ClioSport.net

Register a free account today to become a member!
Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Cup Different ECU





possibly......we dont get the cup till later on.....

But we get aircon, which i suppose is the diff in the ECU as it controls every electronic process on the car. So, i THINK it will vary but i will need to have a look.
 

Rich-D

ClioSport Club Member
  E90 LCI 330d


The Cup has got a re-programmed ECU, I got my mate at Renault to check the differencers between the cars ages ago and he listed them all of, with the ECU being one of the differences.
 


I dont believe its re-programmed unless its for something like accounting for no air con, which isnt really a difference. It produces the same power/torque at the same revs after all. Throttle response is only better because the cars lighter.
 

Rich-D

ClioSport Club Member
  E90 LCI 330d


The Cup does drive differently to a normal mk2, there is a difference in the way the engines behave...
 


Ive just called R Sport and they say the Cup ECU is tweeked to give better throttle response and greater torque, especially at low to mid revs and as such develops more power over a std 172 engine.
 
  S2000


Quote: Originally posted by RobFenn on 25 February 2003

I dont believe its re-programmed unless its for something like accounting for no air con, which isnt really a difference. It produces the same power/torque at the same revs after all. Throttle response is only better because the cars lighter.
Thats what you think :D:devilish:
 


No the cup they used was standard - I think that was the whole point of the feature to see how it compares against heavily modded 172s! but it maybe wasnt - coz I know for sure my rev limit is not 8000rpm? Jas might know ?
 


um, do you really really think Renault will put all that effort into the CUP ECU and not bother with the same one on the 172!!!

I mean, why should the cup have better throttle response than the 172?

I love marketing........poetic licence goes quite far for little money...lol
 
  320d M Sport


Hmm, sorry Im a abit sceptical. If they REALLY have done a different ECU for the cup and it revs to 8000 RPM then surely Reno would be using that as a selling point.... dont u think?

Paddy
 


altering the rpm limit is as easy as changing a number in the program....

and you fall off the cam at about 6800rpm anyway.
 


Cups seem to put out more on the rollers and as previously stated this is down to no air con. and less power drain and possibly a different ECU program. Its not hard to change the parameters to alter timing/etc...

Phase 1, Phase 2 and Cup all have different engine numbers.
 


My take on this is there is something different in the Cup, you only have to drive one to tell that.

However, the major point that is not spoken about much is the suspension /steering, that IS different to the 172 and makes the Cup feel like a different animal. It roles less, turns in quicker and is less likely to cause lift off oversteer (this maybe good or bad depending on personal choice!). These are the changes that make it quicker cross country or on the track, that has been proved by a few road tests. Autocar said the Cup was much more naughty than the 172 and Evo tested it as 2 seconds quicker round Bedford with a racing driver. Basically you paythe money and make your choice. I do think that there is a element of Cup sl*gging from standard 172 owners that smacks of jealousy! (stands back!!!). I dont know how mnay times I have heard about he lack of thisand lack of that - so what, the Cup IS a better car!!!!! LOL!

If I was Renault however, whenit comes to Cup extras - if they ever come! I would only sell them to registered Cup owners, therefore, maintaining the Cup brand.

Twit (removes tongue form cheek!)
 

Rich-D

ClioSport Club Member
  E90 LCI 330d


Quote: Originally posted by CUPSIZE? on 25 February 2003

No the cup they used was standard - I think that was the whole point of the feature to see how it compares against heavily modded 172s! but it maybe wasnt - coz I know for sure my rev limit is not 8000rpm? Jas might know ?
Well, according to PGTi (I have the article in front of me now) they reckon the Cup does have an 8000rpm redline?!

Now I am curious...



And yes, this was a "standard" Cup they were using.
 

Rich-D

ClioSport Club Member
  E90 LCI 330d


Quote: Originally posted by Twit on 25 February 2003


Autocar said the Cup was much more naughty than the 172 and Evo tested it as 2 seconds quicker round Bedford with a racing driver.
What was the lap time for the Cup and the standard 172 then???
 
  Nissan R35 GT-R


The thing is some you are all saying, "Yes it has a different ECU." But I dont think many of you would know a new ECU if it hit you in the face!

If the only thing that is different is the throttle response, then the acceleration fueling parameters may be marginally different, but I doubt it. If it was the case though, how many of you would know that the response you get was down to the ECU? How many of you even know what accelerative fueling is (not you BenR - I know you know)?

The weight saving is enough to make a difference in almost every aspect of the cars characteristics. I doubt it is anything else to be honest.
 


What was the lap time for the Cup and the standard 172 then???

172 = 1.28.85

V6 = 1.28.45

Cup = 1.26.30

Track, bedford Autodrome

Driver, Rick pearson, Clio V6 race driver

Pretty conclusive really, EVO issue 50. Pearsons comment:

would I pay more for a Clio Cup over a standard 172? Yes, but I dont have to!

on the track the cup has more stability through the corners, increased levels of rear-end grip and just a little more go on the straights, this car is pulling more revs everywhere and can be turned into the corners with a little more speed

The above was shown when you look at the telemetry.

The Cup is a bit special and the lap times are significant.

Twit
 

Rich-D

ClioSport Club Member
  E90 LCI 330d


Quote: Originally posted by Twit on 25 February 2003


172 = 1.28.85

V6 = 1.28.45

Cup = 1.26.30

Track, bedford Autodrome
Nice! ;)



Ive got a test in a copy of CCC mag, where they raced a CTR against a 306 Rallye (both standard) round the 3 mile Avon Park test, to see which was quicker round a track...

Times are:

CTR - 2:31.95
Rallye - 2:30.35



Yup, the Rallye was 1.6secs a lap faster than the CTR, even though it has less power and is slower!!!

On the straights the CTR was quicker, but the 306 still won.



Theres a lot to be said for these "back to basics" stripped out versions! :D
 

KDF

  Audi TT Stronic


yes the 172 might be 2 seconds slower round the track .. but which one of us is going to be sweaty and smelly, and which one will come out cool and chilled ?

answers on a postcard to :

The cup driver is the sweaty one
PO Box NANAH

;)
 


NO NO NO

The 172 driver would be the sweaty one as to keep up he would have to have the air con turned off;) and you would make a mess of those nice seats:oops:
 


not argueing that the cup isnt faster....it is, deffo....BUT in HK where the aimbient temps are as high as 37 outside and up to 48 deg C inside.......i think aircon is a neccesity, hency why we are getting cups with an aircon.

An aircon can account for about 4-6% of an engines power depending on size of both. so, the power gain in the cup isnt a gain, its a reduction in accesory consumption...even if the aircon aint there, its still spining it.

I highly highly highly doubt doubt doubt that the actual ENGINE map for ignition, fueling, WOT and accelleration enrighment are any diff from a 172. Im ignoring the computer fiddly bits to do with aircon, abs, winscreen wipers, auto lights and wipers etc etc....

Why, simply because since the parameters ARE so easy to change, why bother having 2 production lines making 2 flippin ecus......economies of scale.

And if they did develop the new map for the cup, then it will auto matically be sent to dealers to update the 172s are we get a new patch every few months when they come in for a service. and the current best map will be used in all current production cars.

End result, its no diff........they just wouldnt bother....if they cant get rid of the clunking noise, why should they bother with the ECU....lol
 


End result, its no diff........they just wouldnt bother....if they cant get rid of the clunking noise, why should they bother with the ECU....lol

LOL!!! Agreed!!!
 


i think Rob Johnston (i think!!?? soz mate) mentioned that they will be comming in sometime this year!??

But Ren refused to let us call it the cup!!!! cause they say it aint!

so, possibly the mug, beirkeller, thermos? i dunno Ren are muppets sometimes...infact, most of the time....youll be surprised to see how many LHD cars we get eventhough we are a RHD system....sheesh
 


ECU hasn a diffent part no - it is diffenr coz of all the items theyve dropped from the spec - and all electrical items are goverend by the ecu, the higher acceleration times to 60 and 100 and ingear times and those proven by EVO and countless other mags, prove to me anywaythat the cups ecu has been tweaked coz there aint no way an 89kg lighter car will accelerate quicker to 60 and 100 by the margin the cup does - 6.5 as standard and 16.9 to 100 standard? I dont really care anyway, as the Grp N ecu will be inserted soon and then I know itll be different from a 172 and a cup!
 


but there is no logic behind the change.

Why should the cup get a diff map than the 172, surely they will just add it to the 172 aswell.....

What i did find interesting was a possible change in MK1 and MK2 gear ratios.

My MK2 goes to 7750rpm, after the tweeks.

Anyway, when drag racing a MK1 he had a VERY loud exhaust so i could hear every change and rpm form his car (had my window open to enjoy the sound).

Anyway, i was changing off the limter (using the cut which didnt always work lol) and so that , means a theoretical change everytime at 7750. his std MK1 i guess he was changing at a max of 7000-7250 as i never heard a cut. Yet, he pulled away about a car length over the entire stip (not measured) yet i changed up earlier at higher rpm and he beat me......

So, me at 7750 in 2nd at the limiter is slower than him at 7250 in the same gear!!??

weird......
 


Yaeh but htats liek saying the cup and 172 are the same - its not, the Williams was differn from the 16V for that very reason - the cup is another step up from the 172 and another money making marketing tool for Renault headquarters! If it was to be the same as the 172 then they wouldnt have launched another 172 in just a different coliour - it has differnces below its skin to make it diffenrt - minor yes but thats what tweakings all about - its like changing your side repeaters to clear ones - make sit differne t from the rest dont it! Whether the ecu is the same or not, the car as a whole is a differnt car, it costs less, has diffenrt detailing and is called a diffent name , now we can debate this till your blue in the face, but at the end of the day, when a cup and 172 pull up beside each other , the person behind is looking at two differnet cars..............
 


Top