Brake clearance between standard brakes and an Oz F1 alloy?

[Chip-mk1]

Not near my car at the moment so cant measure, just wondered if anyone has figures for:

Distance between the caliper and the nearest point on the inside of the wheel (ie how many mm it could be spaced before it hit)
Distance between the disk and the nearest point on the inside of the wheel (ie how many mm there is in terms of space for bigger disk and some caliper clearance)

Not urgent or anything, can look at the weekend when im home, just thought someone might already have the details written down somewhere.

 

[Space Cadet]

Hi Chip, not that this helps much, but I had probably 10mm gap between my old Willwood callipers running 295mm discs and the F1's than I do now with my Alcons running 290mm discs, we're literally talking 1 mm between the weights and the calliper.

 

[Chip-mk1]

If I could get a 300mm disk in there it would be a good improvement, so that sounds promising.

My car is finally outdoing its brakes now!

 

[Kelv]

I found that on Saturday aswell Chip.
I've actually started to get brake fade with the wilwoods so I've started looking at the Alcon setups.

going to try a different fluid and pad grade first and see how I get on.
the brake setup has done many laps at the ring and no sign of any fade, until Saturday


Chip, I did over hear you mention you may try and find a set of Brembo calipers as a possible upgrade on Saturday.

 

[Space Cadet]

I think it would have to be a smaller/thinner calliper such as the Willwood to run a 300mm disc. The benefits of the Alcons over the Willwoods more than makes up for the 10mm smaller necessary disc difference though, plus there is a wider selection of pads available.

Hey Kelv - will show you my Alcons when I see you.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Kelv, yeah ive got a set of fiat brembo 4 pot calipers knocking around somewhere (same as focus rs) I was going to use them on my nova before I happened across some 6 pot tarox to use instead.

Might even pinch the tarox from the nova and make up some brackets to use them for a bit while im looking for other options as the nova isnt going anywhere anytime soon realistically.


SpaceCadet, I must say im not a big willwood fan although I did make some fit my corsa and they were "ok", would sooner use a decent quality caliper if possible though.

 

[Dan@SJM]

You wouldn't get a 300 disc in in oem calipers mate

 

[Chip-mk1]

You wouldn't get a 300 disc in in oem calipers mate

I know that mate, and woudlnt bother making brakets just to fit a single piston.

Just want all the dimensions so I can work out what I can get in there.

 

[Kelv]

I'm the same, in an ideal world I'd have a set of AP's under there, but the wilwoods was a small step at the time, and they have done well for near on 2 years, maybe with the car developing and I gain more confidence I'm just finding the brakes need to be giving that little bit more.

Chip, i know the calipers well.
i may even have a set of the FRS calipers buried in the unit somewhere from fitting the AP 6 pots on to the first FRS.
They could be an ideal upgrade for you if you can get them to fit.

Mark, cheers buddy, I had a little peeky when I last saw you, and I recall you saying how good they were over the wilwoods you had previously.

 

[Chip-mk1]

You shouldnt have a problem in your car Kelv, its not fast enough TBH, you sure you havent got a handling problem thats making you slow too much?

Les was over heating her brakes early in the day as she was slowing down too much but once she got a bit quicker in the bends they were ok.

 

[Budgie]

Chip/ clear your PM's....

 

[Dan@SJM]

You used to get a wilwood kit with 295's iirc I think that was the largest possib.

 

[Chip-mk1]

done budgie.

 

[Kelv]

I wouldn't have said I have a handling issue chip, other than a little understeer on a few tight bends.
to give an idea of my lack of braking, I was carrying as an average between 90 - 100mph through the chicane down the back straight at Bedford.

if behind another clio for a few twisties I foud I didn't want to go near the brake pedal for a good couple of hundred yards after they were wanting to brake.

 

[bozothenutter]

i run 300mm discs in 16" alleggeritta's with R26 brembo's
the caliper is soo close to the wheel I cannot put wheelweights behind the spokes (bout 5mm?)
My wheels are ET 37, and did not clear the calipers...to make sure I got some 10mm spacers, but I am looking into reducing that (to stop rubbing)
this setup with a Clio 197/200 brake cylinder would suitt you nicely sir

 

[Chip-mk1]

Oz F1 are the wheels I will be running, so thanks for the input but its no use to me to have to run a 16" wheel or even a different style of 15".

I will work within the confines of the space I have with these wheels.

 

[bozothenutter]

no worries mate, didn't know what size of wheels you were running....

 

[Space Cadet]

Oh good point, I forgot to add that I'm running 25mm spacers on the front..... I doubt they'd fit without spacers. Also the weights need to be right on the outside edge of the flat ridge just behind the spokes otherwise they catch the calliper.

 

[Chip-mk1]

I'll want some spacers anyway just to push the wheels out a bit, and not worried about wheel weights as on my corsa I only had about 50 thou clearance when I made the wilwoods fit it, so Im used to that.

Anyway I will probably move the disks in a bit, there is a fair bit of room, thats what I did on my mk1 clio when I fitted pug disks and calipers to it.

 

[Space Cadet]

If it helps - On my PH1 I'm running 25mm front and 20mm rear with -3.5 camber front and -2 rear I think and it seems to work fine with no rubbing.

 

[Chip-mk1]

My rears seem to have very little clearance, although ive not added camber shims yet, but its the front I want to spacer anyway.

 

[Tony Hunter]

Kelv,
would look at changing pads and fluid first. No way should you be having brake trouble, esp on the GP circuit at bedford, so many long straights to cool them down.

Or you are doing it wrong.

 

[Kelv]

Tony, I think that's the first port of call.
logical steps to take, if the problem persists I shall address that then.

cheers buddy

 

[Space Cadet]

Just to add my 2p. Obviously excluding Tony and like who know what they're talking about, some people (inc. myself, at least in the past) get caught up on brake cooling when in fact it may be that the pads are not getting hot enough. I've replaced my fog light surrounds (no arch liners etc) with some covers and the Alcons now get up to temp quicker and don’t cool as quick and are sh1t-hot compared to when they were being over-cooled and I still don’t get any fade. I haven't yet run them when the air temp is really hot but if they're getting too hot I can just pop the fog covers out.

 

[Space Cadet]

My rears seem to have very little clearance, although ive not added camber shims yet, but its the front I want to spacer anyway.

The camber, on mine at least, adds a surprising amount of clearance. I doubt running standard camber I'd be able to use 25mm spacers.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Just to add my 2p. Obviously excluding Tony and like who know what they're talking about, some people (inc. myself, at least in the past) get caught up on brake cooling when in fact it may be that the pads are not getting hot enough. I've replaced my fog light surrounds (no arch liners etc) with some covers and the Alcons now get up to temp quicker and don’t cool as quick and are sh1t-hot compared to when they were being over-cooled and I still don’t get any fade. I haven't yet run them when the air temp is really hot but if they're getting too hot I can just pop the fog covers out.

Mine only faded after being properly hammered, at which point they had got so hot they warped the disks too, its not a case of not being hot enough, dont forget my car isnt laggy like yours so gives the brakes a harder time on track.

 

[Space Cadet]

Sorry Chip I wasn't aiming this specifically at you or anyone. Like I say, it was just my 2p, pads need to get up to temp and lots on here fit higher temp pads which don’t then get up to their operating temp and therefore feel like they're not performing. Its just an observation on my OTT Alcons and properly vented rotors.

BTW - Laggy?

 

[Chip-mk1]

BTW - Laggy?

Lag = the time delay between opening the throttle and getting to 100lbft per litre.

 

[Space Cadet]

I'm running ITB's so not laggy at all, but am still at 90lbft per litre!!

 

[Chip-mk1]

I'm running ITB's so not laggy at all, but am still at 90lbft per litre!!

The lag stops when the torque starts mate, yours just lags all the way upto the rev limiter though by the sounds of it if its only making 90lbft per litre.

So brakes that are fine for you might not be for me.

 

[Space Cadet]

Noted and agreed.​