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yeah it does state on the cup web site remaped ECU? prehaps they just got rid of the lid to save weight!
Rich-D
ClioSport Club Member
E90 LCI 330d
i tell a lie it dosent!! arrhh ive been fooled all along!
My take on this is there is something different in the Cup, you only have to drive one to tell that.
However, the major point that is not spoken about much is the suspension /steering, that IS different to the 172 and makes the Cup feel like a different animal. It roles less, turns in quicker and is less likely to cause lift off oversteer (this maybe good or bad depending on personal choice!). These are the changes that make it quicker cross country or on the track, that has been proved by a few road tests. Autocar said the Cup was much more naughty than the 172 and Evo tested it as 2 seconds quicker round Bedford with a racing driver. Basically you paythe money and make your choice. I do think that there is a element of Cup sl*gging from standard 172 owners that smacks of jealousy! (stands back!!!). I dont know how mnay times I have heard about he lack of thisand lack of that - so what, the Cup IS a better car!!!!! LOL!
If I was Renault however, whenit comes to Cup extras - if they ever come! I would only sell them to registered Cup owners, therefore, maintaining the Cup brand.
Twit (removes tongue form cheek!)
The thing is some you are all saying, "Yes it has a different ECU." But I dont think many of you would know a new ECU if it hit you in the face!
If the only thing that is different is the throttle response, then the acceleration fueling parameters may be marginally different, but I doubt it. If it was the case though, how many of you would know that the response you get was down to the ECU? How many of you even know what accelerative fueling is (not you BenR - I know you know)?
The weight saving is enough to make a difference in almost every aspect of the cars characteristics. I doubt it is anything else to be honest.
What was the lap time for the Cup and the standard 172 then???
172 = 1.28.85
V6 = 1.28.45
Cup = 1.26.30
Track, bedford Autodrome
Driver, Rick pearson, Clio V6 race driver
Pretty conclusive really, EVO issue 50. Pearsons comment:
would I pay more for a Clio Cup over a standard 172? Yes, but I dont have to!
on the track the cup has more stability through the corners, increased levels of rear-end grip and just a little more go on the straights, this car is pulling more revs everywhere and can be turned into the corners with a little more speed
The above was shown when you look at the telemetry.
The Cup is a bit special and the lap times are significant.
Twit
Rich-D
ClioSport Club Member
E90 LCI 330d
Nice!
Ive got a test in a copy of CCC mag, where they raced a CTR against a 306 Rallye (both standard) round the 3 mile Avon Park test, to see which was quicker round a track...
Times are:
CTR - 2:31.95
Rallye - 2:30.35
Yup, the Rallye was 1.6secs a lap faster than the CTR, even though it has less power and is slower!!!
On the straights the CTR was quicker, but the 306 still won.
Theres a lot to be said for these "back to basics" stripped out versions!
NO NO NO
The 172 driver would be the sweaty one as to keep up he would have to have the air con turned off
and you would make a mess of those nice seatsnot argueing that the cup isnt faster....it is, deffo....BUT in HK where the aimbient temps are as high as 37 outside and up to 48 deg C inside.......i think aircon is a neccesity, hency why we are getting cups with an aircon.
An aircon can account for about 4-6% of an engines power depending on size of both. so, the power gain in the cup isnt a gain, its a reduction in accesory consumption...even if the aircon aint there, its still spining it.
I highly highly highly doubt doubt doubt that the actual ENGINE map for ignition, fueling, WOT and accelleration enrighment are any diff from a 172. Im ignoring the computer fiddly bits to do with aircon, abs, winscreen wipers, auto lights and wipers etc etc....
Why, simply because since the parameters ARE so easy to change, why bother having 2 production lines making 2 flippin ecus......economies of scale.
And if they did develop the new map for the cup, then it will auto matically be sent to dealers to update the 172s are we get a new patch every few months when they come in for a service. and the current best map will be used in all current production cars.
End result, its no diff........they just wouldnt bother....if they cant get rid of the clunking noise, why should they bother with the ECU....lol
i think Rob Johnston (i think!!?? soz mate) mentioned that they will be comming in sometime this year!??
But Ren refused to let us call it the cup!!!! cause they say it aint!
so, possibly the mug, beirkeller, thermos? i dunno Ren are muppets sometimes...infact, most of the time....youll be surprised to see how many LHD cars we get eventhough we are a RHD system....sheesh
ECU hasn a diffent part no - it is diffenr coz of all the items theyve dropped from the spec - and all electrical items are goverend by the ecu, the higher acceleration times to 60 and 100 and ingear times and those proven by EVO and countless other mags, prove to me anywaythat the cups ecu has been tweaked coz there aint no way an 89kg lighter car will accelerate quicker to 60 and 100 by the margin the cup does - 6.5 as standard and 16.9 to 100 standard? I dont really care anyway, as the Grp N ecu will be inserted soon and then I know itll be different from a 172 and a cup!
but there is no logic behind the change.
Why should the cup get a diff map than the 172, surely they will just add it to the 172 aswell.....
What i did find interesting was a possible change in MK1 and MK2 gear ratios.
My MK2 goes to 7750rpm, after the tweeks.
Anyway, when drag racing a MK1 he had a VERY loud exhaust so i could hear every change and rpm form his car (had my window open to enjoy the sound).
Anyway, i was changing off the limter (using the cut which didnt always work lol) and so that , means a theoretical change everytime at 7750. his std MK1 i guess he was changing at a max of 7000-7250 as i never heard a cut. Yet, he pulled away about a car length over the entire stip (not measured) yet i changed up earlier at higher rpm and he beat me......
So, me at 7750 in 2nd at the limiter is slower than him at 7250 in the same gear!!??
weird......
Yaeh but htats liek saying the cup and 172 are the same - its not, the Williams was differn from the 16V for that very reason - the cup is another step up from the 172 and another money making marketing tool for Renault headquarters! If it was to be the same as the 172 then they wouldnt have launched another 172 in just a different coliour - it has differnces below its skin to make it diffenrt - minor yes but thats what tweakings all about - its like changing your side repeaters to clear ones - make sit differne t from the rest dont it! Whether the ecu is the same or not, the car as a whole is a differnt car, it costs less, has diffenrt detailing and is called a diffent name , now we can debate this till your blue in the face, but at the end of the day, when a cup and 172 pull up beside each other , the person behind is looking at two differnet cars..............
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