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Building a Server?



KDF

KDF

  Audi TT Stronic
You don't use RAID for backup, you use it for redundancy.

Cloud storage has a long way to go, it might work for you but if there is a 'disaster' I would rather not wait X amount of time to try and retrieve my company data. With swappable drives you have the data to hand immediately.
 
Chapster5

Chapster5

KDF said:
You don't use RAID for backup, you use it for redundancy.

Cloud storage has a long way to go, it might work for you but if there is a 'disaster' I would rather not wait X amount of time to try and retrieve my company data. With swappable drives you have the data to hand immediately.
Click to expand...

Ive been reading more and more on RAID and the more I read the more I like. So using RAID 10 (1 + 0) would work best? Or all personal opinion?

Nick
 
Chapster5

Chapster5

It's RAID in general I like just people have suggested so many different RAIDS and 10 popped up a couple of time I looked more at it. Turns out the booklet on my current motherboard in this computer has an explaination of RAID it explains 0, 1, 5 and 10.

Nick
 
KDF

KDF

  Audi TT Stronic
RAID 10 is great. Speed, performance and redundancy.

But you have a 50% loss of capacity... so I only use it to store things like SQL databases.
 
@

@Spoonie

The main advantage of RAID 10 is its read/write performance. From what you have told us about your friends business hes not going to need it. Waste of money.
 
KDF

KDF

  Audi TT Stronic
But what about RAID'd SSD's ? now that is the future :D

Was actually considering a RAID 10 SSD array for a SQL server but after performance monitoring the bottlenecks were the clients systems not the server. Besides, my SQL server pretty much holds it's entire database in RAM.
 
I

iain187

  DCi
I think we use raid 5 off the top of my head.


I remember when a disk failed, when I came in to work I actually discovered that 2 disks had failed but the server neglected to let us know about the 1st failure in anyway shape or form so we actually had 2 disks down... On our exchange server... On the first day of my bosses holiday. That was a long shift :D
 
Chapster5

Chapster5

Im cant get my head around how RAID 5 works with its 'Parity' Blocks? Take this diagram for example...

675px-RAID_5.svg.png

Say Disk 1 went down, you loose part of A, B, D and C's Parity Block... How would fitting a new drive rebuild A, B, C and D when C's Parity block has died? What is the Parity block?

Nick
 
KDF

KDF

  Audi TT Stronic
In laymens terms !

If disk 1 went down, you would loose

A2
B2
Cp
D1

We have parity data for A on 3, B on 2 and D on 0.

We don't need the parity data on the failed disk because non of the C data is missing and a new parity table can be rebuilt from the existing data on the remaining disks.

If you don't understand this then may I suggest that the 3 week time window you gave yourself to learn everything a pro knows may not be long enough ?? :rasp:
 
Chapster5

Chapster5

KDF said:
In laymens terms !

If disk 1 went down, you would loose

A2
B2
Cp
D1

We have parity data for A on 3, B on 2 and D on 0.

We don't need the parity data on the failed disk because non of the C data is missing and a new parity table can be rebuilt from the existing data on the remaining disks.

If you don't understand this then may I suggest that the 3 week time window you gave yourself to learn everything a pro knows may not be long enough ?? :rasp:
Click to expand...

I got it now!

Maybe RAID 5 is the better and cheaper option, since you only need a minimum of 3 drives.

Nick
 
KDF

KDF

  Audi TT Stronic
:banghead:

lol

But raid 1 is 2 drives and will give you the same protection level.. better in fact as you don't need to deal with parity.

Only if you cannot achieve the capacity you are looking for should you go to RAID 5/6.
 
Cookie

Cookie

ClioSport Club Member
KDF said:
:banghead:

lol

But raid 1 is 2 drives and will give you the same protection level.. better in fact as you don't need to deal with parity.

Only if you cannot achieve the capacity you are looking for should you go to RAID 5/6.
Click to expand...

Or buy bigger disks and stop being a skinflint :p
 
sbridgey

sbridgey

ClioSport Club Member
  disco 4, 182, Meglio
I use RAID 1 in my home machine(2x1TB), it works well and i would 100% use it in a server combined with carbonite for backup purposes. Would probably go for 2x2TB's though now.

Raid 5 is technically better value but you require 3 disks and in this case it is pointless.

RAID 1 + online backup solution is what i would probably do.
 
Chapster5

Chapster5

Soo many choices I love it :D Like a kid in a sweet shop lol!

Im starting to like all this server malarky, where as when i first started this thread the way it was looking no one really wanted to help.

Thanks for being patient with me guys I am very annoying and stubborn I know sometimes it helps in life other times its a burden... This could go either way

Nick
 
Chapster5

Chapster5

Ok so...

One of those HP Mini servers, for it's size its looking quite good and simple for whats needed, setup as a file and printer sharing with RAID 1 in place... 2 x 1TB HDD's
A HP V1810-8G Server Switch (8 Port - Gigabit Switch) All that is needed in this current case. (see below link)

http://www.google.co.uk/products/catalog?q=HP+V1810-8G&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=11071017368797384845&sa=X&ei=a_srT4_BNcuu8QOX-6HzDg&ved=0CGYQ8wIwAw

2 Client computers which I will build as and when needed,

and for the printer my friend wants a DOT Matrix one which is obviously shareable throughout the network for printing Invoices.

Have I missed anything?

Nick
 
Chapster5

Chapster5

He says its because hes used them for most of his working career at different places lol So you can just buy a box of printed letter headed invoice paper and let it run through as and when.

He said he knows how to set them up... Personally never touched them InkJet guy myself :)

Nick
 
Cookie

Cookie

ClioSport Club Member
Chapster5 said:
He says its because hes used them for most of his working career at different places lol So you can just buy a box of printed letter headed invoice paper and let it run through as and when.

He said he knows how to set them up... Personally never touched them InkJet guy myself :)

Nick
Click to expand...

Factor in a cheap laser printer to your costs
 
Chapster5

Chapster5

Ill get looking at some laser printers, Again something ive never dabbled with should be fun to learn. I had the IT guy at a solicitors I worked for show me how to fit a service kit to those big free standing HP Laser printers, those things where HOT lol.

Thanks sbridgey I thought 24 might be a bit big for how it currently looks saying that im not going to argue with a pro. HP do a 24 port switch for marginally cheaper

http://www.google.co.uk/products/catalog?q=HP+1810-24G+Switch&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=17949796466456586923&sa=X&ei=3v4rT7rSOM-IhQeVmcmDCw&ved=0CH8Q8wIwAw

but then its a case of whats better with Cisco do you get more for your money and stuff?

Nick
 
sbridgey

sbridgey

ClioSport Club Member
  disco 4, 182, Meglio
I thought you were going to have 5 workstations and 1 server, that is 6 ports 2 for expandability on and 8 port switch, not a good idea imo. imagine you wanted to add 3 more workstations and a wireless access point, you would need to buy a new switch.

I would personally go with the cisco one but i have no knowledge of HP kit but i am sure KDF and Fatty can point out which is better.
 
Cookie

Cookie

ClioSport Club Member
Nothing wrong with hp switches, have used them before.

I'd go for new over used, as you've already mentioned cost isn't that much of an issue, and new stuff has warranty
 
T

The Fatty

  AB182, Audi A5 3.0
get a 12 or 24 port switch (unmanaged gigabit). Used RAID type 10 (I prefer 1+0, some people say a few RAID controllers work better with 0+1 but I am yet to see that). RAID for this purpose would be internal (inside the server). Use external USB HDD's for backup using a simple backup app like fBackup or the built in backup app. setup AD and map user folders to folders on the server.
 
@

@Spoonie

Chapster5 said:
He says its because hes used them for most of his working career at different places lol So you can just buy a box of printed letter headed invoice paper and let it run through as and when.
Click to expand...
Yeah, guess that is better than filling a paper tray with nice clean cut A4 and silent printing. Nothing can match the pleasure you get tearing the tractor holes off the paper, reprinting when you f**k it up and listening to the noise they make.
 
Chapster5

Chapster5

Cookie said:
Nothing wrong with hp switches, have used them before.

I'd go for new over used, as you've already mentioned cost isn't that much of an issue, and new stuff has warranty
Click to expand...

True point, Warranty is always good HP give a Lifetime Warranty on their products so that would come in handy just in case.

The Fatty said:
get a 12 or 24 port switch (unmanaged gigabit). Used RAID type 10 (I prefer 1+0, some people say a few RAID controllers work better with 0+1 but I am yet to see that). RAID for this purpose would be internal (inside the server). Use external USB HDD's for backup using a simple backup app like fBackup or the built in backup app. setup AD and map user folders to folders on the server.
Click to expand...

Cheers mate this now makes a lot of sense to me, where if you told me this back at the beginning I would be like huh? RAID 10 needs a minimum of 4 Drives though doesnt it, is that cost effective would you say for such a small network? As for the AD Thats a very good idea. At least then all their data and files get thrown into the backup process keeping them safe but they are also on the RAID setup.

Spoonie said:
Yeah, guess that is better than filling a paper tray with nice clean cut A4 and silent printing. Nothing can match the pleasure you get tearing the tractor holes off the paper, reprinting when you f**k it up and listening to the noise they make.
Click to expand...

LOL I will try and change his mind to a laser printer, see how well that goes but im sure with modern Dot Matrix technologies its a lot more silent? Than a machine that sounds like it has something inside trying to escape.

Nick
 
@

@Spoonie

The Fatty said:
get a 12 or 24 port switch (unmanaged gigabit). Used RAID type 10 (I prefer 1+0, some people say a few RAID controllers work better with 0+1 but I am yet to see that). RAID for this purpose would be internal (inside the server). Use external USB HDD's for backup using a simple backup app like fBackup or the built in backup app. setup AD and map user folders to folders on the server.
Click to expand...
RAID 10 is not required.
 
Silent_Scone

Silent_Scone

  Evo 5 RS
KDF said:
You don't use RAID for backup, you use it for redundancy.

Cloud storage has a long way to go, it might work for you but if there is a 'disaster' I would rather not wait X amount of time to try and retrieve my company data. With swappable drives you have the data to hand immediately.
Click to expand...

We've been experimenting with Cloud storage, the only real advantage at the moment even on fiber channel is space. 50 Petabytes anyone?
 
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