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cambelt problems (local garages)



  172 with k-tec sound
Following on from hundreds of threads about people taking their cars to local garages only to find they have done a botch job, i thought i would put up this sticky on the issue.

you must make sure the garage in question has all and i mean all the relevant locking tools to preform the job correctly otherwise you are just asking for trouble, there are plenty of specialists on here with more then competative prices who have years of experience in this matter.
99.9% of local garages will not have the tools, to correctly time the engine, resulting in threads like the one below, they may be cheap but you get what u pay for, your engine is the most important part of your car.

so why compromise when it comes to your pride and joy, better to get the job done right then at the right price.

eg: http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?t=510469

A bit of a summary on pulleys and belts:

The timing belt connects the engine crankshaft to the camshaft(s) which in turn control the precise opening and closing of the engine's valves.

A timeing belt is typically rubber with high tensile fibres and degrades with higher temperatures and contact with motor oil, water and antifreeze. As the belt ages, it stretches, and there is a risk of valve timing changin leading to vehicle breakdown and possible serious engine damage.

It is essential that the timing belt is replaced according to the replacement interval.

It is not only the timing belt that requires replacement but also the rollers and belt tensioner to ensure reliability and avoid any further problems.

Ancillary belts (i.e. alternator, Air con) which must be removed for access to the timing belt, should also be replaced. In some cases, it is necessary to replace the tensioner, the crankshaft pulley and bolt when replacing the ancillary belt.
 
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  ITB'd MK1
Good post. I'm rectifying one for a local garage next week as they realised they don't know the engine well enough, and don't have genuine locking tools
 
  ITB'd MK1
The correct, NECESSARY tools to do the job

46afbe7c.jpg


4797935e.jpg
 
  ITB'd MK1
depends on the engine. K4M/J (1.6 and 1.4 16v) require similar tools. 1.5 dci requires the correct pins to be used, and 1.2 16v isn't particularly a specialist job, although I've seen a LOT done incorrectly as no-one seems to know how to set a tensioner
 

sophiesdad

ClioSport Club Member
  anything i get
[/quote]1.2 16v isn't particularly a specialist job, although I've seen a LOT done incorrectly as no-one seems to know how to set a tensioner[/quote]

seen lots too , people seem to miss the give away arrow on the tensioner as to which way to tension it.
 
  Nimbus 197, Ph1 172
The one in the first pic Dan, does it just lock the two pulleys together, like the ones you get that slide into the cam pullies, or does it also lock the VVT? I've no problem doing it and have the tools, I just like to get an understanding for what i'm using.
 
  2005 Clio Sport 182
I completely agree. I'm getting my cambelt and aux belt replaced next month including tensioners and water pump.
It's £620 using genuine Renault parts but that's acceptable when compared to the cost of an engine rebuild!
I've heard that cambelts on these engines often go due to time, not necessarily due to the mileage. Anyone have any comments on this? Mine has done 64k and is nearly 5 years old.
 
On the original belt?! I suggest you get it changed ASAP fella. I recommend Fred at BTM. Allow for the dephaser to be changed as well.
 
  2005 Clio Sport 182
Yeah defo. Nationwide autocentres gave me a quote for £429.
Has anyone had any experience of using them for a cambelt job?
 
  ITB'd MK1
if they're not a renault specialist they will only have cheap locking tools that they think are correct, but they're actually junk
 
  2005 Clio Sport 182
Yeah I thought as much. Booked in for Thursday with Renatec (specialist) in Bristol now.
Not used them before so hopefully they'll do a job!
 
  2005 Clio Sport 182
All done. Just picked it up this morning. Apparently the aux tensioners fell apart in the lad's hands when he removed it! Oooops!
 
  clio 172 ph2
hello johnyo, im in the south wales division of the clio gang lol. im desprate for a cam belt change n what not. my engine mount just gone so im having it done localy but they want 520 for belt change! is this the norm? whats that renotec like? how much and r they reliable?

cheers bud christiano
 
  Lionel Richie
and baby jesus! Either us specialists are rip-off merchants or kwik-fit are talking out of their arse, i'll let you lot decide!!!
 

marcushookdale

ClioSport Club Member
  rstuned 182ff bg
IT'S GONNA BE KWIK FIT ,KWIKLY F@@KED

THEM LOT CAN ONLY CHANGE TYRES REALLY , NOT DO PROFESSONAL JOBS LIKE CAM BELTS+AUX BELTS ON 172/182.

THAT'S WOT ME THINKS ANYWAY,:cool:.
 
  Clio Sport 182
Is there anyways to have mine checked? I Think ive had a botched job done. The dealer i bought it from used a local garage ... Im having second thoughts.
 
  ITB'd MK1
Is there anyways to have mine checked? I Think ive had a botched job done. The dealer i bought it from used a local garage ... Im having second thoughts.

yes, it's checkable. Takes about an hour. If it needs recifying, then it's a load more work. Where are you near?
 

Martin_172

ClioSport Club Member
and baby jesus! Either us specialists are rip-off merchants or kwik-fit are talking out of their arse, i'll let you lot decide!!!

garage i was lending a hand to today were changing an engine, bill being footed by kwik fit because one of their monkeys done an oil change on a vectra, however, he drained the oil, stuck the sump plug back in, oil cap back on and took it out the workshop, not a drop in it, some how it managed it to the end of the street before the customer came walking back into the office asking why it cut out.
 
  Clio Sport 182
Does anyone know of a specialist in the north lincolnshire area, who will do an auxy belt change properly etc on a clio 182? It's had a cambelt last year when it had the head gasket replaced. cheers
 
  2002 Clio 172 Cup
recently had the whole belt and dephaser pully doen on my cup, due to having that rattle at idle and low revs, but car just doesnt seem like it goes same anymore, does anybody know how it should look when the cams are timed coz the cut ou notch on my dephaser is pointing round 4 oclock when cams and crank are locked. is that correct.
 
I can recomend using Stoney Cross Garage in Spondon (Derby) for cam & aux belt changing. They have the original tools and have done several cars now, albeit they do moan about access, or lack of access for working on.

Cheers Jamie
 

MicKPM

ClioSport Trader
  Clio16v/Zoe Z.E.50
I've done a few for some local CS members but as I've not paid my subs yet i'm not allowed to advertise my company (yet) however, I don't get why people moan about "lack of access" on the F4R or even the K4/K7M's cos there's plenty IMO (If they want a fun job they should try a timing belt service on the 3.0 24v L7X in an Espace/Laguna II cos even I despise that job).

These jobs deffo need to be done by people that know what they're on with as I to have had calls from local garages who still insist on having a crack at keyless Renault engines without the proper tools and still slap TipEx everywhere (Why, the lock set does it all for you properly so just buy one).

Mick
 

Darren S

ClioSport Club Member
I've done a few for some local CS members but as I've not paid my subs yet i'm not allowed to advertise my company (yet) however, I don't get why people moan about "lack of access" on the F4R or even the K4/K7M's cos there's plenty IMO (If they want a fun job they should try a timing belt service on the 3.0 24v L7X in an Espace/Laguna II cos even I despise that job).

These jobs deffo need to be done by people that know what they're on with as I to have had calls from local garages who still insist on having a crack at keyless Renault engines without the proper tools and still slap TipEx everywhere (Why, the lock set does it all for you properly so just buy one).

Mick

I take that those proper lock sets are VERY expensive?

D.
 

MicKPM

ClioSport Trader
  Clio16v/Zoe Z.E.50
Depends on how you define "Proper" D as Renault don't actually make them. The most common items found in workshops these days are usually built by AST but Laser, Franklin and Sealey offer cheaper units that people seem to **** off (though I can't see what's obviously wrong with them myself).

A cam position "Setting Bar" and crank "Lock" pin kit will set you back around £70-90. The Pulley imobilliser will cost anoter £90-120 (The F4R/F4P uses one type and there's a seperate tool for the K4/K7 16v engines). Another tool that isn't always used in favour of a decent jubilee clip is the Aux belt tensioner bar... tricky to use on the F4'd Clio II's due to a silly plate being in teh way but on the Laguna II and Megane II its so much easier to use.

If like me you work with these things everyday then they're worth there weight in gold but for the DIY mechanic they're outrageously priced for a one time job on the driveway.
 
  Lionel Richie
i hate the laser crap, the horseshoe is made of cheese, genuine renault ones are the best (and not that expensive anyway)

i use a snap on serp belt tool for the aux, so easy!
 
Whats more likely to fail, the cambelt or the tensioners? Reason I ask asmy service histroy states timing belt fitted, but no mention of tensioners.

On a K4M engine btw.
 

MicKPM

ClioSport Trader
  Clio16v/Zoe Z.E.50
@Fred: I agree but in the defence of mild steel positioning tool, the setting bar shouldn't be used for any purpose other than holding the cams in place (Which is why we use the imobilliser tools). Still, I've seen people attempt to release the cam pulley 18mm nuts with them before. It's always funny to watch their face when the tool bends and then snaps the cam locating boss before blaming Renault for the shite design [shakes head].

@Beef: On the K4M, if it wasn't done at the same time, the waterpump is the most likely thing to fail! If the car was done by someone decent they'd have known to change it as well as document it all for you. The tensioner, idler and belts are usually good for at least 50k but the waterpumps, depending on quality used, either sieze up and strip the belt on the drive side or the bearing race collapses and the pulley eventually spins off allowing the pistons and valves to meet.

If in doubt change it again cos the valves on the K4/K7 are rediculously fragile and a rebuild isn't cheap but don't pay anymore than £250-300 for it all to be supplied and fitted!
 
  Clio 172 ph1
I've had a quote from Bucks Renaults (independent but specialist garage) of £546, and another from a local independent French Car Garage who have always sorted my old Pugs out of £400.

God only knows what Renault themselves want for it, I don't know where my "local" Renault garage is though!

Edit: Perrys, it would be *sigh* they want ONE THOUSAND POUNDS for a cambelt change! FFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUU
 
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gilmour182

ClioSport Club Member
  Clio 182 cup
If people are lookin on here for info on cam belt change, then dont let it go the 72K, Do the lot each 36K with aux belt kit.
Trust me, i'm om my second engine. Have a feeling that my problem was the oil leak from the rocker cover.
 
  Clio 172 ph1
A day in the local French Car garage, £540 later and I have a new cambelt kit & water pump, I initially asked them to the aux too as I don't have much history for the car but they said it looks new so let it be!

I feel much happier driving it now, cambelt was overdue so I was always worried it was gonna snap! >_<
 
  S4 Avant
I initially asked them to the aux too as I don't have much history for the car but they said it looks new so let it be!

Oh dear. Should have told them to change it regardless! The design on the F4R, means that if the aux belt goes it can wrap around the crank pulley and take out the cambelt as well.
 


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