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Best way to get torque? (N/A)
- Thread starter Jakey92
- Start date
SharkyUK
ClioSport Club Member
An exhaust will make very little difference to torque levels on a standard NA engine. It will be more placebo than anything.
To get relatively decent (in NA terms) levels of torque you'll need some wilder cams, ITB's with good length trumpets, or something akin to that. You'll also need deep pockets.
To get relatively decent (in NA terms) levels of torque you'll need some wilder cams, ITB's with good length trumpets, or something akin to that. You'll also need deep pockets.
RS172 Flamer
An exhaust will make very little difference to torque levels on a standard NA engine. It will be more placebo than anything.
To get relatively decent (in NA terms) levels of torque you'll need some wilder cams, ITB's with good length trumpets, or something akin to that. You'll also need deep pockets.
Thank you. As I said, I already know I'm not looking at big figures but I'm just wanting to know for instance what induction kit is best for torque and which version exhaust is better etc.
Does anybody have the actual bhp not ps and lbs/ft figures for the two standard engines?
RS172 Flamer
Here we go again
You want torque from an exhaust and an induction kit? yep, here we go again indeed.
169 and 179
standard figures rarely happen
standard figures rarely happen
Tim.
ClioSport Club Member
Do you want the meaningless book value, given that these engines seem to have such wide variances from the factory?
What budget do you have to play with?
Martin_172
ClioSport Club Member
182 exhaust manifold gives you more mid range torque.
I went from standard 172 with 173bhp/145lb/ft to same car with 182 manifold, decat, matched inlets, itg panel filter, samco bend and k-tec stealth and ended up with 188bhp/159lb/ft
I went from standard 172 with 173bhp/145lb/ft to same car with 182 manifold, decat, matched inlets, itg panel filter, samco bend and k-tec stealth and ended up with 188bhp/159lb/ft
Thats more gain than I would expect TBH, do you have the two rolling road printouts for comparison? (just to be nosey at intake temps and stuff I mean)
172 Ph1/Scooby MY00
I rarely bother to reply to these threads anymore, but you're wasting your money going for power in an RS Clio. Get it on a track and learn how to drive it at the limit and you'll find it's fast enough (unless this is more about Maccy D car park stuff!).
RS172 Flamer
It's simple, if you don't have a genuine input then leave the conversation. Do you not understand a simple concept of tuning? My question in asking for different individuals experiences with the wide variety of equipment available was not intended for you to make snide remarks.
For instance, Martin172 gave me information on what certain modifications did to his car. This is the type of response I welcome!
Thank you, I understand the average standard 172 would produce about 160bhp at this time in it's life?
I'll let you know when I sell my 1.6 Clio. For the time being I'm looking for the best combination of fast road mods. From what I've read in this conversation and previous threads, it seems that good mid range can be found with a 182 exhaust manifold and catalytic converter also long trumpet individual throttle bodies. But I'm not going to go down the throttle body route, I'm thinking either RS2 inlet or Cup Racer induction set up (battery relocation and possibly fuse box relocation)
Knuckles
ClioSport Admin
Rs2 and 197 cams
200bhp max power and a linear 155ftlb across the rev range
200bhp max power and a linear 155ftlb across the rev range
I bloody well hope not or I'll have to make a 160 cup badge.
Ive only seen them do 200 when making torque in the 140s tbh. For torque of 155 you will need it timed differently (and ideally standard cams) and then you will be back down more like 190.
Knuckles
ClioSport Admin
Every days a school day. Op, pm chip
RS172 Flamer
Apparently 172 cups hold onto the power better with not having the Air con auxiliary on the engine. But even still they don't produced 172 bhp as previously stated
I've still got a copy of that graph @ 190bhp & 155lbs/ft with nearly a perfectly held torque line.
Was that produced on a standard 182 with just an RS2 inlet?
There have been a few in that ballpark on standard engine and standard cams. Generally with the cam timing nudged a little though.
Needs decat cat and decent exhaust too, manifold makes no big difference really, couple lbft i would say but that's an educated guess only as I've not done scientific testing on the two as I have no reason to do so when I know the gains are marginal anyway.
Needs decat cat and decent exhaust too, manifold makes no big difference really, couple lbft i would say but that's an educated guess only as I've not done scientific testing on the two as I have no reason to do so when I know the gains are marginal anyway.
RS172 Flamer
I wish! Someone told me de-catting an N/A engine hinders the back pressure, is this true?
I'd ask them what they think back pressure is and why a 4 stroke wants it?
If they can answer the first bit they are certainly going to struggle on the second!
flol.
You do not want back pressure on any 4 stroke, unless it's caused by a turbo!
A shed
Backpressure is baaad in n/a but go too big and you lose the scavaging in the exhaust which is crucial.
Its a fine balance
Its a fine balance
Supercharged engines don't want back pressure either.
Back pressure is always bad for all 4 stroke engines but on a turbo you have no choice but to have some as the turbo relies on a pressure differential before and after it.
Gas speed increase from a smaller exhaust pipe is good for low down torque on an n/a engine. But that's about generating negative back pressure at the end of the exhaust stroke. It's not about having positive back pressure. That's always a bad thing.
Gas speed increase from a smaller exhaust pipe is good for low down torque on an n/a engine. But that's about generating negative back pressure at the end of the exhaust stroke. It's not about having positive back pressure. That's always a bad thing.
RS172 Flamer
I think it was the part about negative back pressure that they were referring to, probably me just not remembering very well.
Thank you all for the comments on de-cat/back pressure. Should I just look into getting a de-cat for my 172 exhaust manifold?
If I don't get an RS2 inlet manifold then would it be worth it to get my standard inlet manifold ported?
Fiesta ST2 MP215
Porting is ok, but for the money, such as needing the belts etc done at the same time, you might as well chuck cams and a remap in there, you'll be looking at over a grand for the job, RS2 seems the way forward with this.
Porting won't be as effective as an RS2 either.
Porting won't be as effective as an RS2 either.
Best N/A torque will come from cams, ITBs, headwork (port/polish), 182 manifold and a straight through exhaust.
Mine is 184bhp and 173lb/ft on the Dyno Dynamics rollers at RS Tuning, that's with Piper cams, headwork, ported inlet, 182 manifold, sports cat and KTec exhaust.
Another car of similar spec (I'm not sure if they ran a sport cat or decat and what exhaust but the same mods otherwise) on the same rollers ran 186.6bhp and 173lb/ft.
I'd like to add ITBs which would probably increase the power by around 20bhp and the torque figure would go up too. Saying that though, £2000ish for ITBs and an ECU before paying out for mapping is a lot of money for little gain.
Mine is 184bhp and 173lb/ft on the Dyno Dynamics rollers at RS Tuning, that's with Piper cams, headwork, ported inlet, 182 manifold, sports cat and KTec exhaust.
Another car of similar spec (I'm not sure if they ran a sport cat or decat and what exhaust but the same mods otherwise) on the same rollers ran 186.6bhp and 173lb/ft.
I'd like to add ITBs which would probably increase the power by around 20bhp and the torque figure would go up too. Saying that though, £2000ish for ITBs and an ECU before paying out for mapping is a lot of money for little gain.
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RS172 Flamer
I'm thought porting the inlet manifold is only around £200? and it wouldn't require the head to come off?
They are some decent figures! I'd like that chunk of torque plus RS Tuning are very close to where I live
Exactly that, won't be going down the ITB's route no matter how appealing they are
The gains from a ported inlet are really marginal on standard cams, a rolling road might tell the difference, but you driving it wont, although people on here love the placebo effect and always comment on "improved throttle response" and such like when they fit one, lol.
Ive got a set of ported inlets for sale for 80 quid collected from Notts so not too far from you, but realistically if you just fit them you wont notice any difference, and even with cams and a remap its going to tiny gains.
Belts are required to swap cams, but not to swap inlets.
Ive got a set of ported inlets for sale for 80 quid collected from Notts so not too far from you, but realistically if you just fit them you wont notice any difference, and even with cams and a remap its going to tiny gains.
Belts are required to swap cams, but not to swap inlets.
Careful with looking at peak torque figures alone, The RS2 for example looks quite poor when you see "150 lbft" and a standard inlet can often do 155, but the difference is the RS2 does it from 2.5K to 6.5K and the standard inlet does it from 5k-6k, so the rs2 with the "lower" figure tends to win for 3/4 of the rev range, as that 150 you get everywhere, where as the 155 on a standard inlet will be accompanied by lots of places it makes 140 or less, in fact Ive seen them make as low as 125 near the bottom of the rev range on standard inlet and then 150 on the RS2.
Its a lot of expense and generally you will lose a bit of fuel economy and you cant have cruise control etc either.Exactly that, won't be going down the ITB's route no matter how appealing they are
197 cams will drop mid range torque vs standard in conjunction with RS2
Agreed, as per my earlier post on it.
Chip-mk1 said:
For a road car I prefer the 172 cams TBH
I noticed a huge difference in mine before and after the engine work. But I did other things at the same time such as take some weight out and shortened the gearing slightly so its a combination of all that really.
The engine mods cost the same as an RS2 inlet, but now I've got a rebuilt head with Supertech valves and ARP conrod bolts so hopefully the engine is 'safer'. What I'd like to see is how my engine responds to a RS2 inlet, however I don't want to risk wasting money on one to get poor results.
The engine mods cost the same as an RS2 inlet, but now I've got a rebuilt head with Supertech valves and ARP conrod bolts so hopefully the engine is 'safer'. What I'd like to see is how my engine responds to a RS2 inlet, however I don't want to risk wasting money on one to get poor results.
Knuckles
ClioSport Admin
Will you explain this further please
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