Sunflower Ph1 172
Really flying with this now, look forward to seeing it all painted up.
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Bit more done the other night. Roughly fitted the two best condition wings, then did the two front aero catches on the bonnet. You can see the pin locations for those on the top of the slam panel. Once they were in the correct position I could work out where the rear catches should be. Ended up using some 25mm x 5mm bar bent to 90deg, thick enough to avoid any flex. Welded these onto the chassis to two points that were already there (the bonnet runners previously bolted to them) - these will mount the pin itself..
Just needs painting now, along with all the other bits. Picked up the paint earlier today so just need to make a start on the panels now!
Just needs painting now, along with all the other bits. Picked up the paint earlier today so just need to make a start on the panels now!
Sunflower Ph1 172
Catches look pretty neat and tidy compared to the rollers previously.
Yeah, going to be making a start on some of the panels either this evening or tomorrow evening. Doors/Wings/Bonnet/Mtec Kit/Bootlid etc, then probably do the shell in one go on the bank holiday weekend. Got the panels at the factory so I don't need to go up to the car to be doing those which should make it a bit easier.
Not much been happening (well picture wise anyway)
I've welded up some of the holes on the bulkhead and have been spraying the panels. Bootlid/Bonnet and a few other bits are done. Planning on moving the black shell tomorrow to give me enough room to paint the shell over the weekend hopefully. Once thats done it can be bolted back together. Proper update soon!
I've welded up some of the holes on the bulkhead and have been spraying the panels. Bootlid/Bonnet and a few other bits are done. Planning on moving the black shell tomorrow to give me enough room to paint the shell over the weekend hopefully. Once thats done it can be bolted back together. Proper update soon!
Bit of a change in plans as I was going to use Marham to test the car but its now been postponed until the end of May so I've got a bit more time. I've been painting panels over the past few weeks when I've had a bit of free time here and there, the majority of things are done bar the shell now. I ended up using a light grey high build primer (as £27/5L vs £100+/5L for a color) can't be justified at this point, considering it does not have a cage and if something needs modifying/welding once its been used I dont want to be grinding off more expensive paint. Once I'm happy with the car/shell I will paint it properly once and for all - putting the effort in with the prep and primer should pay off in the long run anyway whenever that may be.
Hopefully get round to doing the shell in the next week or so once I know all the welding/modifications have been done. I had already cut out the standard servo mount on the N/S (same place on all E30s) and welded it up. Also plated up any other holes that are not needed in the bulkhead. The main reason everything was being blanked is I was going to swap the standard servo/master cylinder setup for an aftermarket pedal box - allowing me to choose separate master cylinders for front and rear.
Although the lead time on the type I wanted was 2 weeks+, and Marham was 3 weeks away, so not enough time for any errors. So I ended up forgetting that idea and making a one-off setup as below. Since then Marham has been postponed so in hindsight I could have actually gone with the pedal box, but I've made it work now so there's no need for it as of yet.
As I have previously mentioned the Servo/MC on an E30 is usually on the N/S (regardless of it being RHD or LHD), so it was always going to be an issue with the SR20DET having the exhaust/turbo on that side also. Last time I moved the whole servo/MC setup over by ~40mm to get the required clearance, but it was never an ideal solution.
I decided on this shell I wanted to move the whole setup to the other side, with it being RHD, it would be directly behind the pedalbox like on a Clio for example. The problem was as far as myself and a couple of others could find no one else had really done this. There was one person who had flipped the whole standard setup over 180degrees on a LHD shell, meaning the servo was on the RH side, but that was only done to fit an M5 V10 engine. Far from ideal as this new shell was to be RHD and I didn't want the 'link bar' behind the dashboard loosing feel in the pedal.
Basically with the linkage mechanism removed and the pedal box mounted to the car, this is what you are left with. The top circle is where I need the clevis for the pedal to connect to, the second lower circle is a reference to the engine bay side in the lower picture.
Ideally I needed it to be slightly higher to match the height of the pedal connection. On the second image you can see an X penciled onto the bulkhead, this about as high as it can go before having issues with the servo rod hitting the top of the pedal box.
The next major problem was the overall diameter of the servo. I wanted to retain the Clio (182) servo as its a dual diaphram and one of the smallest diameter/slimmest cobminations readily available to get from breakers. The E30 ones are larger, and I even looked at using an S14 one which is a tad bigger than a Clio one also. So I set about working from the dimensions of that.
Obviously the mounting point would have to be moved inward slightly to clear the inner arch, but when I set about measuring that up I hit problem number 2 - I could only gain around 10mm due to the clutch master cylinder being mounted on the pedal box inside also. If I wanted to go further than 10mm over, I would have to re-fab the whole pedalbox and move the clutch MC over too. This in turn would cause more issues as I would not be able to use the standard throttle linkage either!
10mm seemed like it would be enough thankfully after measuring a couple of times, so I marked the bulkhead up first. Obviously the servo has a large round piece of pedal sticking out of the back, so the bulkhead would have to be chopped (along with the pedal box) and then plated back up.
Before marking up and cutting the pedal box I decided to check what the maximum length of servo and master cylinder combination would fit before it would be touching the suspension turret. Near enough bang on 220mm dependant on diameter of master cylinder. The Clio servo and master cylinder combo came in at 200mm so I could carry on..
The chosen point on the pedalbox was marked and drilled..
You can see the position of it in relation to the reference hole mentioned in the first few pictures, quite a bit higher and 10mm further over. Next came the holesaw and grinder..
Leaving me with a channel for the back of the servo to sit in..
I then marked up the two bottom servo mounting holes on the pedalbox and drilled them. Slotted the servo into position and used the grinder to get the perfect amount of room inside the pedalbox..
The clevis comes through in the correct position and the red line indicates where the pedal pin usually goes. The clevis on this (spare) Clio master cylinder has been chopped down from when it was on a Mk1 clio, normally its a lot longer and will meet up with the pedal mount even in its highest positon.
Even better (and thanks to the careful measurements) the clutch master cylinder fits perfectly in its stock position with no modification
So now the pedal box would accept the servo, I needed to cut the bulkhead so it would fit through also. From the markings made earlier I double checked the measurements and cut it out...
Then bolted the pedalbox to position inside the car and slotted the servo into position for a trial fit..
It would not 100% sit flush at first, so I took the best tool in the box (hammer) to the inner arch to give it a bit more room. After giving a select few areas a bit of modification it slotted in perfectly. As you may have noticed with the cuts this means there is going to be a hole in the top of the bulkhead where the servo passes through..
Not to mention nowhere for the top two servo mounts to bolt to. With the servo being sat slightly proud of flat, I used some 2mm plate bent to 90degrees for a start. Then to give me a bit of a 'hump' so it would clear the servo I used a piece of 45mm roll cage tubing and a hammer to shape the piece of metal. Once I was happy with the position, I marked and drilled the two mounting holes.
After loosley bolting everything into place again I tacked the plate into place and welded it all the way round. Then removed the pedal box and welded the underside also..
Obviously there was going to still be a great gaping hole in the bulkhead that was originally there. So cut a bit of 2mm plate to shape and welded that in too, didnt turn out too bad considering the bulkhead is like a coke can in thickness.
Now everything was welded I covered the lot in seam sealer to protect it. I tidied up the cuts on the pedal box and painted that also. Then put the pedal box back into place and bolted the servo up for one last trial fit..
Versus the old setup on the other side..
As the servo comes through to the inside everything lines up as previously seen..
I just need to swap out the spare Clio servo for a standard one with a full length clevis which will line up perfectly. Im quite happy with how everything fits and its another part of the conversion worked out as it proves its possible to move it to that side.
Previously I used the Clio 182 cylinder which has a 22.2mm bore, but I had issues at Oulton with a really long pedal. After some calculations and help over on E30Zone it turns out it simply just does not shift enough fluid for the brake setup I have - 4pot fronts and soon to be E30 Touring rear calipers. I could do a direct upgrade to an E30 M3 master cylinder onto the Clio servo which has a 25mm bore, but I could still go larger again as the Clio servo gives plenty of assistance.
A few more days of research came to the conclusion I can fit (with a slight bit of modification) a Nissan R33 GTR (or Nissan 300ZX) master cylinder, which has a 27mm bore and two outlets on the engine side - perfect. The rod inside the Clio servo will need to be wound out slightly, and the mounting holes on the master cylinder moved inwards slightly, but all the other dimensions check out to be perfect and it should fit into the space available! Il update more on that once I have one ready to fit.
So there you have it, servo moved to the right hand side on an E30. More soon!
Hopefully get round to doing the shell in the next week or so once I know all the welding/modifications have been done. I had already cut out the standard servo mount on the N/S (same place on all E30s) and welded it up. Also plated up any other holes that are not needed in the bulkhead. The main reason everything was being blanked is I was going to swap the standard servo/master cylinder setup for an aftermarket pedal box - allowing me to choose separate master cylinders for front and rear.
Although the lead time on the type I wanted was 2 weeks+, and Marham was 3 weeks away, so not enough time for any errors. So I ended up forgetting that idea and making a one-off setup as below. Since then Marham has been postponed so in hindsight I could have actually gone with the pedal box, but I've made it work now so there's no need for it as of yet.
As I have previously mentioned the Servo/MC on an E30 is usually on the N/S (regardless of it being RHD or LHD), so it was always going to be an issue with the SR20DET having the exhaust/turbo on that side also. Last time I moved the whole servo/MC setup over by ~40mm to get the required clearance, but it was never an ideal solution.
I decided on this shell I wanted to move the whole setup to the other side, with it being RHD, it would be directly behind the pedalbox like on a Clio for example. The problem was as far as myself and a couple of others could find no one else had really done this. There was one person who had flipped the whole standard setup over 180degrees on a LHD shell, meaning the servo was on the RH side, but that was only done to fit an M5 V10 engine. Far from ideal as this new shell was to be RHD and I didn't want the 'link bar' behind the dashboard loosing feel in the pedal.
Basically with the linkage mechanism removed and the pedal box mounted to the car, this is what you are left with. The top circle is where I need the clevis for the pedal to connect to, the second lower circle is a reference to the engine bay side in the lower picture.
Ideally I needed it to be slightly higher to match the height of the pedal connection. On the second image you can see an X penciled onto the bulkhead, this about as high as it can go before having issues with the servo rod hitting the top of the pedal box.
The next major problem was the overall diameter of the servo. I wanted to retain the Clio (182) servo as its a dual diaphram and one of the smallest diameter/slimmest cobminations readily available to get from breakers. The E30 ones are larger, and I even looked at using an S14 one which is a tad bigger than a Clio one also. So I set about working from the dimensions of that.
Obviously the mounting point would have to be moved inward slightly to clear the inner arch, but when I set about measuring that up I hit problem number 2 - I could only gain around 10mm due to the clutch master cylinder being mounted on the pedal box inside also. If I wanted to go further than 10mm over, I would have to re-fab the whole pedalbox and move the clutch MC over too. This in turn would cause more issues as I would not be able to use the standard throttle linkage either!
10mm seemed like it would be enough thankfully after measuring a couple of times, so I marked the bulkhead up first. Obviously the servo has a large round piece of pedal sticking out of the back, so the bulkhead would have to be chopped (along with the pedal box) and then plated back up.
Before marking up and cutting the pedal box I decided to check what the maximum length of servo and master cylinder combination would fit before it would be touching the suspension turret. Near enough bang on 220mm dependant on diameter of master cylinder. The Clio servo and master cylinder combo came in at 200mm so I could carry on..
The chosen point on the pedalbox was marked and drilled..
You can see the position of it in relation to the reference hole mentioned in the first few pictures, quite a bit higher and 10mm further over. Next came the holesaw and grinder..
Leaving me with a channel for the back of the servo to sit in..
I then marked up the two bottom servo mounting holes on the pedalbox and drilled them. Slotted the servo into position and used the grinder to get the perfect amount of room inside the pedalbox..
The clevis comes through in the correct position and the red line indicates where the pedal pin usually goes. The clevis on this (spare) Clio master cylinder has been chopped down from when it was on a Mk1 clio, normally its a lot longer and will meet up with the pedal mount even in its highest positon.
Even better (and thanks to the careful measurements) the clutch master cylinder fits perfectly in its stock position with no modification
So now the pedal box would accept the servo, I needed to cut the bulkhead so it would fit through also. From the markings made earlier I double checked the measurements and cut it out...
Then bolted the pedalbox to position inside the car and slotted the servo into position for a trial fit..
It would not 100% sit flush at first, so I took the best tool in the box (hammer) to the inner arch to give it a bit more room. After giving a select few areas a bit of modification it slotted in perfectly. As you may have noticed with the cuts this means there is going to be a hole in the top of the bulkhead where the servo passes through..
Not to mention nowhere for the top two servo mounts to bolt to. With the servo being sat slightly proud of flat, I used some 2mm plate bent to 90degrees for a start. Then to give me a bit of a 'hump' so it would clear the servo I used a piece of 45mm roll cage tubing and a hammer to shape the piece of metal. Once I was happy with the position, I marked and drilled the two mounting holes.
After loosley bolting everything into place again I tacked the plate into place and welded it all the way round. Then removed the pedal box and welded the underside also..
Obviously there was going to still be a great gaping hole in the bulkhead that was originally there. So cut a bit of 2mm plate to shape and welded that in too, didnt turn out too bad considering the bulkhead is like a coke can in thickness.
Now everything was welded I covered the lot in seam sealer to protect it. I tidied up the cuts on the pedal box and painted that also. Then put the pedal box back into place and bolted the servo up for one last trial fit..
Versus the old setup on the other side..
As the servo comes through to the inside everything lines up as previously seen..
I just need to swap out the spare Clio servo for a standard one with a full length clevis which will line up perfectly. Im quite happy with how everything fits and its another part of the conversion worked out as it proves its possible to move it to that side.
Previously I used the Clio 182 cylinder which has a 22.2mm bore, but I had issues at Oulton with a really long pedal. After some calculations and help over on E30Zone it turns out it simply just does not shift enough fluid for the brake setup I have - 4pot fronts and soon to be E30 Touring rear calipers. I could do a direct upgrade to an E30 M3 master cylinder onto the Clio servo which has a 25mm bore, but I could still go larger again as the Clio servo gives plenty of assistance.
A few more days of research came to the conclusion I can fit (with a slight bit of modification) a Nissan R33 GTR (or Nissan 300ZX) master cylinder, which has a 27mm bore and two outlets on the engine side - perfect. The rod inside the Clio servo will need to be wound out slightly, and the mounting holes on the master cylinder moved inwards slightly, but all the other dimensions check out to be perfect and it should fit into the space available! Il update more on that once I have one ready to fit.
So there you have it, servo moved to the right hand side on an E30. More soon!
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Brilliant read, about the brake servo/MC. That's some awesome problem solving & fabricating skills you've got there!
Looking forward to more updates.
Looking forward to more updates.
Brake servo setup is very good work. I have wondered if a similair setup can be done for ages, im not a huge fan of the transfer bar setup.
Just a note, check the properties on the primer you have used, most primer is porous and if it gets wet will suffer, compromising anything you paint over the top with.
Just a note, check the properties on the primer you have used, most primer is porous and if it gets wet will suffer, compromising anything you paint over the top with.
Yeah, its just standard celly filler primer - I guessed as much when I started. Im not overly bothered as alot of it will have to come of if/when I put a cage in it, so I've no real issue with having to do it again to get it right. It was just a cheap 'for now' covering to get everything the same color, rather than black, red, white and blue!
Lol. Not touched it in a few weeks, been busy doing other cars for people (Clios god damnit!) and buying gypsey things..
Got a busy couple of weeks to come so will get on with it after those!
172 Race Car
Jord, are you interested in another car for spares? My neighbour has one on his drive that was there when i moved in (8 years ago) hes finally decided to get rid of it. Not sure if he wants anything for it. Its got a body kit but its very very rotten. some panels may be of use
Only just seen this.... If I had more room (and time for the car!) I may have considered it, but I've still yet to get rid of the smashed up shell and do any further work on the red one. No room and no time = project on hold!
Unfortunately I'm breaking this for parts, Its been fun but I simply haven't had the time to touch it since I fitted the suspension to the red shell a few months back, other things taking priority at the moment than building a car and having to work on it/repair it all the time.
I'm buying another (Mpower) toy to just use (and tweak where necessary) but can't justify keeping this going at the moment. Lots of the big bits are sold already, but if anyones interested in E30 or S14/S15 performance parts get in touch.
:race:
I'm buying another (Mpower) toy to just use (and tweak where necessary) but can't justify keeping this going at the moment. Lots of the big bits are sold already, but if anyones interested in E30 or S14/S15 performance parts get in touch.
:race:
I'm still reeling from this, despite knowing a while now!
One of the deciding factors was how far the unit is away from where I live, and its not something I can keep doing after work in the evenings, just dont get enough time to do anything once I've got up there etc. Weekends I can never be bothered, it would be a good few months before I would even use it again etc.
Can get a decent wedge back for the whole lot at the moment (despite having two pretty useless shells!), and somewhere 10 minutes from home to store trailer+car. Still going to buy something to leave on a trailer and just use as and when, considered lots (S14/RX7/Mx5/5series/Evo5) but its more than likely going to be an M3.
Can get a decent wedge back for the whole lot at the moment (despite having two pretty useless shells!), and somewhere 10 minutes from home to store trailer+car. Still going to buy something to leave on a trailer and just use as and when, considered lots (S14/RX7/Mx5/5series/Evo5) but its more than likely going to be an M3.
S14 wouldn't have been a bad shout, most aren't far off the rot fate mine had though. Sod an RX7, only an idiotic dick would buy one.
Absolutely gutted I never got to see this - it was an amazing build
Nafoff
ClioSport Club Member
great shame you are breaking it, but fully understand the reasons, they are the exact same reasons that had me reconsidering,
perhaps i am an idiot for trying to proceed rather than cashing in....
perhaps i am an idiot for trying to proceed rather than cashing in....
welshname
ClioSport Club Member
Pretty sure afaik that virtually everything has been sold awaiting collection tbh pal.
Nafoff
ClioSport Club Member
PM bomber on here, he also expressed interest in taking the lot off you
Sad to see end this way. Guess its called growing up, situations and priorities comstantly changing. Been a good read though.
Have you thought about selling up everything, and just getting one car that does it all, daily and the odd trackday? Half decent e46 m3 with ap's and a set of coil overs......
And what's with the gypsy wagon??
Have you thought about selling up everything, and just getting one car that does it all, daily and the odd trackday? Half decent e46 m3 with ap's and a set of coil overs......
And what's with the gypsy wagon??
