Clio williams

[steVee 6]

well if you think you can make it through a few posts without falling back to your usual abusive self as i have witnessed on this forum i can show in plain and simple facts why the williams is just average.

its not trolling its just i dont have the passion for the williams that you do, it just strikes as a very plain and fairly average dull car.

 

[theduck]

I'd be interested in these plain simple facts as to why the Williams is merely average

 

[Ian_182]

Tight corners especially. There is no denying that a williams will carry more speed through the corner. end of

EVO tested the willy and the 172mk2 when it came out

Shockingly the 172 braked quicker,handled better and faster round a track and was quicker to 60 and 100mph.It also pulled more G's through a corner.

 

[Ali]

At cadwell the willy pulled a car lengh or 2 into the twisty bits! Then it was easily caught through the longer corners and on the straights!

 

[steVee 6]

First off Renaults own figures clearly puts the V6 a mile ahead of the Williams now that’s a fact,, we can all bleat on about what we have seen on trackdays.

Personally I have whooped Williams clios all day long on track even the ones who have lied about the mods they have done, I have been overtaken by 2 only, one fully stripped track car the other with an Audi TT engine.

Why do I say there average well tbh I find all fwd cars very average that’s not to say some are not quick but that the driving experience is bland and far to uninvolving. Of the same era was the BMW E30 M3 which if we are honest is ten times the car a Williams could ever hope to be, a faster car and a far better drive.

The V6 Clio is not the car it could have been for sure but there is no doubt it is the quickest Clio, on top of that it is a far more interesting drive, a drive that is not made easy and one that takes time to learn to get anywhere near the best from.

 

[theduck]

Right, so all FWD cars are average? Says it all really

 

[Ali]

First off Renaults own figures clearly puts the V6 a mile ahead of the Williams now that’s a fact,, we can all bleat on about what we have seen on trackdays.

Personally I have whooped Williams clios all day long on track even the ones who have lied about the mods they have done, I have been overtaken by 2 only, one fully stripped track car the other with an Audi TT engine.

Why do I say there average well tbh I find all fwd cars very average that’s not to say some are not quick but that the driving experience is bland and far to uninvolving. Of the same era was the BMW E30 M3 which if we are honest is ten times the car a Williams could ever hope to be, a faster car and a far better drive.

The V6 Clio is not the car it could have been for sure but there is no doubt it is the quickest Clio, on top of that it is a far more interesting drive, a drive that is not made easy and one that takes time to learn to get anywhere near the best from.

Even with the Hankooks or Kummo tyres! lol

 

[Wobba]

The Williams isn't about straight line speed. It's about the sheer fun factor. However, it can sure as hell keep up with if not beat a lot of modern day so-called 'performance-cars'.

The latest incarnation of Performance Car did a review in issue 1 on the 197 Cup and loved it. Then they drove it head to head vs Williams. Clearly, something about the Willy really hit the spot with the reviewers, as they announced the Williams to still be King of the Hill...

Some of you older folk may remember the review EVO did about 4 years ago, the 'Performance Car of the Decade'. Pretty serious review eh? And guess what came about 5th or 6th: Clio Williams. Not bad for a car that cost £13k when new and had just 150 bhp. There have been loads of articles like this, pretty much all concluding the same thing.

What I am trying to say is this: It's never been about straight line speed, and to be honest neither is the Mk1 16v. Personally, if thats what I wanted I'd go jap Turbo power ('cept I am bored of that).

The Williams earned a place as a legend many years ago. Legends don't die

 

[Lagerlout]

EDIT - Agree with that ^^^^ But all the Williams owners on here live their life 1/4 mile at a time lol

Why is it, then whenever someone comes on and says a 1*2 has pulled a few car lengths on a Willy, or that a Willy might just not be the quickest thing on earth, do they immeadiately get written off as bad examples or sheds by the same people everytime?

 

[Wizbit]

EVO tested the willy and the 172mk2 when it came out

Shockingly the 172 braked quicker,handled better and faster round a track and was quicker to 60 and 100mph.It also pulled more G's through a corner.

Which issues was that in?

I would not disagree with the 172 having a better 60-100mph time and better brakes, but in my experience the Williams will go round a corner faster than a 172. It just feels more planted and has less body roll.
When I did a track day at Donington, found that my Williams could simply carry more speed through corners than a 172. On Craner Curves especially I could catch other cars up as I could go flat out (100mph+) through there.

oh, and the WIlliams came 6th in EVO's drivers car of the decade 1994-2004

 

[Mark One]

EVO tested the willy and the 172mk2 when it came out

Shockingly the 172 braked quicker,handled better and faster round a track and was quicker to 60 and 100mph.It also pulled more G's through a corner.

Which issues was that in?

I would not disagree with the 172 having a better 60-100mph time and better brakes, but in my experience the Williams will go round a corner faster than a 172. It just feels more planted and has less body roll.
When I did a track day at Donington, found that my Williams could simply carry more speed through corners than a 172. On Craner Curves especially I could catch other cars up as I could go flat out (100mph+) through there.

oh, and the WIlliams came 6th in EVO's drivers car of the decade 1994-2004

Agreed there! the MK1s have better cornering grip IMHO except in the wet when they plain a bit.
Link to said evo reveiw or is it magazine only.
My valver will provide more grip through corners than my 172 end of. And the 172 is on eagle F1s to the valvers rainsports.

 

[Lagerlout]

Remember than article was based on the opinions of proffesional racing drivers on a closed circiut. Not joe public following his gran on the way to Tescos' lol

I wouldn't get too hung up on it.

 

[Wobba]

EVO tested the willy and the 172mk2 when it came out

Shockingly the 172 braked quicker,handled better and faster round a track and was quicker to 60 and 100mph.It also pulled more G's through a corner.

Which issues was that in?

This one I think...August 2001?

 

[Lagerlout]

Somebody has a scan of it on here somewhere I'm sure.

 

[Mark One]

me wants read

 

[Wobba]

Somebody has a scan of it on here somewhere I'm sure.

I think these are the ones?

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w102/barneywobba/EVO%202001/evo0108b.jpg

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w102/barneywobba/EVO%202001/evo0108c.jpg

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w102/barneywobba/EVO%202001/evo0108d.jpg

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w102/barneywobba/EVO%202001/evo0108e.jpg

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w102/barneywobba/EVO%202001/evo0108f.jpg

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w102/barneywobba/EVO%202001/evo0108g.jpg

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w102/barneywobba/EVO%202001/evo0108h.jpg

Yes, I know, I rule

 

[Wizbit]

Which issues was that in?

This one I think...August 2001?

Nice find! I will see if my issues go back that far.

 

[Wizbit]

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w102/barneywobba/EVO%202001/evo0108g.jpg

So the Williams was quickest in the dry handling test?


Thanks for the scans, BTW!

 

[Wobba]

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w102/barneywobba/EVO%202001/evo0108g.jpg

So the Williams was quickest in the dry handling test?

Seems so. Mini and 205 did good too.

 

[Lagerlout]

And the 172 was quicker 0-100 and 100-0.

There we are. Everyones happy. Close thread.

 

[MillerLight]

if you have not seen it

197/willy drive 5th gear

[YOUTUBE]ICPAJDNjXCY[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Lagerlout]

I love the way he gets the 197 sideways everywhere lol

Two great Renaults :approve:

 

[MillerLight]

I love the way he gets the 197 sideways everywhere lol

Two great Renaults :approve:

think thats T.N he seem to drive anything sidways

 

[Wobba]

Renault ftw, lets face it, we rule.

 

[Ali]

lol! 20 to 100! :S Sure mine was faster than that!

 

[theduck]

FWD ftw lol

 

[steVee 6]

Right, so all FWD cars are average? Says it all really

but they are,, in the big scheme of things as cheap fun cars there fine but they really are average, there are far better cars to drive if you can’t see that you’re not looking hard enough.

What great races did a Williams Clio ever win to gain such credit none I would say,, even the turbo 2 managed a win at the highest level in the world rally series the Williams did not.

and as for the journos its a case of the emperor’s new clothes, if one says something they all have to say exactly the same or be dammed, might as well be printed in the sun its just garbage.

 

[Lagerlout]

lol! 20 to 100! :S Sure mine was faster than that!

Evo tested one at 18.9 too. Lot's of variable to take into account.

 

[Wobba]

Right, so all FWD cars are average? Says it all really

but they are,, in the big scheme of things as cheap fun cars there fine but they really are average, there are far better cars to drive if you can’t see that you’re not looking hard enough.

What great races did a Williams Clio ever win to gain such credit none I would say,, even the turbo 2 managed a win at the highest level in the world rally series the Williams did not.

and as for the journos its a case of the emperor’s new clothes, if one says something they all have to say exactly the same or be dammed, might as well be printed in the sun its just garbage.

I think it's a little unfair to say the Williams never won anything. It won drivers hearts, real world driving not on some tricked up special stage, and thats the main thing. This is it's epitaph and it's undeniable.

My 2 cents.

 

[MillerLight]

lol! 20 to 100! :S Sure mine was faster than that!

Evo tested one at 18.9 too. Lot's of variable to take into account.

ive read a 197 does 0-100 in 18.7

 

[Wobba]

I'd also like to speculate that around the time of the Williams, Renault had pulled a fair whack of funding away from WRC, as it was then. The homologation system was different, the Willy didn't have a turbo and was in a different class to the Turbo 5's. I think this is correct?

Also, I am pretty sure, though not certain, that Ragnotti and people of his ilk did in fact rack up numerous victories in the 2.0L N/A classes for the Williams in Grp N rallying.

 

[Lagerlout]

Evo tested one at 18.9 too. Lot's of variable to take into account.

ive read a 197 does 0-100 in 18.7

Sounds pretty feasible. The 197, Ph2 172 and Williams have near identical power to weight ratios iirc.

I'd bet mine would be under 20 comfortably with a good take off. Mines standard in williams owners eyes too.

 

[steVee 6]

don’t get to hung up about wrc look at all races and what did it ever achieve on the world stage,, tbh absolutely jack sh1t.

class wins good grief is that it well i am bowled over by its epic pedigree what a truly awesome car,, not.

fellas its done nowt,, it’s a nice little cheap car and good fun, fairly average and that’s it.

why the williams owners want to pull other renaults to bits in favour of one of these things is beyond me.

 

[theduck]

do you even know why Renault built the Williams?

 

[Wizbit]

Renault ftw, lets face it, we rule.

Amen, brother.

 

[steVee 6]

do you even know why Renault built the Williams?

more to the point do i even care.

they did not build it because of the events won by a clio did they.??

 

[theduck]

do you even know why Renault built the Williams?

more to the point do i even care.

they did not build it because of the events won by a clio did they.??

No they did not, it was due to success in F1. So they took the 1.8 16v and made it something special by uprating engine size, chassis and even widened the track. More reason to it than the Vee

 

[Ian_182]

Please

 

[MillerLight]

"Respected motoring journalists consistently rate the Williams as one of the very best hot hatches ever made[citation needed], regardless of era. One common mistake people can make is thinking that the 2.0 16V (F7R) used in the Williams is simply a bored out 1.8 16V (F7P), whereas, in reality the large engine had different size valves, cams and crank. Other differences between the Williams and the Clio 16S it is based on include a wider front track with some parts borrowed from the Renault 19. wider speedline alloys, uprated (JC5) gearbox, bespoke four-to-one manifold, firmer suspension and some cosmetic differences on the exterior and interior."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clio_Williams#Clio_Williams

 

[steVee 6]

no this is why they built it.

"In 1993, Renault launched the Clio Williams with a limited run of 2500, for racing homologation purposes"

the F1 williams linkage was not the sole reason, they wanted to race the car which brings me back to what did it achieve, nothing.

and for the record i am not the one bleating on about how good the Vee is as it also has done jack sh1t,, my only point is that the williams is average no more.

i dont normally go in for pointing out these facts but this site seems to enjoy tearing each others renaults to bits so this is my turn to say, if you think the V6 is bad just have a close look at the williams its very very average.