Converting 172 ABS setup to Cup Setup

[Cub.]

Guys,

I've been having problems with the flamer for a while regarding it popping a brake fuse and going 50/50 on the bias. I thought it would be the wire behind the heatshield on the bulkhead, but it isn't , can't see any obvious signs of damage to the loom anywhere.

What parts do I need to change to a Cup set up, and will it need me to alter / do anything with the ECU / UCH etc etc. I have heard it is a pig of a job, but the engine is out at the moment so if I need to do it now is the time!
@chip-mk1 @Budgie @MicKPM @Danlp6 @Fred@BTM.

Cheers,

Oli

 

[Chip-mk1]

Ive not personally done it yet mate, but from what I recall from others who have, you need to change all the brake lines, remove the ABS block, and fit the cup master cylinder. Electronically if you dont mind a light on I dont see why you would need to change anything else. Not sure if putting the light out can be done on clip or not though if it does bother you.

Its on my list of things to do, in fact @Danlp6 has all the bits put to one side for me.

 

[AlexW]

I would imagine you can program ABS out of the dials.

Is it 100% requirement to change the MC, is it not possible to fit a couple of T connections?

 

[Cub.]

Cheers for the replies guys. I've sourced all of the parts needed, and I don't mind a light being on, as long as I can get it to pass an MOT still....

It is the lesser of two evil's really, as I don't want to have to get the loom out of the car to trace the fault I seem to have

 

[Chip-mk1]

Cup setup makes sense for a trackday car anyway really, the normal setup is just extra weight and more to go wrong and the ABS will never do anything useful on a trackday realistically.

 

[Cub.]

Will having the light on mean a MOT failure? I agree - for a track car I'd rather lose the ABS

 

[Budgie]

Yep, it's a failure, but I know a sensible tester.

Or is the light only a failure if the ABS system is fitted an not working. If it's removed, it can't not work. Lol.

 

[Cub.]

I think I may need the use of the sensible tester, and a bulb remover

 

[Edges]

I think there's a clause in mot laws that if a car is obviously modified for track/race/rally use some things like abs and airbags get some more leniency

 

[loggyboy]

Bulb removal in this instance would be fine, as if even if they did think - 'should this cars ABS light be working?', a simple check under the bonnet would reveal no ABS.
Where as if the ABS light was on, even if the ABS was removed, a pedantic inspector may decide thats reason enough to fail, as the car must have had ABS at some point.

 

[loggyboy]

I think there's a clause in mot laws that if a car is obviously modified for track/race/rally use some things like abs and airbags get some more leniency

There is - but its worded '5. Modified Vehicles Where a vehicle has been extensively modified or converted, certain Reasons for Rejection, such as for components ‘missing where fitted as standard’ should not be applied, for example: · a car converted for rally use (i.e. rear seats removed and fitted with a roll cage and full harness seat belts etc.) may have been converted so as not to require a brake servo, power steering or airbags · a car converted to a stretch limousine may no longer be fitted with curtain airbags or functional Electronic Stability Control'
So has to be quite modded to fit in that catagory, you cant just decide 'because racecar'

 

[Fred@BTM]

my abs light is wired to my oil pressure light

 

[Cub.]

Well, given mine has a full roll cage, buckets and harnesses, in addition to already losing the airbags (steering wheel change) then I think it suitably qualifies under that rule.

Fred's idea also sounds like a good one as a back up

 

[MicKPM]

There is one other issue that is being overlooked here Cub/Chip. By removing your ABS you will also remove the speed signal so you will not only have an ABS light on but with the removal of the signal it will also trigger the ESP/TC and EML (as these all require the speed signal to do various jobs taken for granted). This *may* not be an issue if it is a full on trailer queen/track shleeraaag but 172 Cup has a sender in the gearbox to get around this which if you have a Phase 1/1B you will be okay as they share this setup but if your Clio is an all the way gay phase 2 like mine then it won't and unless you change the gearbox you cannot retro fit the setup.

Mick

 

[Cub.]

Ah balls! That puts the dampener on that then, as mine isn't going to be a trailer queen, want to keep it road legal and mine is a full on ph2 like yours. And I'm not changing the box given it's got a gripper in it...

Back to trying to find the original source of the problem then

Cheers Mick. Any suggestions on how best to find the source of the problem?

 

[sbridgey]

You sure its a proper ph2? Quick check online says its an early 02 model. I forget when they changed over fully now?

 

[Cub.]

Ooh it may be Si. It is early 2002. How would I know for sure?

 

[MicKPM]

I know I only suggested to you before in a previous 'touch' on this issue but I still think it relevant... has the Bosch ABS/ESP module been replaced yet as I am pretty certain that your issue of blowing the main fuse is due to an internal module fault which is causing it to draw way too much current when one or more of the valves is being actuated (possibly due to water ingress seeing as your quest for weight reduction has seen the inner arches be removed). If it was a 'short to +12v' it would pop pretty much straight away rather than upon actuation which is why I don't believe its actually wiring.

They are a complete piece of piss to change on the 172/182 and are sub £50 to buy as they rarely go wrong (I've changed two this year) so you should pickup a decent unit for cheap. Just respect putting it all back together as the steel pipes can strip the thread in the aluminium block for fun!

Mick

 

[MicKPM]

You sure its a proper ph2? Quick check online says its an early 02 model. I forget when they changed over fully now?

Ooh it may be Si. It is early 2002. How would I know for sure?

Do you have an ESP button? If so its ABS driven

 

[Cub.]

Do you have an ESP button? If so its ABS driven

Where is the ESP button Mick? I don't think I do have an ESP button from memory, but can check when I am back at home.

If it hasn't got an ESP button, then I can revert back to my plan of swapping to a Cup setup?

 

[MicKPM]

ESP button lives on the panel to the lower right dash area of the steering wheel (where the illumination dimmer and cruise control switches also live if you have them)

If you have the speedo sender gearbox setup then yes you can proceed to rip that s**t out like it ain't no "thaaang" but it will need a session on CLIP to reprog the UCH so it's not looking for CAN info from the ABS module.

 

[Cub.]

ESP button lives on the panel to the lower right dash area of the steering wheel (where the illumination dimmer and cruise control switches also live if you have them)

If you have the speedo sender gearbox setup then yes you can proceed to rip that s**t out like it ain't no "thaaang" but it will need a session on CLIP to reprog the UCH so it's not looking for CAN info from the ABS module.

Appreciate your help mate. I'll have a look tonight

How easy is it for someone to use CLIP to reprogramme the UCH?

 

[MicKPM]

Depends on their ability... shall I expect a call from Dan? lol

 

[Fletcher]

IIRC 172's before 52 plate didn't have ESP.

 

[Budgie]

You definitely have a speedo sensor in the box Cub.

That's the one you looked at me disapprovingly as I ripped out.

 

[Kelv]

If you master a way around this, can you come and do the Trophy aswell please

 

[Dan@SJM]

Lol I'm getting my memory back with clip now. Just the occasional one throws me into "wtf" mode lol.

 

[MicKPM]

Lol I'm getting my memory back with clip now. Just the occasional one throws me into "wtf" mode lol.

l had exactly the same thing with a Scenic earlier today which sent me mental looking for the AC212 command to allow me to fill the HP pump... it's only the low pressure 1.5 so it doesn't have it but I was going stir crazy trying to find it. Sometimes you just need to play with it (Fnaarr Fnaaarr)

 

[Cub.]

You definitely have a speedo sensor in the box Cub.

That's the one you looked at me disapprovingly as I ripped out.

Oh yes. This man is correct, I have no ESP switch, so it looks like game on again

Lol I'm getting my memory back with clip now. Just the occasional one throws me into "wtf" mode lol.

Not planning on heading over Reading way mid-January are you?

l had exactly the same thing with a Scenic earlier today which sent me mental looking for the AC212 command to allow me to fill the HP pump... it's only the low pressure 1.5 so it doesn't have it but I was going stir crazy trying to find it. Sometimes you just need to play with it (Fnaarr Fnaaarr)

Cheers Mick, looks like we'll need you on phone a friend...unless you're coming down South in January

 

[Dan@SJM]

I'm sure I can pop across one day.

 

[Cub.]

I'm sure I can pop across one day.

Legend! I'll cover your costs and we'll sort something out for your time bud

 

[Dan@SJM]

No worries atall mate