front bumper off.

 

[scotty2hotty81]

I picked up a universal forge intercooler of eBay for £80 it's been fine, it's worth keeping your eyes peeled.

 

[Craig.]

Im not sure which jc5 box the ph1 uses i always forget lol. But if you intend on keeping the car a while its worth snapping one up for a spare if its a good one.

No im not running an lsd as at 260brake it was completey fine at putting the power down, its all polly bushed & solid top mounts & good tyres which all helps. ill see what its like once its forged then maybe look into an lsd. As scotts said defo keep an eye out on ebay for an intercooler.

 

[Silent_Scone]

There's no sensible replacement although there is someone on here who is working on a VAG replacement which will hopefully help to make things a lot more interchangeable.

 

[Cristi_Xp]

I believe the ph1 gearbox code is jc5-089

Fair play mate, do you know the number for the phase 1 gearbox's jc5 something? I'll just have to find a low mileage healthy one for a replacement when she goes (if it does)
Are you running an LSD in your sunflower? How is she like for putting the power down?
We'll have to meet up sometime,
Got a custom rad being mocked up and figured I might get a new forge intercooler whilst I got the front bumper off.

 

[wag1]

What about the diesel boxcode? Would love a better 2nd gear

 

[barnesautos]

I believe the ph1 gearbox code is jc5-089

That's what's in mine JC5 089

I have a DCI 80 also , I'll check that number

 

[Martin_172]

JC5 DCi 80 box is ur best bet, no stronger than the 172 box but better suited ratios

 

[Cupman29]

Surely the ratios in the dci 80 bow would be all wrong. 1st gear would give you about 45-50mph, 2nd about 90mph and so on.

 

[Chip-mk1]

dci box should suit the Torquey midrange well.

Shame there isn't a strong simple option though, LSD a must at that power level to really use it hard on track.

 

[Martin_172]

Surely the ratios in the dci 80 bow would be all wrong. 1st gear would give you about 45-50mph, 2nd about 90mph and so on.

not quite that extreme i would imagine but thats the general idea, thats what you want on a turbo car with the torque to pull through it!

 

[wag1]

I would love a second gear that pulled through 60mph tbh. Then at least make 90 in 3rd.

I hate having to change into 5th just before I hit the line at Santa Pod :|

 

[scotty2hotty81]

Jc5128 is what steve had in his trophy

 

[Scrooge]

I would love a second gear that pulled through 60mph tbh. Then at least make 90 in 3rd.

I hate having to change into 5th just before I hit the line at Santa Pod :|

I have a dci 80 box you can have for £80 if you want (im in essex)

 

[Tutuur]

R5 Gtt box has perfect ratio's for a turbo'ed 172, just need to swap bellhousing and speedo drive depending on what you have...

 

[Cupman29]

not quite that extreme i would imagine but thats the general idea, thats what you want on a turbo car with the torque to pull through it!

Mine will soon be turbo'd but the dci 80 ratios for track use would be too long imho. I'm not sure what the ratios are but I would imagine they are 35-40% longer than the 172's ratios which would not be good even in a turbo car. The performance increase of the turbo would be lost by the leggy box.

Has anyone ever tried one?

R5GTT might be an option as Tutuur said.

 

[Aydon182]

Has the 197 box ever been used? Is it a simple swap and does anyone know what they are like at that sort of bhp/torque?

Also Scrooge , I would be interested in the DCI 80 gearbox, I'm near Essex too.

Also what's the R5GTT gearbox like strength wise? I should imagine that's built to take a high torque figure ?

Cheers,
Aydon.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Has the 197 box ever been used? Is it a simple swap and does anyone know what they are like at that sort of bhp/torque?

Also Scrooge , I would be interested in the DCI 80 gearbox, I'm near Essex too.

Also what's the R5GTT gearbox like strength wise? I should imagine that's built to take a high torque figure ?

Cheers,
Aydon.

197 box isnt a direct swap, you need different sump etc too IIRC, and then the subframe is in the way so needs modding too I believe.
Also, they arent considered any stronger, if you search on here there are quite a few people who have had problems with them.

 

[Tutuur]

Well the gtt box is just a jb3 so strenth wise nothing special. It's just the ratio's i was referring to.

Imo the driver and tuning is the weakest link in keeping a chocolate box together..

 

[Chip-mk1]

Well the gtt box is just a jb3 so strenth wise nothing special. It's just the ratio's i was referring to.

Imo the driver and tuning is the weakest link in keeping a chocolate box together..

While I agree that a degree of mechanical sympathy can help, I dont want to have to drive around nursing some p1ss weak renault gearbox, I like being able to put my foot down as hard as I want when I want and change gear quickly.

 

[Tutuur]

Me 2, with stock F7R no problems this far but when turbo'ing things change rappidly...

 

[wag1]

Ive been savage to my JC5 williams box. All be it being a new renault item. Its dont around about 2500 miles. Went up Pod 17 times in a day and launched every one

Dont really know what people moan about. Do they really expect a performance enhanced car to be super reliable. Mine come out on weekends and the RAC breakdown number comes with me

By the way, does anyone have experience with a dci 80 box. I.e what the speeds in each gear are like. My turbo only revs to 6500

 

[Chip-mk1]

Ive broken 8 boxes on my F7R mk1 now, its just a pain in the ass keep changing them.

I dont expect stuff to last forever, but they are far weaker than is acceptable when used properly hard on track IMHO

 

[Jaff.]

diff is slowly giving up on my standard megane F7R thats 150 bhp if im lucky and theyre quite common to go on other meganes too.

im inclined to agree with chip when it comes to these boxes. they judt dont like hight revvs

 

[Mike_Shand]

Aydon you must be the guy I met last Friday at Medway very nice Clio! Mines the oddysey blue ph1 on turinis if you see it around

Mike

 

[Aydon182]

Aydon you must be the guy I met last Friday at Medway very nice Clio! Mines the oddysey blue ph1 on turinis if you see it around

Mike

Lol cool, that was me.
I thought yours was the silver ph1 with green alloys but fair play.
We'll have to meet up or something.

 

[Tutuur]

Lol, have to be something off the megane jc5's then, mine has done 326dkm (more then 200.000 miles) and it's still holding strong.
Although the synchro's are getting whorse and it's leaking all over the place!

And yes, i know full history of the car and it's still the original box...

 

[Jaff.]

Lol, have to be something off the megane jc5's then, mine has done 326dkm (more then 200.000 miles) and it's still holding strong.
Although the synchro's are getting whorse and it's leaking all over the place!

And yes, i know full history of the car and it's still the original box...

look at how many clio boxes fail too though...
couple that with the fact that the megane has the same issues with less power and it makes you realise how shite jc5's actually are.

unless there was a "good batch" that are stronger

 

[Chip-mk1]

Lol, have to be something off the megane jc5's then, mine has done 326dkm (more then 200.000 miles) and it's still holding strong.
Although the synchro's are getting whorse and it's leaking all over the place!

And yes, i know full history of the car and it's still the original box...

Do you do many trackdays, and how high do you rev it.

Mine revs to 7850rpm, and I take it there very frequently, over half the miles my car does are on tracks.
On the road, im sure they will last far far longer as you are only goign to be using high rpm a very small percentage of the time, so no time for any heatbuild up etc or for oil to be really thrown off the cogs.
I think its spending a big percentage of the time at high rpm which is the real killer, based on my experience with my own cars and others that I have mapped.
Torque doesnt really seem to bother the boxes a huge amount within reason.

 

[T.Trophy]

Right let's solve the mystery of the JC5 128 gearbox. I ran it in my Turbo Trophy at 341bhp and 374bhp and found it considerably better than a stock 182 gear box. Does it have the best ratios? No, but I couldnt be bothered to have a custom one built and the 128 box is pretty cheap and close enough to what I wanted so I figured it was worth a go. It's worth pointing out though that AndyRG tried this box in his Clio turbo running 260bhp and he hated it.

Anyway here's a link to a Renault info page
http://www.renault.com/SiteCollecti...tes/6586_4vues_et_caracteristiquesClio_GB.pdf

As you can see it lists the speed for each gear per 1000rpm in KPH, 1KPH = 0.621MPH so I'll use this to convert it to MPH per 1000rpm then I'll assume everyone is aiming for the stock 7.5k RPM limit so will multiply them by 7.5 to give max speed per gear.

1st Gear = 8.69KPH = 5.396MPH = 40.47MPH @ 7.5k RPM
2nd Gear = 15.82KPH = 9.824MPH = 73.68MPH @ 7.5k RPM
3rd Gear = 24.51KPH = 15.22MPH = 114.15MPH @ 7.5k RPM
4th Gear = 33.34KPH = 20.7MPH = 155.25MPH @ 7.5k RPM
5th Gear = 42.83KPH = 26.59MPH = 199.42MPH @ 7.5k RPM

Its easy to see that they are quite long in comparison to a stock box, but you have to remember I was running double the power and torque of a normal Clio 182 and it was brilliant on both road and track. It even had a really relaxed RPM when cruising in 5th on the motorway which gave surprising economy.

Steve

 

[Aydon182]

Thanks alot, steve

What car does the jc5 128 box come from ?

And is it a direct swap for a ph1 172?

 

[Craig.]

DCi 80

 

[Craig.]

Yeah it's a straight swop as its the same JC5 box, I think your ph1 box will be better suited for the power your running tho imo.

 

[Aydon182]

Yeah it's a straight swop as its the same JC5 box, I think your ph1 box will be better suited for the power your running tho imo.

Why's that?

 

[Cupman29]

Why's that?

Cause you're only running 260bhp. Might be ok for pottering about town and crusing on the motorway but why would you want to go for 260bhp in a clio to do that?

Have a read through Andyrg's project about using this box. First hand experience of the box at the power level you have.

 

[Tutuur]

Do you do many trackdays, and how high do you rev it.

Mine revs to 7850rpm, and I take it there very frequently, over half the miles my car does are on tracks.
On the road, im sure they will last far far longer as you are only goign to be using high rpm a very small percentage of the time, so no time for any heatbuild up etc or for oil to be really thrown off the cogs.
I think its spending a big percentage of the time at high rpm which is the real killer, based on my experience with my own cars and others that I have mapped.
Torque doesnt really seem to bother the boxes a huge amount within reason.

i think you're right mate, i also trash it but my rev limit is still set at 6750 and only thing i do is sprint from traffic lights and sometimes a high speed run on the motorway....

downside off the jc5 128 imo is the 1st and 2nd are quite short...

 

[Chip-mk1]

i think you're right mate, i also trash it but my rev limit is still set at 6750 and only thing i do is sprint from traffic lights and sometimes a high speed run on the motorway....

Yeah, its a fairly different sort of use then TBH, so probably not directly comparable.

If your limiter is at 6750 your car probably only spends a fraction of a percent of its life over 6Krpm, where as in a track session I am probably at over 6Krpm for literally 50% of the time, and over 7K for more than 10% probably

 

[Tutuur]

there are quite a few dutch guys using valvers and willy's on track and they break boxes often too, they were debating on placing an oil cooler to keep temps down. if its not the torgue that kills them at n/a power levels then probably would be the temp off the oil...