Brakes seem a bit weak

[Clouder]

Hi guys, had my 182 for a few weeks, and I've noticed that the brakes are, well, rubbish.

It has drilled disks and red-stuff pads up front, standard rears. Under heavy braking my foot reaches the floor if I push hard enough, and the car does slow down, but not overly well I cannot get the ABS to kick in, I think it should be much better.

Now, aside from the fact I know redstuff aren't great, I have used them on my old S14a and that STOPPED, so I cant be blaming them, it feels like air in the fluid possibly?

Am I expecting too much from the standard brakes?? I thought they were meant to be very good. Aside from a bleed, is there anything else that often crops up to cause bad braking on these?

Thanks in advance

 

[theduck]

Presume you have checked discs and pads are ok? If so I would change fluid first.

 

[Clouder]

Yea disks and pads aren't that old

 

[theduck]

What discs are they actually? Decent brand?

 

[MarkCup]

Fluid...change it and give it a fresh bleed.

Regardless of what pads/discs you are running, there is no way you should be able to push the pedal to the floor. In other words none of the pressure from your leg into the pedal is actually reaching the pads/discs as the poor fluid is stopping it.

Sort that out first before thinking about if the pads/discs are good enough.

Edit: and yes, they should be much better than a standard crap-ish car. Get them working well, and you'll be headbutting the windscreen every time you look at the middle pedal.

 

[Clouder]

Don't know what make, but they are £153 on the receipt I have (unfitted!) so I can assume they are Brembo or similar

Maybe a silly question - but can someone please confirm that the brakes should be 'very good'. Ie, it should stop better than say a typically crap car, and that if you nail the brake it should activate the ABS? Just so I know i'm not trying to fix the wrong problem!

 

[Clouder]

Fluid...change it and give it a fresh bleed.

Regardless of what pads/discs you are running, there is no way you should be able to push the pedal to the floor. In other words none of the pressure from your leg into the pedal is actually reaching the pads/discs as the poor fluid is stopping it.

Sort that out first before thinking about if the pads/discs are good enough.

Edit: and yes, they should be much better than a standard crap-ish car. Get them working well, and you'll be headbutting the windscreen every time you look at the middle pedal.

That's what I thought, thanks hate to admit that I nearly binned it yesterday when I needed them proper scary, was VERY shocked.

Will put fresh lot in and bleed it through. I assume it's similar to other cars, work from furtherst corner away from the BMC, to the nearest?

 

[MarkCup]

Ooh, best get it sorted ASAP then!

No idea on technique, never done it myself. Have a search on here and you should find something.

 

[TheEvilGiraffe]

Sounds like naff fluid. Old / wet .. not sure.

When you're flushing/bleeding it, dont drain the master cylinder !!!!!!!!!

If you're not confident... take it to a specialist. Where are you based chap ?

 

[Clouder]

Is that because it can damage the ABS system? I thought it would be ok to drain the lot and start again? any tips appreciated, as I know each car is different. I've done fluid changes on my old S14a before, that went ok I'm pretty sure it's just naff fluid, the car sat for nearly 6 months, only did 200 miles over winter

But I can't drive it with any amount of foot until it's sorted, that's for sure!

 

[TheEvilGiraffe]

No, you'll end up with air locks and you'll spend a weekend swearing, cursing, crying, hitting, laughing, then crying again trying to get the b*****d out.

:evil:

 

[Clouder]

Ah ok, that make sense. The way I've done it before is to begin to drain out from furthest wheel, then when it gets low, start to put new stuff in. When it appears at caliper, stop. Then do other 3 wheels until fresh stuff appears at those calipers It's a pain in the ass job as it's 2-man, 4-axle stand affair really

 

[jack_kemp]

My left testicle says it's air/water in the system / shitty old fluid.

As others said, bleed the fluid, replace it with good stuff. I'd also put on braided hoses at the same time, just because it saves you effort if you chose to do it later.

 

[sideways danny]

Hello stranger

Deacon told me you'd bought this the other day. going by the economy you mentioned elsewhere, your lambda is shot.

I'd say it's a good bet that the pads are well seized up in the calipers. Very common, not many people prep the pads before chucking them in

 

[Martin_172]

ive been in an S14 with red stuff pads and a clio 182 on standard setup should out brake it no problem to put your mind at ease, they are broken not crap from factory

 

[Soot1e]

You might just as well overhaul the whole braking system while your at it, new fluid pads & discs. Change the fluid as Clouder describes. It will be a day well spent.

 

[Munson]

DO NOT DRAIN THE FLUID. DO NOT ALLOW THE RESERVOIR TO GET SO LOW THAT IT SUCKS AIR IN.

I accidentally did this, and I had a f**king nightmare bleeding the air out, and used a LOT of brake fluid in the process.

 

[Clouder]

Cheers chaps new fluid going in over the weekend sometime, will hopefully sort it out.

Sideways Danny, didn't realise you had a 172!? are there any other fellow sxoc members over this way?

 

[Rob]

Danny doesn't have a 172, he's a MK1 kinda guy

Welcome to the club btw, also, there's a guide on here iirc, telling you how to bleed the brakes

 

[Clouder]

Excellent, thanks, I'll have a search for it

 

[sideways danny]

Cheers chaps new fluid going in over the weekend sometime, will hopefully sort it out.

Sideways Danny, didn't realise you had a 172!? are there any other fellow sxoc members over this way?

a few. Malice is probably the only one you might recognise

as Rob said, no 172 for me, strictly n utterly bastardised

 

[Clouder]

Well, it was an 'interesting' day, I will save all the details as it's been a right pain, but I think I'm there.

However, brakes now seem much better (although haven't tried in the dry yet..) but I can hear air when I press the brake pedal? Not noticeable with a little bit of music/chat, but can hear it if you try to hear it. Can someone with a 182 confirm to me whether this is correct or not? You will need to actually go check, as it's not something you'd normally notice I don't think, unless you were looking for such a noise. My bro's 1.2 does it a bit too... and my old S14a did it a bit as well. But does seem a little louder than maybe it should be.

If it's not normal, then I'll need to sort it out tomorrow

 

[Clouder]

Right guys, the brake 'issue' is still bothering me. I'm now wondering if i'm expecting a bit too much from them maybe.

I'm running slightly larger grooved disks and red-stuff pads. The car stops 'ok', it's pretty good, but it doesn't stop as well as my old S14a, which had 345mm rotors and Ferodo DS2500 pads. I assumed the clio, weighing 200kg less, would stop as well, but it just doesn't. The only way to describe it is, from speed, it just takes longer to stop than I was expecting, that's it. No noises, fade, etc, the setup is VERY new etc, and 95% of people would be happy I expect, but I'm not. Because, on certain roads, the clio can be as quick as my old 300hp beastie... and so that's a concern for me.

Now, we all see out cars with tinted shades and everyone will tell me how it should stop on a six-pence, etc, however, I guess I'm after someone who can make a fair comparison to car that can REALLY stop, and let know how it should compare and whether I need to go buy some DS2500's (or some 4 pot calipers ).. cheers chaps

 

[sideways danny]

I'm running slightly larger grooved disks and red-stuff pads.

!!!!!!!! grooved disks....giving less surface area. Red stuff......AARRRRGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHh

 

[jack_kemp]

As danny says, redstuff pads are said to be shitty (although I've never used them).

Where do you live? Maybe se if someonewill take you for a drive so you can compare the two. What tyres are you using? They have more to do with the braking distances than anything else....

 

[Clouder]

Whilst I'm not a fan of either grooved disks or red stuff pads (both onc ar when I bought them) I don't believe the grooves make that much difference. I can see the Red Stuff possibly making a difference though...

Yea would be good to see if I could pop out with someone with an uprated setup so I can compare I'm in Cornwall