Bitcoins (and other crypto currencies)

[Addicted]

Im happy to discuss the other coins, but my viewpoint will always be that the whole concept of one currency for the world which is owned by no one and usable to trade with anyone, which to me is what bitcoin was always meant to be is getting chipped away with every get rich scheme that comes along. At this rate there will soon instead of being a digital currency to simplify tractions from multiple currencies be more digital ones than there ever were paper ones!

Without quoting the whole previous post as its huge, I agree with the view of (most) new cryptos that are there just to make money and will hurt the reputation of crypto in general and make it harder for it to become more mainstream, and with there being around 5 released each week (its probably more but thats a rough figure) it's not a good thing.

There are a couple of new coins that are/have come out which get around the "ponzi" idea by implementing Kimoto's Gravity Well difficulty algorithm so that there is not a huge amount of coins distributed to few miners, but is fair from the start which is the main thing. Something like this with the implementation of something else useful for the blockchain (like Folding at Home), could (imo) very well rival Bitcoin.

But from a mining point of view, until it stops becoming profitable then people will continue to do it. Although I will say that it has slowed down a lot right now so hopefully this is a sign that people are catching on about the new ones.

It also comes down to the whales with huge amounts of money, ignoring the new people. There's some coins which are considered worthless (at 1 Satoshi per coin), but if you put 1 BTC into it, and it goes to 2 Satoshi (which surprisingly happens), you've double your money (aside from exchange fees). Also if that coin ever did take off into normal prices, a small invest (to a big player) of like $10k would net you huge amounts.

I guess my post came off a bit too defensive, but that's how I interpreted yours

Addicted. Just if you read back a few points to my comment about mining not making money.

Fair enough I tried it on a coin that doesn't seem to be worth it, is the way to make anything out of mining jumping on new coins before most people hear about it? My computer pushes out about 900kh/s so definitely not going to get rich, but if it can pay for some new computer parts then wicked.

Yeah that's just it, as Chip said the key with most coins is to get in new when nobody is mining it so that you get the maximum reward, so that when it does get popular you have a good amount that ends up being a lot of money. For actual profitability you can look at coinchoose.com or coinwarz.com if you did want to mine, but you'd have to ensure you watch the market as once they are the most profitable they don't stay there for long so it's more predicting which will gain value next and mine it before others do.

Aside from that, I only have 1.75Mh/s currently (2x 290's), and it is very much worth it, but it all depends how much time you're willing to put into it to maximise the profitabiliy, but also other costs like power etc.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Mining in a way that makes good use of computing power is a nice idea.
At the moment digital coins are monstrously unsound from an ecological viewpoint

 

[Addicted]

Yeah, CureCoin was in the works late last year, but there's been no recent progress so can only assume there's some big issue they've come across :'(

There's also PrimeCoin which has found new prime chains (dont know anything about it personally), but a short link here: http://www.primecoiner.com/primecoin-network-breaks-world-records/ how useful it is I've no clue though.

 

[Chip-mk1]

I'm not convinced there are many problems where computing power alone is a real solution to be honest.

Nice idea in theory though if it could feed starving children etc.

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

I've read a lot of comments of people getting stuck with exchanging coins. Is this a big problem or just luck of the draw?

 

[Chip-mk1]

I've read a lot of comments of people getting stuck with exchanging coins. Is this a big problem or just luck of the draw?

Depends what coin you have and what you are trying to exchange it for?

Bitcoin to and from cash is a bit of a pain, and anything else the only way you are getting to cash realistically is via BTC as far as I am aware although Im sure Addicted will know more as obviously thats what he is into.

 

[Chip-mk1]

I guess my post came off a bit too defensive, but that's how I interpreted yours

Lol, just noticed that, if that was your shortened post not the long ranty one I obviously had a lucky escape, ha ha.

But (as im sure you have no realised) I wasnt actually having a go at you, was just pointing out that I think the people buying these alt coins from you are mugs and that I think it harms BTC's ability to be taken seriously, but I dont think you are doing something morally wrong or anything like that, its a purely speculative market at the moment while these thing are in reality just investment vehicles for hopes and dreams and not a real currency.

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

The whole digital currency game is a pretty exciting one I think. Imagine walking into a convenience store in 10 years time and saying "do you take bitcoin?" Lol

 

[Addicted]

I've read a lot of comments of people getting stuck with exchanging coins. Is this a big problem or just luck of the draw?

Depends what coin you have and what you are trying to exchange it for?

Bitcoin to and from cash is a bit of a pain, and anything else the only way you are getting to cash realistically is via BTC as far as I am aware although Im sure @Addicted will know more as obviously thats what he is into.

Exactly as above, depends what you're trying to cash in/out from.

You can buy bitcoins easy from localbitcoins (has bank transfer, paypal and other methods, full escrowed), and from Feb 28th (I think) ZipZap will allow you to buy BTC from 28,000 places within the UK via cash deposit at Supermarkets, Petrol Stations etc - http://www.zipzapinc.com/

Getting it from exchanges is a royal pain in the arse for UK people right now, but IS possible, its just not fun. I went from £ --£ to EUR--> Transfer Wise --EUR to USD--> Bitstamp where I then converted to Bitcoin.

There's also ATM's in the works, but how far on they are and how many there will be is another question!

 

[rctempire]

Quite liking how PandaCoin is more valuable than DOGE. Whats going on there like?

 

[Chip-mk1]

Quite liking how PandaCoin is more valuable than DOGE. Whats going on there like?

Are you looking at individual coin costs or market capitalisation?

 

[rctempire]

just on coinedup and looking at why doge is so low.

 

[Chip-mk1]

just on coinedup and looking at why doge is so low.

Because its a joke coin that there are billions of seems like the most logical reason its got a low value per coin?

But that said, its got quite high capitalisation just from the number of people playing about with it at the moment.

 

[mace¬]

Is Bitcoin going tits up?

just keep seeing stories of exchanges offline, people resigning, blocking of currency withdrawl, fraud, possible vulnerabilities?

Is it some pretty big organisation trying to bring it down?

 

[rctempire]

MXGOX withdrew which isn't helping the market. So people are panicking.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Is Bitcoin going tits up?

just keep seeing stories of exchanges offline, people resigning, blocking of currency withdrawl, fraud, possible vulnerabilities?

Is it some pretty big organisation trying to bring it down?

Ive never seen any report of a proper vulnerability in bitcoin, it genuinely appears to be flawless.

People do stupid stuff like put their wallet in the hands of others in poorly secured online wallets and lose money that way, but you wouldnt call pounds notes faulty cause you gave a load to some bloke you didnt know to look after and he didnt do so well.

Or exchanges are badly secured etc.

But the public arent good at spotting the difference.

 

[Gally]

Is Bitcoin going tits up?

just keep seeing stories of exchanges offline, people resigning, blocking of currency withdrawl, fraud, possible vulnerabilities?

Is it some pretty big organisation trying to bring it down?

I'm laughing at the whole concept of a made up currency having issues online. It's imaginary money.

 

[Chip-mk1]

I'm laughing at the whole concept of a made up currency having issues online. It's imaginary money.

All modern money is essentially imaginary since it was divorced from gold. It's just tokens people choose to attach a value to.
and at least with bit coins a politician can't just suddenly decided to print a load more and devalue your savings.

If it takes off properly in years to come the world will be a better place IMHO.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Ps

The whole concept of an "exchange" is one that goes against what bitcoin is supposed to be in the first place of course, its long term future as the worlds only currency doesnt rely on such things.
(not that I think that utopia will ever happen of course)

But am just making the point that none of these dramatic events, are really anything to do with bitcoin or what its meant to be.

 

[mace¬]

Ive never seen any report of a proper vulnerability in bitcoin, it genuinely appears to be flawless.

No, you are right. It was a glitch in the exchange not bitcoin.

 

[Addicted]

MtGox twitter cleared from all tweets, MtGox's CEO resigned as lead chairman from the Bitcoin Foundation, MtGox ceased trading and their homepage suggestions an aquisition, but in reality they're f**ked and rumours are they owe 750,000 bitcoins from the Malleability attack, though highly unlikely its that much.

Either way, giant s**tstorm created, and hope we can move past Gox once and for all.


Basically it's Gox and their fails catching up to them, the next few months will be interesting. Imo it could crash down back to a low price, or we could go sky high.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Sadly there is a massive leap from people just buying bitcoins cause they think they are worth something, and actually GENUINELY using them as a currency.
But without that leap, its tied to the reliability of exchanges

 

[brisa4984]

just goes to show how premature the whole idea is right?

if i had that money stolen from the bank id get it alll back. I very much doubt theres a similiar garantee for bitcoin investment?!!!

 

[Chip-mk1]

just goes to show how premature the whole idea is right?

if i had that money stolen from the bank id get it alll back. I very much doubt theres a similiar garantee for bitcoin investment?!!!

There will be guarentees at all ever for anything bitcoin related, its the same as losing actual cash.

 

[Gally]

There will be guarentees at all ever for anything bitcoin related, its the same as losing actual cash.

It's not. Hence 2 guys standing outside an office with signs.

Virtual currency! Really? The whole idea is simply insane.

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

Like Chip says though. It's no more virtual than the dollar. Except it's not as adopted.

 

[Addicted]

Exactly. The dollar has no value aside from what we give it anyway.

Ok sure you have more protections with a bank, but until those regulations are put in place for Crypto, then you have to either be your own bank, or just have a clue about what you're doing

 

[Chip-mk1]

It's not. Hence 2 guys standing outside an office with signs.

Virtual currency! Really? The whole idea is simply insane.

Sorry mate. Typo. It should say "there will be no guarentees at all ever..."

and currency is is just a token people decide is worth something. In the case of a pound or dollar it's then issued by governments in the case of gold or bitcoins or diamonds it has to be mined and there is a finite supply.

 

[Chip-mk1]

gally you do realise that the vast majority of pounds and dollars now are purely virtual as well? They don't actually exist physically in most cases. Just an amount on a balance sheet.

 

[brisa4984]

It's not. Hence 2 guys standing outside an office with signs.

Virtual currency! Really? The whole idea is simply insane.

i like the idea of a "get rich quick" philosophy but 99/100 they always go to s**t.

remember when people started to trade money for virtual points and game character warlords with 40,000 death points for cash. Then there was a full exchange rate with game points to sterling. I thought people were spacko then.

 

[brisa4984]

Exactly. The dollar has no value aside from what we give it anyway.

Ok sure you have more protections with a bank, but until those regulations are put in place for Crypto, then you have to either be your own bank, or just have a clue about what you're doing

or just big balls.

I understand the wealthiest would have taken huge risks but meh.. ill leave this to you guys and ill take part when or if i can buy it in the post office

the dollar has a value because you can trade it for a commodity, and it fluctuates interchangably one influencing the other. Understandibly it was once used for a transatlantic flight/ pr stunt. So why does the bitcoin vary in price.. what determines its value. Whats stopping somone mining.?

from what i gather. All i need is some great server things, money to pay the large eon bill, and have some tech wizard to make sure you never use ctrl-alt-delete ?

 

[Gally]

gally you do realise that the vast majority of pounds and dollars now are purely virtual as well? They don't actually exist physically in most cases. Just an amount on a balance sheet.

Of course and at the click of a button the world could end up at zero but it's infinitely safer than something dreamed up in a guys bedroom where people can gets coins from "mining" using a webpage/computer/hyper server or whatever.

You simply cannot compare proper currency to these new age coins. I'm sorry.

You also have physical money still. Even if it is just metal and paper.

 

[BoatNonce]

If you look after your wallet yourself rather than giving it to some random company, then you do have the money and nobody can steal it or damage it unless they access it physically. Just like your pennies and pounds.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Of course and at the click of a button the world could end up at zero but it's infinitely safer than something dreamed up in a guys bedroom where people can gets coins from "mining" using a webpage/computer/hyper server or whatever.

You simply cannot compare proper currency to these new age coins. I'm sorry.

You also have physical money still. Even if it is just metal and paper.

Market forces can decide tomorrow a dollar is worthless or a bitcoin is worthless. That much they have in common.

The US government can decide tomorrow (like it's don't recently with quantative easing) to just issue a load more currency and render all the ones in circulation less valuable. But with bitcoin no one can.

The principle is far better tbh but it would require people to understand and get behind it. And few will anytime soon.

 

[Addicted]

Tbh, if you look at the technology behind it, its far from dreamed up in a guys bedroom, but I get your view! The majority of people that dislike it are the people that do not understand it, no offence intended!

If you think making money in your bedroom is bad, the Federal Reserve basically prints $40 billion a month, which is pretty much f**king over the USD as we know it. (didn't see Chips post, he basically said this lol)

 

[rctempire]

Bankrupt ehh - MtGox
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-25233230

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...vestors-getting-hundreds-millions-pounds.html

http://gigaom.com/2014/02/28/game-o...-filed-for-bankruptcy-protection-reports-say/

 

[rctempire]

So what happened? Everyone disappear from Crypto-currency?

 

[Chip-mk1]

I think its too soon possibly, the world seems to have lost interest rather than gained it recently.

 

[rctempire]

From my participation in Crypto it seems really busy. Its just a real mind trick getting into it.

 

[Addicted]

It's hugely busy, I just haven't had time to post here, as I still have no internet at home

Lots and lots of continued momentum, so it's all good to be honest.