Clio 4RS guesstimate prices (almost) released...

[Lal B3N]

Colt Ralliart 147bhp - £11800. Bargain compared to these numbers!

Apart from they look horrendous and the interior is possibly the worst I have ever seen in a "modern" car.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Colt Ralliart 147bhp - £11800. Bargain compared to these numbers!

They are cheap cause they are rubbish, its not hot, its just a hatch and not a very nice one.

 

[Nik]

For reference: http://www.cliosport.net/forum/show...port-197-finally-announced&highlight=Clio+197

Interesting to read some of the initial reactions to the Mk 3 RS

 

[david hodson]

I was suprised when i saw the price was over 20k ,but no one ever pays full price on a renault from the dealers , not saying i like it mind
makes the clio 200 look a bespoke car really

 

[Tony Hunter]

For reference: http://www.cliosport.net/forum/show...port-197-finally-announced&highlight=Clio+197

Interesting to read some of the initial reactions to the Mk 3 RS

And how many of them have one now?

 

[Gally]

That thread brought the lols!

 

[Flat Eric]

That thread brought the lols!

Same here.

 

[Rob]

Did anyone actually read that thread? There's not half the negativity.

 

[Hixle]

Did anyone actually read that thread? There's not half the negativity.

I thought that. It's also made me go and have a look at 197's on PH, lol.

 

[Flat Eric]

I thought the same just too. Most of the negativity was the looks, which weren't as bad as this new one.

 

[Flat Eric]

I thought that. It's also made me go and have a look at 197's on PH, lol.

You getting rid of the 500?

 

[Christopher]

Imagine if the 197 was five-door only and has the same bodywork as the £11k car. Lol.

 

[Hixle]

You getting rid of the 500?

Nope! Even when I'm completely happy with a car, I'm always browsing. I'd imagine most car fans do that, no?

Imagine if the 197 was five-door only and has the same bodywork as the £11k car. Lol.

And had the paddles from an xbox steering wheel.

 

[rumble291]

Looks like a Fiesta, mixed with a bit of Leon and bits of other cars.

Must look better in real life... surely.

 

[Flat Eric]

Nope! Even when I'm completely happy with a car, I'm always browsing. I'd imagine most car fans do that, no?

I know what you mean. I tend to not look any more because I get the urge to change. And I want to keep the 182 more. Don't feel I've had a good summer with it yet.

 

[jamier27]

The Boosh talks a lot of sense

 

[Munson]

The Boosh talks a lot of sense

He's using common sense. Whereas some others seem to be channeling negative energy based on idle speculation.

My view: it will be great to drive. The steering wheel will melt. The chairs will be through to the foam in a year. Everyone on here will be proclaiming it the last of the old school when Clio V is announced. End of story IMO.

 

[seb]

Early 197?

Not bad, but hardly class-leading.

I disagree. The 197 was given massive praise. The initial review in autocar magazine by Chris Harris was gushing with praise. A much briefer summary was put on the autocar website. The magazine review stated it was the hot hatch that Porsche would make. The original 197 was superb and literally destroyed the 182.

A revised version of the 2.0-litre four-cylinder engine with continuously variable valve timing and 194bhp is fitted (the 197 being a PS figure) and a six-speed gearbox. What’s it like? In a word, scintillating. Not because it bungs you down the road like an old-school hatch and rattles your fillings. Rather, because Renault has managed to retain most of the inner-hooligan and then injected a massive dose of comfort and refinement. This car has such exceptional damping it will cope with any surface at ludicrous speed without throwing itself into a hedge (historically a common hot hatch issue) and then cruise home. Although the motor needs big revs to work, it is much more linear than before. The gearbox is in a different league and the driving position is sorted. Plus, it has some of the finest front seats ever fitted to a production car. Should I buy one? In an ideal world you should buy at least two, but we would forgive you for taking just the one. The 197 is a very special car. At £15,995, it’s a performance bargain –even if Renault has been a bit cheeky and made climate control and automatic lights/wipers an option. There is no other small hatch so perfectly resolved for UK B-roads. Chris Harris

Chris Harris knows a good car when he drives one. He defo knows a superb car. That is what the 197 was. I imagine the 200 was even better. renault has been leading the class for hot hatches since the 172 tbh.

 

[Dafthead]

Guys, regarding the manual vs. auto debate, assuming this will have some kind of double clutch DCT/DSG technology, I have been a fan of manuals ever since I started driving back in '96, last month I purchased a car with a DCT 'box

I refer you to my third sentence:

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?673771-New-Car-E92-335i

Not for everyone, agreed, but if it's done right, it's fantastic.

 

[RSprojects]

STOP HATING CHAPS ... maybe they'll do a facelift version in 3 years time which will look epic and come in cup form with manual box? i'd buy that!
i recon this car will handle incredibly cant wait to hear a review AS its suppose to be 80-120kG lighter then the mk4. if you check renault website there 1.5 dci models weigh in at 1020kg! so probs will be 1130kg

 

[Flat Eric]

i look forward to test driving one. until then, we can't really say if it will be rubbish or not. don't get me wrong, you can probably say without driving it that a manual version would be a better seller and having the auto as an option. but who knows until they drive it. it could be great.
i look forward to seeing one in person too with regards to the looks. i wasnt keen on the 200 when that come out but i love the look of it now.
i'm not going to lose sleep over this though

 

[Steve]

When JT from RS reports back from a trackday all the haters will form an orderly queue

 

[Tony Hunter]

Was thinking that Steve, these should be out at the RS trackdays this year. Should be fun.

 

[Richyy182]

Re: Clio 4RS prices released...

They certainly arent going to shift many if the advert looks like this:

For sale:

Renault Clio
5 doors
1.6
auto


22,000 pounds

hahahaha

 

[Bluebeard]

I love how people are telling other people that they'll like the auto box!

I won't. Unless i'm slouched in a car with a very low seat and a fat comfy armrest, a la big BMW/AUDI etc, I like manual gearboxes. I don't care if the auto box is faster than the speed of sound and has 35 seamless gear changes, I like changing gear using a clutch and a stick. It's as simple as that.

 

[MarkCup]

...so probs will be 1130kg

It won't.

The weight savings are comparable if you look at a 5-door mk3 versus the 5-door mk4.

The 200 is changing from a 3-door to 5-door though, so weight wise will be lighter from the technology, but heavier from the extra doors...so pretty much the same.

 

[RSprojects]

found a vid of it in action looks like it grips well ! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-tbyiLqXa0

 

[The Boosh!]

Interesting article:

http://www.autocar.co.uk/blogs/motoring/manual-gearboxes-are-history-will-we-really-miss-them

 

[MarkCup]

Brilliant comment on that...

Bicycles of course nowadays have gearchangers that are up with the brake levers on the handlebars and this almost completely takes the skill out of changing gear and fun and interaction in riding the bike. On my 25 year old bike, I relish the feeling of being on the edge (of balance) when I take one hand off the handlebars and reach down to swap to the next cog, getting the position just right for the chain to mesh cleanly, whilst negotiating that tricky incline, or thrusting through congested towns. On this basis, I would not buy a new bike now because they all come with the modern gear systems.

How many proclaiming the drop of the manual box being a heinous crime feel the same about shifting on their bike?

 

[Bluebeard]

You can't fall off your car though.

And anyone who looks down to change gear in a car needs to have their license revoked.

 

[The Boosh!]

To be fair his article is very one sided, however he makes some valid points. As do many of the people who are commenting on his article providing counter arguments. It's all down to personal preference I guess.

 

[Lal B3N]

found a vid of it in action looks like it grips well ! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-tbyiLqXa0

Looks good there.

 

[scotty10]

You can't fall off your car though.

And anyone who looks down to change gear in a car needs to have their license revoked.

i would say that wouldnt be the worst thing that ive seen some drivers do

 

[MarkCup]

...he makes some valid points.

The main points I see are that they are more efficient...both for ultimate performance and fuel economy.

It's only a matter of time before legislation means manual 'boxes will be no more.

Having spent years working on heel/toe/double de-clutch that makes me sad.

Having spent years also working on left foot braking it makes me very happy.

 

[Rob]

I love it it says the manual is dead, but no one really explains why.

I don't see how it's an advancement, it's just different, and just being different doesn't warrant getting rid of the original one.

Is it faster? Sure. Is changing gear as fast as possible any concern to a lot of road car drivers? Not really.

If you're telling me that being ultimate performance and getting the best fuel economy is the be all and end all, half the cars on the market just would not exist.

 

[Gally]

http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=26974

PH article, my point about the CSL reinforced by Dan in there.

 

[MarkCup]

I love it it says the manual is dead, but no one really explains why.

I don't see how it's an advancement, it's just different, and just being different doesn't warrant getting rid of the original one.

Is it faster? Sure. Is changing gear as fast as possible any concern to a lot of road car drivers? Not really.

If you're telling me that being ultimate performance and getting the best fuel economy is the be all and end all, half the cars on the market just would not exist.

I agree, but I'm not talking about today, I'm talking about the future...ever more stringent emission requirements need technologies to deliver. When taxation moves to really penalise the driver of a fuel inefficient car, the difference between offering a manual v auto could mean a huge difference to running costs. Which would/could in turn mean manufacturers ultimately move away from manual's all together.

As the PH article states, RenaultSport and Porsche both see the market heading that way.

I am a luddite btw, will hate to see the manual go, but until I get behind the wheel of a RS200 or GT3, unlike most, I'm keeping an open mind.

 

[Wick]

Interesting article:

http://www.autocar.co.uk/blogs/motoring/manual-gearboxes-are-history-will-we-really-miss-them

And when the right road appears and those horns emerge from your temples, as they do from time to time, you can switch to manual – sometimes even to sport manual – and the thing will slice between ratios faster and more efficiently than you could ever manage manually. In turn, this will enable you to concentrate more clearly on the pleasures of pure driving – of turning in, braking, exploiting the balance and using the power of your car – more precisely than you ever could with three pedals and a lever to also think about.

No ta. I'll just go and play on the playstation.

That statement couldn't be more wrong and I am with Daniel 1,000,000 % on this one.

ETA: Also bear in mind that at present, most auto's are still LESS efficient than their manual counterparts... on the whole.

 

[J.B.]

The manual gearbox is not dead because of one thing - cost. Journalists are annoying. Most of them have not worked in the industry, yet they write as if they have a superior knowledge base. Everyone who works in the car industry could write some fascinating articles about the direction the auto industry is taking, but then we'd all get fired.

It's an industry driven by making money and therefore manual gearboxes will be around as long as they are cheaper than automatics, or until they become unsuitable for the engines.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Decent paddle boxes are inevitably going to take over from manuals eventually, I agree with that from the article, although as J.B says costs need to come down first, and it used to sadden me the manual box will one day go till I drove an F430, but now I dont mind as it didnt take away from the drive, it added to it in some ways being able to keep the engine on song so well without even need to take my hand off the wheel, and I do agree that in 20 years time people will think it laughable that people once had to manually alter the speed the clutch engaged at using their foot.
I still like manuals at the moment but only cause 99% of my point of reference is rubbishy autos and slow paddles, but when you get paddles right it works well in a performance car.

How many people who really dislike paddles in this thread also really dislike seqential gearboxes like a sadev out of interest?