Clio Air box development

[TOGUSA]

over the years people have used a lot of different types of air box's on there cars, from standard right up to £350+ of maxogen induction kits,

Basically i have a lot of time on my hands and a knowledge of cad software and plenty of useful applications at my disposal and was thinking if it would be worth me trying to develop a cheap to produce and cheap to sell or some kind of kit to replace or improve the standard air box or to develop something that we could sell through the forum (sort of like a built in house type product)

so do you guys think it would be worth the pursuit or just leave it to the big companies to pursue

any ideas welcome, even if you deem it pointless,

cheers
Dave

 

[Gstar2006]

Speak to Icarus mate although he may say that all the hard work has been done with the ITG maxogen series boxes with their research in motorsport etc...

 

[Riley!]

a copy of the BMC CDA would be awsome

 

[JoedotwasT5phy]

Just copy an expensive set-up. I'll test it

 

[TOGUSA]

well iv just been looking at how they price up the kits on a site that sells the kit in whole form or in bits, from what i can see 250 quid of a maxogen is in the carbon air box! the real filter part is only 45 quid!
so it might be something if we can develop an cheap similar sized air box and retro fit a cheap itg filter within or leave people to put there own filter in, in an attempt to keep the initial costs down,

what would be the most desirable cold air feed size that people would be able to use, obviously bigger the better but we still need to be able to run it to the right location where its going to get the most benefit would 80mm be big enough or would people want a 100mm option?

 

[JoedotwasT5phy]

I'd go for 80mm. 100mm too much imo

 

[Riley!]

i've just fitted a 76mm trumpet in my lower grill and to get a bigger one in there i would say it would be a cut the bumper job. So 76mm for me, but those that dont want to run a trumpet in grill could go bigger

 

[Riley!]

surely a fiberglass airboxcould be fabricated for very little money. The sub £100 barrier for an awesome filter set up is achievable

 

[JoedotwasT5phy]

surely a fiberglass airboxcould be fabricated for very little money. The sub £100 barrier for an awesome filter set up is achievable

I know a decent Fibre glass guy....

 

[Riley!]

tricky part is getting hold of a itg set up to copy. Looking at there set up and only seen a pic fitted but cant work out from this whether it has 1 or 2 cold air feeds

 

[fUbAr]

the Ph1 172 airbox does the job perfectly, is cheap, is OEM so easy to buy, and is pretty much a bigger plastic version of the Maxogen (admittedly it doesn't sound as good)

If I was to change the airbox in my car, thats what I would buy.

 

[Riley!]

between you both you could set up an extremely good piece of kit. I've thought about a ITG a lot and then, theres the price 300+ and then I think can almost get a pair of second hand 428 cams for that thanks

 

[Riley!]

the Ph1 172 airbox does the job perfectly, is cheap, is OEM so easy to buy, and is pretty much a bigger plastic version of the Maxogen.

If I was to change the airbox in my car, thats what I would buy.

how many cold air feeds are there on the ph1 box? seen a couple of people running this set up, but none with proven gains unlike the maxogen . .

 

[fUbAr]

2 feeds.

It really is just like an overgrown Maxogen

 

[Riley!]

I think part of the maxogens success is down to there silicone elbow also tbh . . .

 

[fUbAr]

Yeah I agree, the standard elbow is crap.

 

[Riley!]

good pic of the maxogen if you wanted to copy is on link below. Get hold of a ITG filter and build it around the set up. Job done. Maybe use there elbow too, how much do they sell them for?

http://www.motorsportworld.co.uk/frame-detail.asp?PAGE=/ITG-maxogen-filters.htm

 

[MRBILLYUK]

This is what i currently have in my 182 , bit of a prototype , running both the original CAF's . It has a Green cone cotton airfilter inside i also have a K+N cone cotton air filter identical in size , when i get time i'll fit 2 70mm CAF's and ditch the OEM ones . Both filters have a larger surface area than the original panel filter .

 

[TOGUSA]

that looks spot on how did you create the cylinder? how did you wield it etc details if you don't mind you could pm me if you don't want to advertise.

i would love to see some drawings of your idea if you didn't mind

 

[TOGUSA]

what hose diameter is needed for the throttle body?

 

[TOGUSA]

"Maybe use there elbow too, how much do they sell them for?"
i cant find anywhere selling them separate

 

[fUbAr]

samco do a silicon elbow with breather pipe.

 

[Sir_Dave]

Read this: http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?t=285984

Its an overview of the V6 airbox mod, ie 100mm intake version of the ph1 airbox. Might be worth basing it on this ... admitedly i dont know what my 172 cup was totally standard, but it got 148AW (177Fly) with just that & a ktec stealth

Markcup has a rolling road print out before/after he fitted his, so a pm to him might be worthwhile ...

 

[Tav]

I'd be looking to copy the Maxogen using cheaper materials/method of production. Fiberglass is all well and good but it's still a hand laid material and takes time to do.

Manufacturing on a more industrial scale but with a method that still has low set up costs would be better...rotomoulding perhaps...not 100% sure on costs but it would be well suited to creating a 1 piece hollow item. The cost of materials would certainly be a tiny percentage of the cost of carbon fiber...there would still be some financial outlay that people would have to be confident they would recoup.

 

[TOGUSA]

brill worth looking into, wish it still had the pics

 

[.Ben.]

Seriously, be careful about this 'copying' lark! Patents and IP could be compromised if you're not careful!

Just in case anyone's watching this thread... :nono: :S

[whisper]
I'd have one though!
[/whisper]

 

[fuel_slut]

Dont know why everyone bangs on about air filters all the time. The best setup in the world would only see 2-3 bhp gain which is nothing.

Just wang a quality panel filter in there and a decent CAF.

 

[Tav]

I don't think you can patent a cylindrical tube of material...and if there were any issues with the shape then it could be altered slightly to avoid infringing any patents. I believe the ITG isn't too dissimilar to the V6 air box any way? You could even make the main filter body and the 'snorkle' two separate parts.

 

[fuel_slut]

As I recall the biggest restriction on the RS clio air in take is the 90 degree bend and not the airbox/filter.

A cup racer setup has a relocated battery and straight as possible intake pipe from the passenger front head light.

You can just about see here:

Or there is also the Ghetto method:

 

[Riley!]

the throttle body size is 70mm dude. Dont like the look of the caf trumpet out of headlight method IMO. Yes the 90 degree bend is restrictive, but still more can be done with the battery in original location. As quoted on ITG website there filter gives a peak gain of 7bhp and before you say it yes it is proven. My guesses are about 50% of that gain is from there silicone elbow alone, then filter surface area plays a roll and obviously for that you need a different airbox. Then theres things to think about like air turbulance and air feed. Looking at the inlet system design on the 172/182 turbulance will be created in the plenum so thats not such a big issue to worry about in terms of design of the airbox. So bigger air box that houses the ITG filter that looks 'similar' to maxogen/v6 would be a winner if you ask me

Keep at this one gents theres enough people saying there interested (me included) for it to be worth looking into

 

[TOGUSA]

Right we need to think of materials, it needs to be cheap to produce and replicatable
would rather i didnt use carbon fiber as that seems to force the price up to almost double, so would a thermo plastic be anygood for this type of application or are we going to be looking at harder sureness to withstand heat?
any ideas?

 

[Riley!]

depends what temperature the thermo plastic melts at. Not clued up on the stuff but if theres one that can withstand about 150 degrees celcius then that would work. What you thinking . . . . injection mold?

 

[Tom@JMS]

depends what temperature the thermo plastic melts at. Not clued up on the stuff but if theres one that can withstand about 150 degrees celcius then that would work. What you thinking . . . . injection mold?

simple moulds for the injection process cost more than a clio lol

 

[TOGUSA]

i was thinking suction molding, im sure i can get hold of or even make a rudimentary suction molding equipment,
make the mold out of wood or hard foam, and get hold of something like a 1mm acrylic or 1mm thermo plastic substance

 

[Riley!]

as mentioned before there always fiberglass & aluminium

 

[Riley!]

dont know if 1mm will cut it tbh, would probable crack after a few harsh bumps. I was thinking more along the lines of 3mm

 

[TOGUSA]

that would be very hard to mold with tbh but its worth a shot, as for the metal a .8m sheet of stainless rolled and wielded would be good but with metal prices today it prob couldn't be done cheap, but its worth a look

 

[Riley!]

or even try a 2mm one and give it a months trial on your car.

 

[Riley!]

Get it done and give it a trial

 

[Ben10]

and would this set up be suitable for other models of clio? ie. adaptable?