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Cold Air Feeds?



  Black-Gold 182
Hi all,

I've just bought a bargain K&N airfilter off E-bay (£30 incl P&P), and fitted it to my 182 last night! I'm really pleased with the increase in torque (and noise!) that it's provided.

Looking on the K&N website, this should have had a cold air feed - is it worth me forking out for a seperate, or is it not worth the hassle? What's the benifits of the cold air feed (yeah, I know it provides cold air for your air filter) - would I actually notice any difference?

Ta!

MB_182
 
  C-VXR, T8 Map 220BHP
Running a open IK without a cold air feed will almost defiantly lead to a drop in power. I would highly recommend getting one, as you will be sucking in massive amounts of hot air other wise.

Most peps on her would prob recommend you use either a panel filter in the original air box or to used a enclosed induction kit such as a Moxogon or BMC CDA. As open I.K really suffer from the heat under the bonnet as unlike most cars there is absolutely no room for cool air to circulate..

You can get fairly poor foil feeds from halfrurds for about a fiver.
 
  RenaultSport 197
If anything like Tez said, it's going to be responsiveness. You should get better torque and maybe a few BHP, but not massive amount of bhp from an exposed IK. You wont get any gain from the CAF as it's not the CAF that is attached to your inlet, the power comes from the filter and how much cold air gets to it.

If you get a BMC or P-X Viper closed IK you will get a more noticable feel when you plant your foot on the pedal as they have less heat soak then an open air IK. You need to eradicate heat soke for maximum gains, hence better CAF and uprated filter provides that. Alternatively just an uprated sports panel filter will also do the trick.
 
defo get a cold air feed, other wise you suck up warm/hot air and the engine dont like that.
i noticed a difference as soon as mine was fitted.
 
  RenaultSport clio 172 mk2
Thanks, but what are the benefits? Will it improve power/torque/responsivness?

Manufacturers put warm air feeds on cars for a reason. Because its harder to atomise fuel into cold air than warm. So if you want best specific fuel consumption and minimum emissions you are better off feeding an engine warm air.

Yes you can get a greater maximum power out of a car with a cold air feed because there's more oxygen in denser colder air. Providing your ECU looks at the intake air temperature and feeds in more fuel. But in all circumstances cold air reduces economy.

That's why the standard Clio Sport air cleaner has two intake ducts. One on the bottom that picks up warm air that's open all the time. And one on the side that has a valve in it that only opens up at higher revs and higher throttle openings, and when it does it feeds the engine colder air. That is, it gives the best of both worlds when they are required. Power when that's what you want, and economy and lower emission when you don't.

It always astounds me that people whose only knowledge of a car is an ability to drive one, and not necessarily well, think they know better than the professional engineers who designed their car.
 
  Black-Gold 182
^^^^

I'm not sure if I should be offended or not by that comment!

Does anyone know of a company that does airboxs for K&N filters? I might have to make one at this rate! Got a rought idea in my head how to do it, but have heard that old Rover 810 Airfilter boxs are an easy mod to convert to a cone airfilter housing.

Am thinking a plastic/aluminium cylinder that would go around the filter, effectivly acting as a shield, with an intake port & hose on the side sucking in the ambient air from outside.

MB_182
 

Tom

ClioSport Club Member
  EV (s)
All this effort is ruined by the UBER hot oil vapour coming in the breather pipe.

Unless you fix that this is all pointless.
 
  RenaultSport 197
^^^^

I'm not sure if I should be offended or not by that comment!

Does anyone know of a company that does airboxs for K&N filters? I might have to make one at this rate! Got a rought idea in my head how to do it, but have heard that old Rover 810 Airfilter boxs are an easy mod to convert to a cone airfilter housing.

Am thinking a plastic/aluminium cylinder that would go around the filter, effectivly acting as a shield, with an intake port & hose on the side sucking in the ambient air from outside.

MB_182

All he is saying is:

Warm Air = Better economy and less emissions
Cold Air = Better performance/ power

The 57i Kit (that is what you have bought isnt it??) is an open filter designed NOT to be in an airbox, so there is no point trying to custom make a box to put it in. Just leave it open and run some cold air to it. Otherwise if you wanted it in an Airbox you may have just as well bought a sports panel filter.
 
  Tangoed Works
I have a panel filter and make the car a lot more throttle responsive especially lower down in the rev range.
 
  Black-Gold 182
Otherwise if you wanted it in an Airbox you may have just as well bought a sports panel filter.


I went for a K&N cone filter as I knew that they give better increases in torque over the sports panel filters. Additionally, the reason I went for this particular one was because I was on a budget (I don't have hundreds of pounds to throw at my car unfortunatly, as I'd have a V not a 182 if I did!)

I am not after serious increases in horsepower - I know that a filter change would never have that effect. Truth is I felt my car was getting a little breathless towards the top end so felt like a little more torque would help - the K&N sounds nice with its induction noise also. It's done that job, but I was just enquiring what effect the cooling ducts would have, and if the effect outweighed the effort of fitting one.

I've had my question answered, and a cold air duct would be canceled out by the hot air of an engine bay (as I thought), so an enclosure/sheilding would help with this.

Ok, rant over.
 
What do i do to stop the oil breather pipe then just get one of those mini filters from halfords and block the hole in the induction pipe?
 
  Nissan Pulsar GTiR
Otherwise if you wanted it in an Airbox you may have just as well bought a sports panel filter.


I went for a K&N cone filter as I knew that they give better increases in torque over the sports panel filters. Additionally, the reason I went for this particular one was because I was on a budget (I don't have hundreds of pounds to throw at my car unfortunatly, as I'd have a V not a 182 if I did!)

I am not after serious increases in horsepower - I know that a filter change would never have that effect. Truth is I felt my car was getting a little breathless towards the top end so felt like a little more torque would help - the K&N sounds nice with its induction noise also. It's done that job, but I was just enquiring what effect the cooling ducts would have, and if the effect outweighed the effort of fitting one.

I've had my question answered, and a cold air duct would be canceled out by the hot air of an engine bay (as I thought), so an enclosure/sheilding would help with this.

Ok, rant over.
Don't get wound up bud, every forum has the know it all (well, they think they do), who likes to put people down. Plus, if you were worried about fuel economy, you wouldn't want to do 'power' mods, would you ?! ;)

Everyone needs to understand that a production car is always a build with a large amount of compromise and, that they can always be improved upon.

If you have an open type filter like the 57i, you'll always suffer from some sort of warm/hot air induction, no matter what you do, unless you put it in and enclosure.
If you get a cold air feed to it, you'll get the benefits whilst on the move but, when you stop at lights etc... you'll just be sucking in warm under bonnet air.
When you are moving though, a decent sized cold air feed (70mm+) will help you maximise the better flow capabilities of the K&N filter.

As for enclosing it, the filter is designed increase air flow capacity into you engine, nothing else. It doesn't know or care whether it is enclosed or not. If you did enclose it though, you certain to see benefits, as long as you design the enclosure well. With this, what you're trying to do is not restrict the new found flow capacity of the 57i. So, regardless of the actual enclosure size, you'll need a good sized air feed into it.
As you're on a budget, I'd discount the idea of building an enclosure.

If it were me, I'd sell the 57i and go for a K&N or Green panel filter, in your stock air box. Seal off the hot air intake, mentioned above, and enlarge the cold air intake, connected to a nice large diameter cold intake pipe, to the front of the car or, somewhere it won't suck up warm air.
I'll be doing something similar when the other halfs R27 turns up.
 
  Black-Gold 182
^^^^
Cheers mate. Will bare that in mind.

And don't worry - I know that there are no-it-alls about. Makes the forum more interesting! ;-)

will have a think about the cone - have looked at some aftermarket casings you can get directly designed for the 57i http://www.reverie.ltd.uk/shop/products.php?g1=524c75 More or less what I was thinking of making - got a mate with a C&C machine...
 
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  Nissan Pulsar GTiR
sweet as a nut. next mod then lol, i remeber reading it wil need to be plugged back in for the MOT though yeah?
Can't see why ?!

All the crankcase breather does is allow the by products of combustion, to exit the crank case, via the cylinder bores, usually taking a small amount of oil with it.
Essentially, the car manufacturers plumb this back into the the intake track, to get rid of it easily. Unfortunately, in the process of going back through the engine, it will heat up your intake charge, coat the intake track with a light film of oil and dilute your fuel mixture, thus dropping it's octane rating.
If anything, without it routing the stock way, your exhaust emissions will be a smidge cleaner as, the whole cumbustion process should be improved.
Personally, I think that if you upgrade the induction system on your car, you should do away with the stock crankcase breather system at the same time.

My Pulsar has been running with a modified breather system, using a catch tank that vents to atmosphere, for 3 or 4 years and I wouldn't dream of putting it back to stock. The power of the engine certainly hasn't suffered. ;)
 
Thats cool, thankyou for the detailed explantion!! But surely if it blows out rather than suck then why would you need a filter? I may just cut the pipe and cable tie some foam over it.
 
  Nissan Pulsar GTiR
But surely if it blows out rather than suck then why would you need a filter?
To stop any potential oil mist going all over your engine bay ! ;)

The foam idea will work and realistically, a foam filter will stop more oil than a cotton based one but, it might look a bit.......... well, pony and trap ?!
 
Valid point lol, its behind the block anyway so it wouldnt be visible. ah well ill have a play when i get home and see how it goes, cheers.
 
  a thirsty one
i remember hearing/reading somewhere a while ago that the oil vapour relased back into the intake assist in lubricating throttle body etc and the oil vapour helps keep it all running nice and smooth without the springs stiffening etc?

is that rubbish?
 
  Nissan Pulsar GTiR
i remember hearing/reading somewhere a while ago that the oil vapour relased back into the intake assist in lubricating throttle body etc and the oil vapour helps keep it all running nice and smooth without the springs stiffening etc?

is that rubbish?
Yes, that's rubbish. :)

Firstly, the throttle butterfly shaft will usually be mounted in brass or similar bushes. There really self lubricate.

Secondly, the shaft will be fairly well sealed, into these bushes (air tight in fact) so, no oil will penetrate any way.

Thirdly, the return spring will be on the outside of the throttle body and so, will never see any oil mist.

Finally, springs do not need lubricating, from my knowledge ?!

The only reason it gets vented back into the intake, is so you don't have blow by gasses and oil getting into the atmosphere and, all over your engine bay. ;)
 

MRBILLYUK

ClioSport Club Member
  FF Jeden Osiem Dwa
^^^^

I'm not sure if I should be offended or not by that comment!

Does anyone know of a company that does airboxs for K&N filters? I might have to make one at this rate! Got a rought idea in my head how to do it, but have heard that old Rover 810 Airfilter boxs are an easy mod to convert to a cone airfilter housing.

Am thinking a plastic/aluminium cylinder that would go around the filter, effectivly acting as a shield, with an intake port & hose on the side sucking in the ambient air from outside.

MB_182

Here's one i made for my k+n cone filter . It uses both the original air feeds , its closed at the front , it will be at the back when i can be bothered , lol . It definitely doesn't lose power , sounds sweet when you boot it ;) . But i'm pretty sure it's contributed to my poor mpg ,the k+n filter has a larger surface area than the orginal panel filter .

KN5aSmall.jpg

KN3aMedium.jpg
 
  Black-Gold 182
MrBilly - Sweet! That's exactly what I had invisioned. For the closure on the outlet end of the casing I was thinking, a circular plate with a hole in for the aperture from the filter - surely that would suffice as a backing plate - the rubber around the tubing would act as a seal there, and a bit of mostic/ silicon around the diameter of the plate would provide an air seal. A fully enclosed system would probably work better as it would "suck" the outside air in because the box would create a partial vaccuum - you'd probably get more power out of it that way (and more MPG as the fuel would burn more efficienetly).

Also, looking at the above posts it might be worth investing in a seperate oil breather system as the warm oil laden air going into your intake wouldn't help matters!

MB_182
 
  Clio 172 mk2
Blocking of the breather and venting the oil vapour it to atmosphere makes no difference in performance.

The only time when it's worthwhile doing is if you have a higly tuned Turbo car so you don't get oil vapour going in at WOT and increasing the chances of det.
 
  Nissan Pulsar GTiR
Blocking of the breather and venting the oil vapour it to atmosphere makes no difference in performance.
Not directly no but, this has been covered above.

The only time when it's worthwhile doing is if you have a higly tuned Turbo car so you don't get oil vapour going in at WOT and increasing the chances of det.
It doesn't mater whether your engine is F/I or N/A, you'll still get oil vapour through the crankcase breather. That's the purpose of the system.
 
  Nissan Pulsar GTiR
Here's one i made for my k+n cone filter . It uses both the original air feeds , its closed at the front , it will be at the back when i can be bothered , lol . It definitely doesn't lose power , sounds sweet when you boot it ;) . But i'm pretty sure it's contributed to my poor mpg ,the k+n filter has a larger surface area than the orginal panel filter .

KN5aSmall.jpg

KN3aMedium.jpg
Nice, quality work bud but, unfortunately until you enclose the rear of the filter, the rest of the work is pretty pointless. As, it'll still be sucking in warm air, and unless there is forced air coming down your cold air feeds, they won't be functional either.

Paul
 

MRBILLYUK

ClioSport Club Member
  FF Jeden Osiem Dwa
^^^ The actual back of the enclosure is almost closed as thats where the back of the cone filter is and the diameter isn't much less than the actual diameter of the enclosure. So it's getting most of the air from the 2 air feeds .
 

MRBILLYUK

ClioSport Club Member
  FF Jeden Osiem Dwa
MrBilly - Sweet! That's exactly what I had invisioned. For the closure on the outlet end of the casing I was thinking, a circular plate with a hole in for the aperture from the filter - surely that would suffice as a backing plate - the rubber around the tubing would act as a seal there, and a bit of mostic/ silicon around the diameter of the plate would provide an air seal. A fully enclosed system would probably work better as it would "suck" the outside air in because the box would create a partial vaccuum - you'd probably get more power out of it that way (and more MPG as the fuel would burn more efficienetly).

Also, looking at the above posts it might be worth investing in a seperate oil breather system as the warm oil laden air going into your intake wouldn't help matters!

MB_182

I've made a circular plate with a 70mm hole through , i just haven't got round to putting it all together yet .
 
  172 Cup
Sorry for digging up an old thread, but it seemed appropriate instead of making a new one. What I'm wondering is it possible or make much of a benifit to have a cold air feed from the fog light, had somthinking similar on my 106 and was wondering if it would be possible on a cli-hoe?

sorry if it seems obvious, but im a renault n00b
 
  Trophy 007
Hi all,

I've just bought a bargain K&N airfilter off E-bay (£30 incl P&P), and fitted it to my 182 last night! I'm really pleased with the increase in torque (and noise!) that it's provided.

Looking on the K&N website, this should have had a cold air feed - is it worth me forking out for a seperate, or is it not worth the hassle? What's the benifits of the cold air feed (yeah, I know it provides cold air for your air filter) - would I actually notice any difference?

Ta!

MB_182

I'm amazed you think there's more torque and that its more responsive. I had one on mine for about 2 weeks in July but took it straight off again. Loads of noise but throttle response was PANTS despite a well placed and ducted CAF and it just felt so lethargic, especially in the summer heat.

I'm sure with 2 degree air flowing through it in these cold winter months it'd be better, but i thought it wasn't worth the box i came in.

I would put money on it that mine had actually lost power
 
  Clio 172 mk2
Not directly no but, this has been covered above.

The only time when it's worthwhile doing is if you have a higly tuned Turbo car so you don't get oil vapour going in at WOT and increasing the chances of det.
It doesn't mater whether your engine is F/I or N/A, you'll still get oil vapour through the crankcase breather. That's the purpose of the system.

Yeah but on highly tuned cars (usually forced induction) a big slug of oil vapour going through the intake could be enough to cause det.

On a normal road going Clio doing it is pointless
 


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